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Greg Sherman & Co - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM (Part II)

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03-25-2013, 11:39 AM
  #201
Ivan13
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
Since we rarely draft european, and when we do, it doesn't go well. Yes, I'd say we need one.
Let me refrase my previous post, considering our draft record with European born players (Landy doesn't count since he play in the OHL) losing Carlsson is no great loss and FTR my previous post is more sarcasm than anything, I think our European scouting is pretty much a joke and it needs to be fixed sooner rather than later.

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03-25-2013, 11:43 AM
  #202
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Let me refrase my previous post, considering our draft record with European born players (Landy doesn't count since he play in the OHL) losing Carlsson is no great loss and FTR my previous post is more sarcasm than anything, I think our European scouting is pretty much a joke and it needs to be fixed sooner rather than later.
I know Dater said a few years back the Avs actually increased their European scouting, whether they have continued to do so or if the scouting was all that good is definitely up for debate.

Whoever the Sens have scouting for them in Sweden--I want that guy.

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03-25-2013, 11:44 AM
  #203
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Wasn't there a change in the new CBA that allowed teams to keep Euro rights longer? I seem to remember 4 years... that alone would make it worth it to scout European leagues more to find some late round gems.

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03-25-2013, 11:47 AM
  #204
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Wasn't there a change in the new CBA that allowed teams to keep Euro rights longer? I seem to remember 4 years... that alone would make it worth it to scout European leagues more to find some late round gems.
Yes it was. No longer forced to give them a contract within two years, regardless if they deserve it or not. Players like Tim Heed and Sebastian Wännström getting NHL-contracts is a JOKE. Just cause the teams don't want to lose the rights to the players. But that is fixed now.

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03-25-2013, 11:49 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I know Dater said a few years back the Avs actually increased their European scouting, whether they have continued to do so or if the scouting was all that good is definitely up for debate.

Whoever the Sens have scouting for them in Sweden--I want that guy.
Wouldn't mind their head coach either. In the face of the injuries they've had, that team's play this season has been awesome.

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03-25-2013, 11:50 AM
  #206
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If Duchene came back this season and his constant linemates were Chuck Kobasew and Cody McLeod, and he only played about 14 minutes a game, do people think he would be a productive player?
Not as productive, of course not.

Then again, I wouldn't expect Mark Olver to outscore him playing with similar linemates.

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03-25-2013, 12:43 PM
  #207
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Did Giguere make any deadline moves prior to his sacking? I don't recall that he made any whatsoever.

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03-25-2013, 12:50 PM
  #208
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The problem that i have with this line of thought, is that it is the same coach from last year, it's basically the same team from last year, and he has regressed offensively.

The problem that i have with blaming Sacco, is that game in and game out, i see guys like Hejda and O'Brien having a bigger impact on the offensive zone (at least getting pucks on the net).



You might be right about everything you wrote about EJ. I certanly hope so. But it is all speculation. What we know for sure is that his production has dropped and IMO it's not fair to put the blame ONLY on Sacco. My question is: At what point is it ok to blame the players?? At what point is it OK to question whether some of our players are as good as we think they are??



The funny/sad thing about it, is that we just traded a lot for a Dman, that we put a lot of hope in (supposedly a #1). And now we have to trade for ANOTHER expensive Dman to make the first one look good??
I'll just finish up with a quick reply in the EJ thread.

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03-25-2013, 01:05 PM
  #209
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Did Giguere make any deadline moves prior to his sacking? I don't recall that he made any whatsoever.
If I remember it was out of the blue that they fired him and the whole coaching staff.

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03-25-2013, 01:07 PM
  #210
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Did Giguere make any deadline moves prior to his sacking? I don't recall that he made any whatsoever.
Leopold

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03-25-2013, 02:58 PM
  #211
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By the way, I'd like to point out that I'm not taking offense to anything AB and Av-merican are saying in their posts. We've all known each other long enough to not take a spirited debate personally, and start overtly flaming each other, or interpret each other's posts as such.

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03-25-2013, 03:03 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
By the way, I'd like to point out that I'm not taking offense to anything AB and Av-merican are saying in their posts. We've all known each other long enough to not take a spirited debate personally, and start overtly flaming each other, or interpret each other's posts as such.
It's been a civil discussion IMO. Keep it up.

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03-25-2013, 03:13 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Wouldn't mind their head coach either. In the face of the injuries they've had, that team's play this season has been awesome.
I would have to agree with that, MacLean is doing a wonderful job in Ottawa, I wish we had a coach like that, I think he would do wonder for our youngsters like Barrie and Elliott, just look at what he did with EK, Wiercioch (spelling?), Cowen and Methot.

@Av_merican

I don't see a movement in a positive way when it comes to European scouting in recent years (save for Aittokallio), but the sample size is pretty small so I'll give them a bit more time to see if there really is an improvement in that departement of our team.


Last edited by Ivan13: 03-25-2013 at 03:19 PM. Reason: spelling - I've been dropping an awful lot of letters, I guess my brain is telling me it's time to go to sleep
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03-30-2013, 04:24 PM
  #214
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Is it just me or do more of you guys get pretty damn confused with the return we got for Liles considering what guys like Leopold and Murray got traded for?

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03-30-2013, 04:29 PM
  #215
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Is it just me or do more of you guys get pretty damn confused with the return we got for Liles considering what guys like Leopold and Murray got traded for?
Different years and different Trade Markets...not really reasonable to make those comparisons imo.

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03-30-2013, 04:36 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Different years and different Trade Markets...not really reasonable to make those comparisons imo.
There was a lack of quality defensemen on the market back then just as is the case right now and Liles (at least at that point in time) was a much better player than Leopold and Murray are right now.

IMHO that was an absolutely terrible trade for us for three big reasons:

a) the abysmal return we got for Johnny
b) we still haven't replaced his puck moving ability in the lineup
c) he would look really well next to EJ

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03-30-2013, 04:42 PM
  #217
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Is it just me or do more of you guys get pretty damn confused with the return we got for Liles considering what guys like Leopold and Murray got traded for?
No. Liles was traded in the offseason a few years ago. Leopold was traded this year at the deadline, and only netted a 5th on top of the 2nd that Liles got. Liles didn't have a lot of value and probably has even less now.

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03-30-2013, 05:05 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
No. Liles was traded in the offseason a few years ago. Leopold was traded this year at the deadline, and only netted a 5th on top of the 2nd that Liles got. Liles didn't have a lot of value and probably has even less now.
Yeah. Leopold might be better player overall than Liles, so I don't think It's that far.

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03-30-2013, 05:10 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Yeah. Leopold might be better player overall than Liles, so I don't think It's that far.
Now I've heard it all. Leopold has been absolutely terrible for the Sabres this year.

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03-30-2013, 07:38 PM
  #220
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Is it just me or do more of you guys get pretty damn confused with the return we got for Liles considering what guys like Leopold and Murray got traded for?
The Avs traded significant salary and didn't take any back in the trade. That's why it was lopsided. IMO.

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03-30-2013, 08:17 PM
  #221
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Leopold was a better player than Liles, but his game has really declined, and he is pretty bad at this point. I was always a fan of his, quite disappointing.

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:46 AM
  #222
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The Avs traded significant salary and didn't take any back in the trade. That's why it was lopsided. IMO.
Yup, people forget that we cleared salary in that trade to turn around and sign Hejda. I'd take Hejda and a second round pick for Liles allday. All DAY!

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03-31-2013, 08:49 AM
  #223
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Yup, people forget that we cleared salary in that trade to turn around and sign Hejda. I'd take Hejda and a second round pick for Liles allday. All DAY!
I think they also overlook that it was the 2nd round pick used in the JML trade that was sent to Washington, with our 1st round pick in 2012, for Varlamov.

So one could realistically look at it as

1st Rd 2012 + JML for Varlamov

If they wanted to, and I still think that's a good deal, especially considering how maddeningly frustrating JML was to watch sometimes, not that he wasn't a "Fan Favorite", he definitely was

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03-31-2013, 08:58 AM
  #224
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The Avs traded significant salary and didn't take any back in the trade. That's why it was lopsided. IMO.
Fair point, but there was really no pressing need to shed Johnny's salary from our roster, IMHO had Sherman waited at least until the next trade deadline he'd get a much better return. IMHO that was poor asset management.

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03-31-2013, 08:59 AM
  #225
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Fair point, but there was really no pressing need to shed Johnny's salary from our roster, IMHO had Sherman waited at least until the next trade deadline he'd get a much better return. IMHO that was poor asset management.
Agreed.

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