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Old
03-30-2013, 10:56 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by OzzieFleaSlash View Post
Yeah but did Bernier win the cup last year? They should just never play him or let him prove himself as a goaltender, even though all those years in the minors management kept telling he'd earn his shot.
And this is where we as a group have conflicting opinions. Quick won us the cup last year. He also had off season back surgery and is now statistically one of the worst starting goalies in hockey. Bernier has faced the same opposition and has tore it up. The loyal Quick fans believe he deserves to play every game while some of us feel he needs rest. I doubt anyone wants Bernier to be the playoff goalie or our goalie of the future. But we should not be barked at when we critique Quick's current play.

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03-30-2013, 10:57 PM
  #177
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He didn't blame them for the loss though.
Do you really think a player is going to come out in the media and throw a teammate under the bus or completely blame the refs? Come on.

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03-30-2013, 10:58 PM
  #178
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And this is where we as a group have conflicting opinions. Quick won us the cup last year. He also had off season back surgery and is now statistically one of the worst starting goalies in hockey. Bernier has faced the same opposition and has tore it up. The loyal Quick fans believe he deserves to play every game while some of us feel he needs rest. I doubt anyone wants Quick to be the playoff goalie or our goalie of the future. But we should not be barked at when we critique Quick's current play.
No problem with saying he is off his game, But trade the guy ? Bench him the rest of the season ?

Blame him for losses in where the team pretty much crapped the bed.

Quick didn't even play that bad today.

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03-30-2013, 10:58 PM
  #179
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Sutter's doing the right thing in sticking with him. You can't make a cup run with an unproven guy like Bernier. I do believe JB needs a a few more starts sprinkled in. Quick seems to look good for a couple games and then has a questionable one. The pattern has been set so you'd think he's get more rests after back surgery.
Does anyone remember Cam Ward?

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03-30-2013, 10:59 PM
  #180
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He didn't blame them for the loss though.
You really think a player would tell the media that?

A player will say that they need to kill the penalty and it is not the refs fault that they failed to kill the penalty.

That's a big comment from Kopitar about the missed four minute penalty when it was 3-2 for the kings.

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03-30-2013, 11:00 PM
  #181
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Bernier should play tomorrow. No doubt. Quick has played quite a few games in a row and it's a back to back. I have no problem with Bernier playing every once in awhile but the suggestions to bench him and blaming him completely for the loss tonight is what bugs me. There were plenty of odd man rushes and twice where a player skated around our defense to go one on one on Quick. That needs to be fixed.

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03-30-2013, 11:00 PM
  #182
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You really think a player would tell the media that?

A player will say that they need to kill the penalty and it's is not the refs fault that they failed to kill the penalty.

That's a big comment from Kopitar about the missed four minute penalty when it was 3-2 for the kings.
The Refs make mistakes, Everyone knows that, We really going to blame the Refs for losing that game ?

I thought you guys were passed that.

Didn't we tell fans of other teams to suck it up last year ?

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03-30-2013, 11:01 PM
  #183
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Shots against is a worthless stat. Quality chances is where the difference is, but whatever.
Shots against are strongly correlated with scoring chances. They've tracked different teams and no one's been able to find a discrepancy over a large sample. The Kings scoring chances against this season are are also low.

I do feel for Quick right now, though. It's understandable he's going through a rough patch after such an injury. He puts a lot of pressure on himself.

He'll get back there.

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03-30-2013, 11:01 PM
  #184
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Do you really think a player is going to come out in the media and throw a teammate under the bus or completely blame the refs? Come on.
Stoner had a high stick to the face without a call. Don't think for a second that it was completely one-sided.

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03-30-2013, 11:04 PM
  #185
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Does anyone remember Cam Ward?
dont even have to go back that far, niemi.

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03-30-2013, 11:06 PM
  #186
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And this is where we as a group have conflicting opinions. Quick won us the cup last year. He also had off season back surgery and is now statistically one of the worst starting goalies in hockey. Bernier has faced the same opposition and has tore it up. The loyal Quick fans believe he deserves to play every game while some of us feel he needs rest. I doubt anyone wants Quick to be the playoff goalie or our goalie of the future. But we should not be barked at when we critique Quick's current play.
The problem with generalizing is that you always end up wrong in one way or another.

I am a Quick loyalist and I don't believe that he should play every game at all and do believe that we need to give him more rest then he is getting but then I am not running around whining like a child (not saying you are) and blaming JQ for all of our troubles and damning everyone who understands that it is going to take time and game play to get his back back to 100%.

Criticizing JQ is fine. He is as frustrated with what he is going through as most of us are and he is just going to have to be given the starts that he needs to get things back on track. It is going to be hit and miss as he does so until then we are just going to have to eat it.

JQ when 100% is one of the top two or three goalies in the game so giving him time and support while he gets his game back is not only the right thing to do but it is also the smart thing to do.

That said I would be playing JB more than DS has but he is the NHL coach, not me. Its frustrating to watch JQ fight the puck but it is going to happen. Like I said before even at 60% JQ is winning his share of games so it isn't like it is killing our playoff chances by giving his time.

Also what else can we do? We can't send him down so he is going to have to get his starts with the big club so when he struggles its going to take extra effort by everyone to win.

Also, anyone who doesn't think that missing our #1 d doesn't effect JQ's game is a completely lost child. (again, not directed at you)

No Greene and no WM is going to have a huge impact and I don't see any solutions being presented by the whining set, just whining.


Even then, its all going to be alright. We are playing solidly as a team and while we aren't where we need to be we are getting there and I am certain that if JQ is still struggling when the playoffs start that we will see JB take over.

Meh, whatever.

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03-30-2013, 11:07 PM
  #187
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Stoner had a high stick to the face without a call. Don't think for a second that it was completely one-sided.
I am actually shocked people care this much.

Had Williams not scored the PP's would have been 3 to 4 in favor of Minny.

That's not really something to get worked up over.

Maybe I am wrong

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03-30-2013, 11:07 PM
  #188
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Realistically with our current defense we need Bernier, when our Defense is healthy you play Quick. Our defense is young as hell so they freeze when there is a rebound and it's usually put in. Bernier doesn't leave rebounds or he angles it well.

Thing is when our defense is Healthy mitchell and Greene kept the crease clear and made it hard for the players to get a second chance which makes quick look bad since we can't so he loses confidence and you can tell. Our defense as of now needs bernier he doesn't challenge our unexperienced defense as bad.

Quick isn't bad, he looks good physically, he just isn't right for this current defense.

Bernier now. Healthy defense with experience to help quick then Quick.


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03-30-2013, 11:10 PM
  #189
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And this is where we as a group have conflicting opinions. Quick won us the cup last year. He also had off season back surgery and is now statistically one of the worst starting goalies in hockey. Bernier has faced the same opposition and has tore it up. The loyal Quick fans believe he deserves to play every game while some of us feel he needs rest. I doubt anyone wants Bernier to be the playoff goalie or our goalie of the future. But we should not be barked at when we critique Quick's current play.
This is exactly how I feel. Quick is our goalie, he will get the majority of the starts, and I want him in net in the playoffs. I also know that he needs to play better and don't feel that any player is above criticism

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03-30-2013, 11:18 PM
  #190
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YES MY BROTHER!!!
PREACH!!!
WITNESS!!!
I am feeling your dog and it feels good.
GO KINGS GO!!!!!
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The problem with generalizing is ... Meh, whatever.
Dude ... one of these days ... the first Beer is on me

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03-30-2013, 11:19 PM
  #191
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Boy. You always call out fans here. You always call out fans in the stands. We get it. You're better than us. In you own words "they are idiots".
I find it disturbing that so many jump on Quick unfairly, especially since the guy brought us our first and only Cup in 45 ******* years.

But that's just me.

I never said I was better than anyone. Stop mischaracterizing my statements. Stick to debating the posts, not the posters. That's the rule of thumb here.

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03-30-2013, 11:20 PM
  #192
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Dude ... one of these days ... the first Beer is on me
You gotta a major bromance going on with TG, don't ya?

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03-30-2013, 11:22 PM
  #193
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I find it disturbing that so many jump on Quick unfairly, especially since the guy brought us our first and only Cup in 45 ******* years.

But that's just me.

I never said I was better than anyone. Stop mischaracterizing my statements. Stick to debating the posts, not the posters. That's the rule of thumb here.
well you did say you felt embarrassed for some of us......

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03-30-2013, 11:23 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
The Refs make mistakes, Everyone knows that, We really going to blame the Refs for losing that game ?

I thought you guys were passed that.

Didn't we tell fans of other teams to suck it up last year ?
Referees miss at least 10 calls a game. They are human. It happens.

I have no problem with missed calls. Part of the game.

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03-30-2013, 11:24 PM
  #195
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well you did say you felt embarrassed for some of us......
I am.

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03-30-2013, 11:26 PM
  #196
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I call it like I see it, yeah I'm loyal to Quick, but that doesn't mean I overlook his faults. The guy isn't playing great but I'm not laying the blame for this loss at his feet. I don't think those were soft goals. JB should be playing more here and there. Monday would have been a good time for that, but he didn't play and we won even though Quick didn't play well that night. JB should play this week too with another back to back coming up, and depending on Quick's performance on Tuesday, perhaps Thursday's game as well. In any case, Jonathan Quick does not pick the team, he does not pick who starts. So blaming him for Bernier not playing doesn't sit well with me. Even a Stanley Cup winning coach is capable of being wrong at times and Sutter may be judged as such in this case.

5 out of 6 points on any road trip against 3 playoff teams is good. We aren't going to get perfection. Quick's rebound control tonight was good and he saw the puck well. The only thing I saw during regulation that concerned me was a bit of jitters when the puck came flying off the boards, but hey, none of those went in.

I do believe that having guys like Ellerby in the lineup is ultimately a detriment to the team. He doesn't use his size very well and gives the puck away a lot. Not in the traditional turnover sense, but with aimless passes out of his defensive zone gifting the puck right to the opponents without dragging them back into their own zone. I'm not a big fan of that. Some of the other guys haven't been too great either but I think the games this week were much better in terms of that.

What pisses me off is people saying hey trade the guy. If Kopitar went into this season on his bum ankle and wasn't able to produce I'm starting to believe those people would say similar things, and that worries me a little to be quite honest. I would think we are capable of being more rational. Quick should be judged like any other player playing through an injury. That doesn't mean free pass, that means not going overboard. To me anyway.

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03-30-2013, 11:28 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
I call it like I see it, yeah I'm loyal to Quick, but that doesn't mean I overlook his faults. The guy isn't playing great but I'm not laying the blame for this loss at his feet. I don't think those were soft goals. JB should be playing more here and there. Monday would have been a good time for that, but he didn't play and we won even though Quick didn't play well that night. JB should play this week too with another back to back coming up, and depending on Quick's performance on Tuesday, perhaps Thursday's game as well. In any case, Jonathan Quick does not pick the team, he does not pick who starts. So blaming him for Bernier not playing doesn't sit well with me. Even a Stanley Cup winning coach is capable of being wrong at times and Sutter may be judged as such in this case.

5 out of 6 points on any road trip against 3 playoff teams is good. We aren't going to get perfection. Quick's rebound control tonight was good and he saw the puck well. The only thing I saw during regulation that concerned me was a bit of jitters when the puck came flying off the boards, but hey, none of those went in.

I do believe that having guys like Ellerby in the lineup is ultimately a detriment to the team. He doesn't use his size very well and gives the puck away a lot. Not in the traditional turnover sense, but with aimless passes out of his defensive zone gifting the puck right to the opponents without dragging them back into their own zone. I'm not a big fan of that.

What pisses me off is people saying hey trade the guy. If Kopitar went into this season on his bum ankle and wasn't able to produce I'm starting to believe those people would say similar things, and that worries me a little to be quite honest. I would think we are capable of being more rational.
Or Richards...Ooof

His brutal start brought out the worst in people. People wanted him gone.

Look at the 180 Stoll has done, although one mistake will put him right back to whipping boy status.

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03-30-2013, 11:32 PM
  #198
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What pisses me off is people saying hey trade the guy. If Kopitar went into this season on his bum ankle and wasn't able to produce I'm starting to believe those people would say similar things, and that worries me a little to be quite honest. I would think we are capable of being more rational.
Yeah, but that's your fault for giving too much credit to the irrational posters.

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03-30-2013, 11:35 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
I call it like I see it, yeah I'm loyal to Quick, but that doesn't mean I overlook his faults. The guy isn't playing great but I'm not laying the blame for this loss at his feet. I don't think those were soft goals. JB should be playing more here and there. Monday would have been a good time for that, but he didn't play and we won even though Quick didn't play well that night. JB should play this week too with another back to back coming up, and depending on Quick's performance on Tuesday, perhaps Thursday's game as well. In any case, Jonathan Quick does not pick the team, he does not pick who starts. So blaming him for Bernier not playing doesn't sit well with me. Even a Stanley Cup winning coach is capable of being wrong at times and Sutter may be judged as such in this case.

5 out of 6 points on any road trip against 3 playoff teams is good. We aren't going to get perfection. Quick's rebound control tonight was good and he saw the puck well. The only thing I saw during regulation that concerned me was a bit of jitters when the puck came flying off the boards, but hey, none of those went in.

I do believe that having guys like Ellerby in the lineup is ultimately a detriment to the team. He doesn't use his size very well and gives the puck away a lot. Not in the traditional turnover sense, but with aimless passes out of his defensive zone gifting the puck right to the opponents without dragging them back into their own zone. I'm not a big fan of that. Some of the other guys haven't been too great either but I think the games this week were much better in terms of that.

What pisses me off is people saying hey trade the guy. If Kopitar went into this season on his bum ankle and wasn't able to produce I'm starting to believe those people would say similar things, and that worries me a little to be quite honest. I would think we are capable of being more rational. Quick should be judged like any other player playing through an injury. That doesn't mean free pass, that means not going overboard. To me anyway.
QFT. Amen, brother. Common sense. Some here can learn by gaining some perspective.

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03-30-2013, 11:42 PM
  #200
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Shots against are strongly correlated with scoring chances. They've tracked different teams and no one's been able to find a discrepancy over a large sample. The Kings scoring chances against this season are are also low.

I do feel for Quick right now, though. It's understandable he's going through a rough patch after such an injury. He puts a lot of pressure on himself.

He'll get back there.
I'm sorry, but no. The kings quality scoring chances against are way up from last year.

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