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What should Chevy do at the deadline? V2.0 New and improved! Pls read OP

View Poll Results: What should he do?
Keep Hainsey and re-sign 40 37.74%
Keep Hainsey and let him walk 8 7.55%
Sell Hainsey for draft picks/prospects 46 43.40%
Sell Hainsey for roster players 26 24.53%
Keep Antropov and re-sign 29 27.36%
Keep Antropov and let him walk 14 13.21%
Sell Antropov for draft picks/prospects 47 44.34%
Sell Antropov for roster players 14 13.21%
Buy players with our draft picks/prospects 32 30.19%
Don't buy players with our draft picks/prospects 42 39.62%
Roster player trade not including Antropov/Hainsey 31 29.25%
Don't do a roster player trade 19 17.92%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:58 PM
  #76
AndersUlfBobby
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I just voted for all the options, but I'm PISSED OFF with the Jets today. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm so upset.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:59 PM
  #77
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We are really in 8th place and the teams behind us have games in hand ......the only reason for any optimism is the south east division is the joke of the NHL

I watch this team and just don't see the talent to outplay or the deep desire to out work more talented opposition

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Old
03-30-2013, 09:00 PM
  #78
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We have $13 million in cap space. With a decent finish, we're in the playoffs. I don't know why we wouldn't make a trade for a legitimate top 6 player, given that we only have 4 of them.

I wouldn't go for a pure rental UFA but someone with a couple years left on their contract. Here's a list of available top 6 guys that have one or more years on their contract:

Mike Cammelleri: 11G, 14A, 25 PTS; one year left @ $7 million (NTC)
Jason Pominville: 10G, 13A, 23 PTS; one year left @ $5.3 million (NTC)
Drew Stafford: 5G, 8A, 13 PTS; two years left @ 4 million
Paul Statsny: 8G, 11A, 19 PTS; one year left @ $6.6 million
Danny Briere: 5G, 8A, 13 PTS; two years left @ $2.5 million ($6.5 cap hit) (NTC)
Matt Read: 7G, 8A, 15 PTS; two years @ 900,000

-------

Obviously, each guy is going to have a different market value. I tend to think Burmistrov plus a 2nd or two 2nds get us in the door for most of these guys. Less for Briere, Stafford and Read.

Thoughts?

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Old
03-30-2013, 11:28 PM
  #79
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I have a feeling that the Kubalik for Machacek trade was our big trade deadline deal.

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Old
03-31-2013, 12:45 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surge1979 View Post
We have $13 million in cap space. With a decent finish, we're in the playoffs. I don't know why we wouldn't make a trade for a legitimate top 6 player, given that we only have 4 of them.

I wouldn't go for a pure rental UFA but someone with a couple years left on their contract. Here's a list of available top 6 guys that have one or more years on their contract:

Mike Cammelleri: 11G, 14A, 25 PTS; one year left @ $7 million (NTC)
Jason Pominville: 10G, 13A, 23 PTS; one year left @ $5.3 million (NTC)
Drew Stafford: 5G, 8A, 13 PTS; two years left @ 4 million
Paul Statsny: 8G, 11A, 19 PTS; one year left @ $6.6 million
Danny Briere: 5G, 8A, 13 PTS; two years left @ $2.5 million ($6.5 cap hit) (NTC)
Matt Read: 7G, 8A, 15 PTS; two years @ 900,000

-------

Obviously, each guy is going to have a different market value. I tend to think Burmistrov plus a 2nd or two 2nds get us in the door for most of these guys. Less for Briere, Stafford and Read.

Thoughts?
I think we'll watch as some of those you named get moved to competing teams for a "price" that leaves us scratching our heads why the Jets couldn't have landed the player in question for a similar offer.

Then we'll hear more about how disappointing the finish to the season was and how standards need to be raised next year, here's a 2% increase, etc....

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Old
03-31-2013, 01:02 AM
  #81
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If our strategy is to draft and develop, shouldn't we wait until at least one single player drafted under this regime makes it to the NHL before we abandon that strategy and sell futures for help now? Unless people are talking about trading roster players for other roster players which fills a hole by creating another.

It's amazing to me how impatient people have gotten partway through a shortened second season. I've taken heat plenty already for saying this, but I'll say it again anyway - our depth throughout the entire organization is not nearly where it needs to be to start making moves to squeak into the playoffs. We are not yet at the point where merely making the playoffs will allow us to take the next step.

The next 4 months are critical for defining the trajectory of this franchise in my opinion.

...or maybe we just need to play a few playoff games and we'll magically become a contender based on that experience.

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Old
03-31-2013, 01:03 AM
  #82
JC Numminen
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Thoughts on what burmi a 2nd and a 5th could get us? Would it get us a top 6?

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Old
03-31-2013, 01:30 AM
  #83
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in theory its a lot.

but at the same time its not going to fetch us a star thats performing

our ideal trade situation is something along the lines of what we did with tangradi...

package some picks for someone with upside, that is maybe having an off year or needs a change of scenery.

thats the type of move i can see us making. obviously tangradi hasnt set the world on fire. but there are other players like that, that are arguably underperforming or not living up to the hype that we could be willing to take a chance on

the only way we get a bonifide scorer or playmaker is by dealing either our 1st or a decent roster player.. which i dont see happening,, its not worth it for a young team like us

however i still think we should be looking to improve, even if we only see a small move or two.

i really wish we could get a look at kulda. i honestly think that would shore up the debate one way or another on whether its feasible to move hainsey without suffering TOO much THIS season

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Old
03-31-2013, 02:27 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
If our strategy is to draft and develop, shouldn't we wait until at least one single player drafted under this regime makes it to the NHL before we abandon that strategy and sell futures for help now? Unless people are talking about trading roster players for other roster players which fills a hole by creating another.

It's amazing to me how impatient people have gotten partway through a shortened second season. I've taken heat plenty already for saying this, but I'll say it again anyway - our depth throughout the entire organization is not nearly where it needs to be to start making moves to squeak into the playoffs. We are not yet at the point where merely making the playoffs will allow us to take the next step.

The next 4 months are critical for defining the trajectory of this franchise in my opinion.



...or maybe we just need to play a few playoff games and we'll magically become a contender based on that experience.
Agreed, well said!

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Old
03-31-2013, 02:36 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
If our strategy is to draft and develop, shouldn't we wait until at least one single player drafted under this regime makes it to the NHL before we abandon that strategy and sell futures for help now? Unless people are talking about trading roster players for other roster players which fills a hole by creating another.

It's amazing to me how impatient people have gotten partway through a shortened second season. I've taken heat plenty already for saying this, but I'll say it again anyway - our depth throughout the entire organization is not nearly where it needs to be to start making moves to squeak into the playoffs. We are not yet at the point where merely making the playoffs will allow us to take the next step.

The next 4 months are critical for defining the trajectory of this franchise in my opinion.

...or maybe we just need to play a few playoff games and we'll magically become a contender based on that experience.
But here's the thing...this is NOT the second season. That's the key point here.

This rebuild is 5 years in the making already (starting in 07-08). That's when it started. Just because the team moved does not mean anything changes in that regard.

Very few, if anybody, is suggesting we start selling off futures to take a run this year. We are clearly not at the stage where we are true Stanley Cup contenders. However with a core that is already peaking or peaked, it is time to take at least the first step. Organizational depth can built along the way. But it is important to remember the many steps that a franchise takes to become an elite team. This core has no more time for losing, we've been stuck in first gear for far too long.

....or maybe we just need to sell sell sell every year and we'll magically become a contender from nowhere.

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03-31-2013, 02:45 AM
  #86
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This is one hell of a response. Within 24 hours 70+ people voted and 4+ pages of replies.

It's pretty clear there's quite a variation in ideas of what the fans of this club think Chevy should do. There's no right or wrong answer, as all answers seem to have some sort of justification.

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Old
03-31-2013, 02:59 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
This rebuild is 5 years in the making already (starting in 07-08). That's when it started. Just because the team moved does not mean anything changes in that regard.
I don't think we can think in terms of a rebuild, or a timeline for a rebuild. We should simply make the best decision at every fork in the road. Our situation is unique, and a rebuild in another location may or may not work here.

Ownership and management has changed from a "win now at any cost" to a "let's do things the right way" mentality. Bogosian, Kane, Burmistrov were all rushed in the year that they were drafted. It's safe to say all three could've used more development time. We're still seeing the effects of them being pushed into the NHL. Burmi in the dog house is a direct result of that.

It's clear proper development of prospects is becoming more important than ever, especially with the new CBA. The problem is our current NHL youngsters weren't developed properly. So in order to switch from a "win now" to a "draft and develop" model we need to have a 2-3 year gap in which we don't even touch anyone younger than 21 in our prospect pool. This creates a black hole where we aren't allowed to tap in young elite talent for quite a while. Our club may suffer short term from this. Hopefully we can fill any holes with UFA, and possibly flip those UFA players for picks if things don't work out.

Even in 3 years our core is still valid. It may have changed a bit, but we'd be nowhere near the situation that Vancouver or San Jose is in. Our oldest key player right now is 28.

My point is there's no ticking clock for us. Thinking that way just results in short term fixes to win now that end up costing us long term.

We have 10 draft picks this year and 8 next year, and management has invested very heavily in scouting the draft. I also think under the new CBA we will be able to spend closer to the cap, but I don't think we ever will in order to have flexibility.

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03-31-2013, 04:52 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
But here's the thing...this is NOT the second season. That's the key point here.

This rebuild is 5 years in the making already (starting in 07-08). That's when it started. Just because the team moved does not mean anything changes in that regard.

Very few, if anybody, is suggesting we start selling off futures to take a run this year. We are clearly not at the stage where we are true Stanley Cup contenders. However with a core that is already peaking or peaked, it is time to take at least the first step. Organizational depth can built along the way. But it is important to remember the many steps that a franchise takes to become an elite team. This core has no more time for losing, we've been stuck in first gear for far too long.

....or maybe we just need to sell sell sell every year and we'll magically become a contender from nowhere.
I don't think it's fair to hold the current ownership/management accountable for anything preceding last year. I don't care how long the "rebuild" has been going on. We inherited a young team with a few good pieces and almost zero depth. That can't be fixed in a year or two.

When True North got this team and said they're going to draft and develop, I don't think they were looking at a 2 year timeline. Can't we reserve judgement until at least one of their draftees is actually on the NHL roster?

I'm very curious why you think the core "is peaking or has peaked". I look at the key pieces and say we have 3 or 4 years until they are in their prime (almost all our major pieces will still be under 30).

I'm fully on board with your opinion that playoff experience and winning is a necessary step. I just don't think it magically cures the flaws of this team. What Florida did last year is very similar to what we might do this year (win the division and get into the playoffs with a mediocre team). That experience certainly didn't help them this year. I'm not saying it's the perfect analogy but it certainly shows that making the step to get into the playoffs in no way guarantees anything the next season.

Edit: Allan5oh makes a good point that the timing of draftees joining the team has changed, leaving us without for these last 2 years. Hopefully we go back to adding young skill to the roster next year with Schief at the very least.


Last edited by Stej: 03-31-2013 at 04:59 AM.
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Old
03-31-2013, 08:12 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
I don't think we can think in terms of a rebuild, or a timeline for a rebuild. We should simply make the best decision at every fork in the road. Our situation is unique, and a rebuild in another location may or may not work here.

Ownership and management has changed from a "win now at any cost" to a "let's do things the right way" mentality. Bogosian, Kane, Burmistrov were all rushed in the year that they were drafted. It's safe to say all three could've used more development time. We're still seeing the effects of them being pushed into the NHL. Burmi in the dog house is a direct result of that.

It's clear proper development of prospects is becoming more important than ever, especially with the new CBA. The problem is our current NHL youngsters weren't developed properly. So in order to switch from a "win now" to a "draft and develop" model we need to have a 2-3 year gap in which we don't even touch anyone younger than 21 in our prospect pool. This creates a black hole where we aren't allowed to tap in young elite talent for quite a while. Our club may suffer short term from this. Hopefully we can fill any holes with UFA, and possibly flip those UFA players for picks if things don't work out.

Even in 3 years our core is still valid. It may have changed a bit, but we'd be nowhere near the situation that Vancouver or San Jose is in. Our oldest key player right now is 28.

My point is there's no ticking clock for us. Thinking that way just results in short term fixes to win now that end up costing us long term.

We have 10 draft picks this year and 8 next year, and management has invested very heavily in scouting the draft. I also think under the new CBA we will be able to spend closer to the cap, but I don't think we ever will in order to have flexibility.
I agree with most of what you said. Atlanta did rush their prospects but really only Burmi is suffering any long term effects. And you can't hold your picks out until they are 21 just on principal. You bring them in as they are ready. Just as much damage can be done to stagnate a player's development if they are playing against competition they have out grown. IMO Trouba will be an example of this.

We do have a window of another 3 years or so before the oldest of our core start declining. That doesn't mean this team shouldn't try to start adding some of the missing pieces. With some luck we have 3 or 4 pieces already in the system (Sheifele, Trouba and Lowry being the closest) that leaves still some gaping holes that need to be filled.

The trade deadline might not be the best time, but we will need to add from somewhere the missing pieces (trades, free agency and maybe another pick or 2). As the team is constructed now we have way to many players that merely fill a roster spot and add virtually nothing on a day by day basis.

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:59 AM
  #90
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The deadline is too soon for us unfortunately. Losing the last 3 games changed the atmosphere for fans and probably the team and the office. If we can manage to get back to our playoff-game like we had before the back-to-back WSH games, I'm all for buying at the deadline and get a scoring 2nd line RW for one of our 2nd round picks and Postma/Redmond.

After the last 4 games, I'm not so sure anymore.

Maybe the tank is empty and we even fall out of the playoffs in the next 2-3 weeks. It would suck to have traded them away for a 2nd line RW rental just to not make the playoffs. It would hurt us a lot in my eyes.


Does ANYBODY have any idea how long Slater, Wright and Peluso are away to get back on the roster?

I heard Peluso is "weeks" (2?) away but Slater and Wright are only days (??) away. If we can get them back after our road trip (next 3 games), I'd say go for it and take the gamble to pick up a 2nd line RW.

Also we have to get a look on Kulda.

Ladd Little Wheeler
Kane Jokinen 2ndlineRW
Burmistrov Antropov Wellwood
Wright Slater Peluso

Enström Buff
Hainsey Bogosian
Kulda Clitsome/Postma


I think we're competitive with that roster. But we're not with what we're lining up right now (last 3-4 games).

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:37 AM
  #91
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I am also firmly in the 'be patient and methodical' camp, because, really, what other choices do we have? We are not going to mortgage the future--that is pretty clear. The only teams willing to trade for Hainsey will be unwilling to give up a top-6 player, as they will be making their own Cup runs. So, we are likely to either do nothing at the deadline (which would be fine) or get prospects/draft choices.
I'm afraid we are going to have to dance this year with the ones that brought us.

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03-31-2013, 10:48 AM
  #92
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I guess it all depends on how you value window. Let's assume it takes at least three years in"the window". So you start competing (win a round or two) then you have usually two or three more years to win the cup.

The point is, with our core being 26-28 if they don't make the playoffs this year, they make it next year. Now there 27-29. Then the next year they win a round. Now there 28-30. Now they've got 3years to win it. I'd they don't do it right away, evedyonws on the wrong side if thirty and is declining.

It may not seem were on a timeline, but I think when you really look at it we are. Or our window will open when most of our players are beginning to regress.

As stated you don't get to the playoffs once and become a contender, but its an absolutely necessary first step in 4 year long process. The longer it takes to get there the longer if takes to be a contender, the older our core gets.

We almost do have to make a decision, is wheeler Ladd buff enstrom our "core" guys or are Kane sxhiefek trouba bongo? If its the. First group we do need to start taking the steps immediately- if its the second group, then you can take your time, but you should probably be moving some of the first group then foe guys that will fit the younger window

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03-31-2013, 10:51 AM
  #93
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Hainsey would be stupid not to try the open market while he has a chance.. Any UFA would be, unless of course your current team is offering something that they can't refuse such as with Perry and Getzlaf.. To think that Winnipeg will offer anywhere near his current salary of 4+M should be a pipe dream as far as I'm concerned so, given that scenario, he will check out the open market and we will end up losing him for nothing if we don't move before the deadline. We have a problem with Dmen in terms of being in a situation of automatically losing one on waivers if they were all healthy so I say move him. We have Postma, Redmond, Meech, and/or Kulda sitting there to replace him that could do just as good a job given the opportunity and they are alot younger!

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03-31-2013, 11:07 AM
  #94
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Hainsey is expendable in the sense he can be replaced in the offseason relatively inexpensively. Good player but a very replaceable type of player. If he fetches a decent return then it's pretty tough to say no to that. Hainsey and Clitsome are pretty equal in terms of what they bring and Kulda is still lurking somewhere in the MTS ready to play.

Antropov may be gone in the offseason but his big body is helpful come playoffs. Seems likely the Jets will finish 3rd or 8th so his size will help during the grind but also we don't have any forward depth that can score regularly (or as regularly as Antro does).

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03-31-2013, 11:09 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I guess it all depends on how you value window. Let's assume it takes at least three years in"the window". So you start competing (win a round or two) then you have usually two or three more years to win the cup.

The point is, with our core being 26-28 if they don't make the playoffs this year, they make it next year. Now there 27-29. Then the next year they win a round. Now there 28-30. Now they've got 3years to win it. I'd they don't do it right away, evedyonws on the wrong side if thirty and is declining.

It may not seem were on a timeline, but I think when you really look at it we are. Or our window will open when most of our players are beginning to regress.

As stated you don't get to the playoffs once and become a contender, but its an absolutely necessary first step in 4 year long process. The longer it takes to get there the longer if takes to be a contender, the older our core gets.

We almost do have to make a decision, is wheeler Ladd buff enstrom our "core" guys or are Kane sxhiefek trouba bongo? If its the. First group we do need to start taking the steps immediately- if its the second group, then you can take your time, but you should probably be moving some of the first group then foe guys that will fit the younger window
First of all that is the best spelling of Scheifele's name I've seen. But your last paragraph hits on an interesting point. I would argue our core could be a combination of the 2, but by necessity it will need to be more of the younger guys. Ladd, Wheeler, Toby and Buff are the current core but after that our older players are mostly hand me downs or never weres. In 3 years Ladd and Wheeler and Toby will still be in their prime while the younger guys should have now become the nucleus.

I know it always stirs up debate, but trading Buff for a couple high potential young guys just may be the bridge we need to actually be a contender in 3-4 years. In 3 or 4 years IMO Buff will be a shadow of his current self, and even now I would argue the Jets would be much better off if he was a complimentary piece rather than the straw that stirs the drink.

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03-31-2013, 11:15 AM
  #96
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Agreed that we are kind of between a rock and a hard place with Antro. We can use his skill and big body in the short term (playoffs?) and really don't have anybody to replace him so no choice but to keep him till the end of the season and hope that he signs a two year contract. If not, I guess we lose him. As for Hainsey, the only thing we can go for if we are to sell him at the deadline is a draft pick (picks) seeing that he will not fetch us any top 6 forward, which is what we really need, but only another bottom 6 which we have an over abundance of at the moment. IMO all but maybe 4 forwards are top 6 material.

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03-31-2013, 11:43 AM
  #97
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Trade hainsey as he is really the only ufa that has enough value that could get something decent in return

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03-31-2013, 11:47 AM
  #98
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First of all that is the best spelling of Scheifele's name I've seen. But your last paragraph hits on an interesting point. I would argue our core could be a combination of the 2, but by necessity it will need to be more of the younger guys. Ladd, Wheeler, Toby and Buff are the current core but after that our older players are mostly hand me downs or never weres. In 3 years Ladd and Wheeler and Toby will still be in their prime while the younger guys should have now become the nucleus.

I know it always stirs up debate, but trading Buff for a couple high potential young guys just may be the bridge we need to actually be a contender in 3-4 years. In 3 or 4 years IMO Buff will be a shadow of his current self, and even now I would argue the Jets would be much better off if he was a complimentary piece rather than the straw that stirs the drink.
This is how I feel as well. It will be some combination of the two with it being weighted more heavily at our youngsters. Ladd and Enstrom will still be key players into their early 30's and Wheeler doesn't have as much mileage as forwards typically do at his age so I think he will be able to contribute. The only player that I see declining substantially by that time is Buff which is why I could see him getting traded for two younger players that fit the age the Kane, Bogosian age range.

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03-31-2013, 12:07 PM
  #99
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Trade hainsey as he is really the only ufa that has enough value that could get something decent in return
Leopold Just got Buf a 2nd and a 5th.... and he has been bad for a few years now. The Jets need to sell him now, they can easily get more than it will cost to acquire a suitable 4th Dman in the off season.

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03-31-2013, 12:31 PM
  #100
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I don't think there has to be a window if you can draft/develop well, manage your assets, and make smart signings. There is no reason if you do those things you can't be a perennial playoff team like Detroit, San Jose, or Nashville.

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