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What should Chevy do at the deadline? V2.0 New and improved! Pls read OP

View Poll Results: What should he do?
Keep Hainsey and re-sign 40 37.74%
Keep Hainsey and let him walk 8 7.55%
Sell Hainsey for draft picks/prospects 46 43.40%
Sell Hainsey for roster players 26 24.53%
Keep Antropov and re-sign 29 27.36%
Keep Antropov and let him walk 14 13.21%
Sell Antropov for draft picks/prospects 47 44.34%
Sell Antropov for roster players 14 13.21%
Buy players with our draft picks/prospects 32 30.19%
Don't buy players with our draft picks/prospects 42 39.62%
Roster player trade not including Antropov/Hainsey 31 29.25%
Don't do a roster player trade 19 17.92%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-30-2013, 12:06 PM
  #51
Aries56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Yeah, no he did not, and no they did not. I am having trouble finding the stats, but he played like 3-4 games with Kane. And that 5 game stint where he scored 7 points was NOT with Kane.

Kane is so vastly overrated thanks to his speed and shot and Antropov is so vastly underrated thanks to his lack of speed and shot it is not even funny.

He's a 3rd liner. You don't expect 3rd liners to score every game. They are going to be streaky. If he was consistent he would not be a 3rd liner. You can do that with basically any 3rd liner in the league. Are people expecting 20g, 50pt production out of the 3rd line?

Even when he is not scoring Antropov's line has often been the most effective, even with snakebitten Tangradi and basically useless Wellwood. We build a real 3rd line around Antropov and some of the streakiness will dissappear. He is the key to us having even a 3rd line this year.

Seriously, name me a 3rd line in the NHL Antropov does not improve. It simply cannot be done.
Antro's assists:
1 goal by Ladd
1 goal by Little
5 goals by Kane *First one Feb 17th, most recently March 12* (Also, Antro's goal on March 26th was assisted by Kane and Burmi. They HAVE been playing on the same line throughout the year)
1 goal by Buff
1 goal by Stuart
1 goal by Wellwood
1 goal by Wright

What I find interesting was all Antro's points before Feb 17th, had Ladd and/or Little involved. Did he play on the top line when Noel was trying the Kane/Wheeler line? Forgot about that.

Also third lines....
Boston:
before Chris Kelly's injury, wasn't the line something like Caron - Kelly - Peverley? I would take any one of the three.

I'm not doubting Antropov's defensive capabilities, but it's scary seeing him trying to bring the puck into the offensive zone, or even try to cycle the puck.

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03-30-2013, 12:07 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I sure hope so....my fear is that like everyone else Mark and Evander won't be a match then what do you do with Scheifele? Mark seems very versatile and our best hope but Evander is a really tough fit for anyone.
Who have we really tried him with though? He looked just fine with Wheeler and Little last year. He has also shown good chemistry at past world chamionships with guys like Getzlaf, Perry and Eberle. I'm not to worried myself its not really surprising that he doesn't mesh with another shot first player in Oli and everyone else have been bottom 6 players.

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Old
03-30-2013, 12:36 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
All this talk about how Antropov is "not getting it done" as a 3rd liner. Complete BS. He is great defensively and adds something offensively, exactly what you want out of the 3rd liner.

For those saying we need more out of him (remember he is clearly a 3rd liner). He is 5th among Jets forwards in points. He would be 6th with LA. He would be 8th with CHI. He would be 8th with MTL. He would be 7th with BOS. Seems like he is producing exactly what you would expect out of him ANYWHERE.

Seems like he is producing just fine. He is an ideal 3rd liner. He needs to be locked up with a new contract NOT dealt.
Very fair points. If love to have him back too. Hopefully he sticks around at a fair price for all.

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Old
03-30-2013, 12:39 PM
  #54
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IMO Kane is just fine as a team player when he has line mates that can produce. Chemistry isn't an automatic thing.

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03-30-2013, 12:52 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Who have we really tried him with though? He looked just fine with Wheeler and Little last year. He has also shown good chemistry at past world chamionships with guys like Getzlaf, Perry and Eberle. I'm not to worried myself its not really surprising that he doesn't mesh with another shot first player in Oli and everyone else have been bottom 6 players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
IMO Kane is just fine as a team player when he has line mates that can produce. Chemistry isn't an automatic thing.
The thing is I believe it working ok right now and a "fit" with a new guy is not a sure thing. That is why i mentioned that I would prefer to not risk big money and term for a 2nd line player that might not fit and we would be forced to dump them onto the 3rd line. I would prefer to fill it from within next season or at least see what this off season brings when teams forced to make it under the new cap.

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Old
03-30-2013, 01:05 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Yeah, no he did not, and no they did not. I am having trouble finding the stats, but he played like 3-4 games with Kane. And that 5 game stint where he scored 7 points was NOT with Kane.

Kane is so vastly overrated thanks to his speed and shot and Antropov is so vastly underrated thanks to his lack of speed and shot it is not even funny.

He's a 3rd liner. You don't expect 3rd liners to score every game. They are going to be streaky. If he was consistent he would not be a 3rd liner. You can do that with basically any 3rd liner in the league. Are people expecting 20g, 50pt production out of the 3rd line?

Even when he is not scoring Antropov's line has often been the most effective, even with snakebitten Tangradi and basically useless Wellwood. We build a real 3rd line around Antropov and some of the streakiness will dissappear. He is the key to us having even a 3rd line this year.

Seriously, name me a 3rd line in the NHL Antropov does not improve. It simply cannot be done.
Antro w/ Kane = 1G 5A
Antro w/o Kane = 1G 4A

Antropov currently receives points per minute in the top 10% of 3rd line production (as in he's in the top 10% of regular players within 50-75 percentile scoring in the league)
Quote:
NameP/60LinePercentileRelCorsi
Ladd 3.09 1 0.07 10.4
Wheeler 2.58 1 0.28 00.4
Kane 2.01 1 0.88 04.2
Little 1.88 2 0.11 00.4
Antropov 1.42 3 0.10 -04.1
Burmistrov 1.19 3 0.68 07.8
Wellwood 1.07 3 0.97 02.5
Miettinen 1.03 4 0.05 -00.9
Jokinen 0.73 4 0.55 -02.9
Slater 0.54 4 0.68 -10.4
Tangradi 0.52 4 0.70 -02.8
Wright 0.42 4 0.74 -14.0
Thorburn 0.35 4 0.79 00.9
3rd in the team in primary assists per minute
Evander Kane has his highest G/60 when on the ice with Antropov than any other forward


I keep saying this but Burmistrov, Antropov and Wellwood are GREAT 3rd line players to have and Miettinen is an ok one, and you can do ok with a 3rd line player on a second line with a player like Kane on your second line...but the problem is Jokinen was suppose to be a legitimate top6 option and has failed there. Because of this, it has put more pressure on the other players.


Last edited by garret9: 03-30-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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Old
03-30-2013, 01:42 PM
  #57
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I'd resign Hainsey at market value. With his style I don't think his play will drop with age. I'd give him 4 years 15m. If he becomes replacable sometime along the contract trade him. There will always be a market for # 4 vet. We have cap space, and with the cap going down next year I don't see a contender being able to give Hainsey a large pay day. If Hainseys willing to negotiate with us and hasn't crossed us off his list I wouldn't trade him. If he has said he will not resign I would trade him for a first and nothing less. Otherwise Keep him for playoffs.

Antropov I'd resign or let walk. Not worth downgrading our roster today for the playoffs for what he'd return imo. Scheifele can have his spot next year

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03-30-2013, 01:50 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
The thing is I believe it working ok right now and a "fit" with a new guy is not a sure thing. That is why i mentioned that I would prefer to not risk big money and term for a 2nd line player that might not fit and we would be forced to dump them onto the 3rd line. I would prefer to fill it from within next season or at least see what this off season brings when teams forced to make it under the new cap.
I'd take the chance Kane meshing with another legit top 6 guy. Consistent scoring is an ongoing concern and will be even more so when things tighten up in the playoffs. The only player with a shot of cracking the top 6 from from within is Scheifele. Maybe Lowry one day but probably not next season.

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Old
03-30-2013, 02:11 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
I am assuming that the Jets will not be willing/able to re-sign Hainsey.

In that case, I think it makes sense to trade him for picks/prospects, as long as the selling price is high enough. For me, a pick in the top 40 this year would be enough return for him.

I am less interested in trading Antropov, since I don't think the return would be that great. However, if the return is good (I'd prefer a decent 3rd line forward prospect with size and speed), then I think the Jets should consider it. There would be nothing stopping them from re-signing him in the off-season anyway.

I would not favour trying to trade picks or prospects for a roster player right now. This is absolutely the worst time in terms of value for doing this.

I would always be open to the right trade of player for player, especially if it strengthens the forward position. However, I would not favour trading one of our more attractive pieces (Burmi or Buff) at this point in time. I think that the trade value for Burmi will be too low relative to his potential, and I still think that Buff is one of the few players in the league that can be a true playoff beast (though I still think that he needs to trim down a bit to continue to log big minutes, especially in the playoffs).
Agree with this. Will Ron Hainsey resign with the Jets? Most likely not. The negotiator will be testing the market and in the end, Jets will lose the Hainsey sweepstakes (heh). I rather see Hainsey traded then walk. He is in high demand since it seems like multiple teams are scouting him and will most likely get a pretty good return. With that being said, I know some think he is irreplaceable but what about Mark Stuart? They play pretty similar? Both are the stay home defensive type and are great on the PK. Mark Stuart last season blocked the most shots and now Hainsey has that title. Is it just me or do you think Stuart will step up to the challenge once Hainsey is gone? I don't know for sure but I honestly don't think Hainsey is completely irreplaceable as some of you think.

With Antropov, I do see the possibility of him re-signing instead of walking away and with that, I would risk keeping him around, plus I don't think there will be a good solid trade return for him and it will just be the Poni deal all over again (blech), ie. downgrade. He brings a lot of flexibility and versatility to the team. He can be brought up to the second line with Kane if needed and produce sufficiently when he is called upon and can also be a solid third liner. He is just a well rounded player and can chip in defensively and offensively. He will help the Jets in playoffs IMO. That and I would be super sad to see him leave the Jets =(

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03-30-2013, 02:20 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by JetsBeCool View Post
Agree with this. Will Ron Hainsey resign with the Jets? Most likely not. The negotiator will be testing the market and in the end, Jets will lose the Hainsey sweepstakes (heh). I rather see Hainsey traded then walk. He is in high demand since it seems like multiple teams are scouting him and will most likely get a pretty good return. With that being said, I know some think he is irreplaceable but what about Mark Stuart? They play pretty similar? Both are the stay home defensive type and are great on the PK. Mark Stuart last season blocked the most shots and now Hainsey has that title. Is it just me or do you think Stuart will step up to the challenge once Hainsey is gone? I don't know for sure but I honestly don't think Hainsey is completely irreplaceable as some of you think.

With Antropov, I do see the possibility of him re-signing instead of walking away and with that, I would risk keeping him around, plus I don't think there will be a good solid trade return for him and it will just be the Poni deal all over again (blech), ie. downgrade. He brings a lot of flexibility and versatility to the team. He can be brought up to the second line with Kane if needed and produce sufficiently when he is called upon and can also be a solid third liner. He is just a well rounded player and can chip in defensively and offensively. He will help the Jets in playoffs IMO. That and I would be super sad to see him leave the Jets =(
Don't think Stuart has too many fans around here these days. I wish they would play Kulda a game. He's a shutdown defenseman that could potentially replace Hainsey, but we'll never know until we actually see him play.

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03-30-2013, 02:24 PM
  #61
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I wish they would play Kulda as well

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03-30-2013, 02:54 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by JetsBeCool View Post
Agree with this. Will Ron Hainsey resign with the Jets? Most likely not. The negotiator will be testing the market and in the end, Jets will lose the Hainsey sweepstakes (heh). I rather see Hainsey traded then walk. He is in high demand since it seems like multiple teams are scouting him and will most likely get a pretty good return. With that being said, I know some think he is irreplaceable but what about Mark Stuart? They play pretty similar? Both are the stay home defensive type and are great on the PK. Mark Stuart last season blocked the most shots and now Hainsey has that title. Is it just me or do you think Stuart will step up to the challenge once Hainsey is gone? I don't know for sure but I honestly don't think Hainsey is completely irreplaceable as some of you think.

With Antropov, I do see the possibility of him re-signing instead of walking away and with that, I would risk keeping him around, plus I don't think there will be a good solid trade return for him and it will just be the Poni deal all over again (blech), ie. downgrade. He brings a lot of flexibility and versatility to the team. He can be brought up to the second line with Kane if needed and produce sufficiently when he is called upon and can also be a solid third liner. He is just a well rounded player and can chip in defensively and offensively. He will help the Jets in playoffs IMO. That and I would be super sad to see him leave the Jets =(
Stuart and Hainsey don't play the same game.

Hainsey is a better skater, better positionally and better decision maker. He usually directs traffic on the ice (especially Bogosian who's biggest achilles heal is his positioning in the D-zone). Hainsey tends to block due to being in the shooting lane at the right time.

Stuart meanwhile is basically a 4th line energy forward playing D. He is a good hitter and has no fear of blocking the shot but he has difficulty making the right decision like when to hit, when to block, when to stand up on the blue line, etc. Stuart tends to block because he gets pinned in the zone.

They both are considered defensive defensemen because neither are offensive catalysts, but that is where the comparison ends.

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03-30-2013, 03:07 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Stuart and Hainsey don't play the same game.

Hainsey is a better skater, better positionally and better decision maker. He usually directs traffic on the ice (especially Bogosian who's biggest achilles heal is his positioning in the D-zone). Hainsey tends to block due to being in the shooting lane at the right time.

Stuart meanwhile is basically a 4th line energy forward playing D. He is a good hitter and has no fear of blocking the shot but he has difficulty making the right decision like when to hit, when to block, when to stand up on the blue line, etc. Stuart tends to block because he gets pinned in the zone.

They both are considered defensive defensemen because neither are offensive catalysts, but that is where the comparison ends.
Ah I see. I do see the difference where Hainsey is the much smarter player. But with the Jets depth in D, is there really no replacement in the future? As some have commented, Kulda might work. I don't remember his play from last season. But I wonder why he hasn't been put in yet.

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03-30-2013, 04:29 PM
  #64
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The fact that St. Louis has dealt for Leopold, a lesser defensman, tells me that Hainsey is not on the market.

More to my sleep deprived post of last night. Antropov, given our current position I think the only reason we should deal him is for an upgrade at his current position. Dealing him for mid range picks makes absolutely zero sense. That being said, Antro is somewhat expendable. He brings alot to the table in terms of skill and IQ though. We'd be better off keeping him until something better presents it self.

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03-30-2013, 04:44 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by JetsBeCool View Post
Ah I see. I do see the difference where Hainsey is the much smarter player. But with the Jets depth in D, is there really no replacement in the future? As some have commented, Kulda might work. I don't remember his play from last season. But I wonder why he hasn't been put in yet.
I like Kulda. I'm higher on him than most, but less so than Holden

I think it's within his grasp to be a solid #4, but I'm not sure he's there yet.

That said, if they ain't playing him and getting him used to the game on the third pair, I'd doubt they are planning on putting him on the second pair in this season if possible.


Also, Melchiori and Yuen are possible contenders but they are both very long term projects.

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03-30-2013, 06:39 PM
  #66
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Dear Chevy,

We are not that good..... Don't believe the hype and be a seller at the deadline.

Thanks

Signed,
Chevy from the future

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03-30-2013, 08:05 PM
  #67
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What about something like this:

Hainsey to the Bruins for a 2nd or 3rd round pick and Torey Krug.

Or, Hainsey to the Wild for Jason Zucker and a mid-round pick.

It would be nice to get a guy back who can play sooner than later and still has some upside. In all likelihood, anybody we draft with a pick acquired for Hainsey won't be a factor for us until 2016 or 2017.

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03-30-2013, 08:18 PM
  #68
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Dear Chevy,

We are not that good..... Don't believe the hype and be a seller at the deadline.

Thanks

Signed,
Chevy from the future
Yes, let's just give up like the team. haha You guys are so out to lunch if you think a team builds a winning culture like that.

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03-30-2013, 08:23 PM
  #69
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Yes, let's just give up like the team. haha You guys are so out to lunch if you think a team builds a winning culture like that.
I have been saying this for weeks ;-) today's result has not hanged my mind one way or another.

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03-30-2013, 08:25 PM
  #70
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I have been saying this for weeks ;-) today's result has not hanged my mind one way or another.
Why would it? You clearly just want to sit at the bottom forever...

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03-30-2013, 08:27 PM
  #71
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It would be nice to get a guy back who can play sooner than later and still has some upside. In all likelihood, anybody we draft with a pick acquired for Hainsey won't be a factor for us until 2016 or 2017.

We prob won't be a very good team until about 2016 if this gs go according to plan..... So getting a player who can contribute around that time is ideal!


Last edited by Jet: 03-31-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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03-30-2013, 08:30 PM
  #72
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Why would it? You clearly just want to sit at the bottom forever...
I feel I'm being realistic of where our team is right now.... Some may think we are good enough to win a round or two in the playoffs now.... Sorry I do not agree but I do wish this was not the case as we are a bubble team at best

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03-30-2013, 08:35 PM
  #73
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I feel I'm being realistic of where our team is right now.... Some may think we are good enough to win a round or two in the playoffs now.... Sorry I do not agree but I do wish this was not the case as we are a bubble team at best
I think I'm realistic.

We're a very barely above average team that could win a round or two because it isn't that rare for the weaker team to win.

It's happened before and could again.

I also believe that any movement that isn't forward is backwards, as long as you are not mortgaging the future.

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03-30-2013, 08:37 PM
  #74
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I feel I'm being realistic of where our team is right now.... Some may think we are good enough to win a round or two in the playoffs now.... Sorry I do not agree but I do wish this was not the case as we are a bunch blend team at best
You're not being realistic at all. You're actually being pessimistic. You seem to completely ignore that we picked in the top 5 twice and once in the top 10 before getting a team in Winnipeg. Going by your assumption we should pick in the top 10 for 6-7 years or more before we can be good enough to compete. That's crazy to have that mentality. We have guys entering their prime now and guys that are on the brink of it with others that was still budding. The team is currently leading the division(despite to lackluster efforts) and yet we won't to start selling and suck it up? How anyone can fathom giving up is beyond me... I really don't think some understand how you build a winning culture. I can tell you for sure I know how you DON'T do that, and it's not by giving up. This team has done enough of that over the years. It's time to have a higher standard. Being a bottom 10 team is nothing to be proud of.

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03-30-2013, 08:57 PM
  #75
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I think I'm realistic.

We're a very barely above average team that could win a round or two because it isn't that rare for the weaker team to win.

It's happened before and could again.

I also believe that any movement that isn't forward is backwards, as long as you are not mortgaging the future.
I get where your coming from and I agree that we should be making moves with an eye on the now and future at the same time. Where I differ is that I don't believe that the trade deadline is the time to do it. You have a limited number of teams looking to sell which inflates value. Not only that selling teams are rarely looking at getting rid of their young assets which is what Chevy will most likely be looking at.

If the value is right I think you have to trade players on expiring contracts who wont be back. If Hainsy wants to resign then by all means get it done, but if he's let management know that he wont be back the prudent thing is to move him if we can get back a good asset for him.

This isn't me giving up on the season or me wanting to be a priennial bottom feeder, its just me thinking that it is far better for Chevy to have a number of draft picks going into this summer not only so that he can draft a couple of bluechippers but also so he has the ability to take advantage of a lowering cap to possibly get some ready to play players that cap teams can no longer afford. Cheap assets like draft picks may carry a lot more weight this year due to that and also do to this being a deep draft.

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