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Old
03-31-2013, 09:09 AM
  #351
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
If that's what you believe, there's no point in debating with you.

His ES production is better than last year and that's key, especially for the playoffs.

How did he produce though? He's nowhere near his last game. Same thing with Patches... What's the appeal of a perimeter player like he his now ? Both are bad, stop trying to pimp them.

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03-31-2013, 09:18 AM
  #352
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How did he produce though? He's nowhere near his last game. Same thing with Patches... What's the appeal of a perimeter player like he his now ? Both are bad, stop trying to pimp them.
Really dissapointed with Desharnais i remember the interview at rds after his contract and houde asked him how he feels now that the pressure will be bigger since now has a big contract... and he said he tought the pressure was bigger without contract... the way he said it was kind of he did what he had to do now its done... people wont doubt him. im good already now stop bugging me. He could have said this is just the begining i want to become better stronger but.. anyway i tought it was just a wrong choice of words but maybe he really feels that way.. also when he made that pass to gionta after being benched his face was showing arrogance kind of like.. here is what i can do coach.. when he 100% was playing like crap no effort. i hope i am wrong tough...

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03-31-2013, 09:34 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
If that's what you believe, there's no point in debating with you.

His ES production is better than last year and that's key, especially for the playoffs.

You're going to get sick of complaining about him .. you've got 4 and 1/2 years left.
False.

Last year, he had 40 ESP over 1186.43 EV mins (Avg. production of 2.02286964 ESP per 60 EV mins).
This year, he has 15 ESP over 461.35 EV mins (Avg. production of 1.95079656 ESP per 60 EV mins).

The production is similar although it was better last season but you'd expect more given that his line is provided with soft minutes, which include a high % of offensive zone starts.

As it stands, DD is currently behind Gallagher, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Ryder and Eller in terms of ESP production per 60.

Once Galchenyuk is ready for 1st line duties and produce like one (which may take anywhere from 1 to 3 years - or more), I expect Desharnais to be moved to the wing (if not sooner) or traded.

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:41 AM
  #354
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What if his career year IS the anomaly ? Because that looks like it.
It looks like it only when you completely disconsider how DD played (and not only his stats) in 2010-11.

In 2011-12, he wasn't playing THAT MUCH better last year than he was in 2010-11, when he wasn't in the Top-6, except for odd presences on the wing.

Obviously, he had better stats in 11-12, due to usage.

He doesn't play well this year, and his current statline might actually look at little better than his actual performance.

Hence why I think it's more likely that this season is the anomaly, and not 11-12.

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03-31-2013, 09:42 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
False.

Last year, he had 40 ESP over 1186.43 EV mins (Avg. production of 2.02286964 ESP per 60 EV mins).
This year, he has 15 ESP over 461.35 EV mins (Avg. production of 1.95079656 ESP per 60 EV mins).

The production is similar although it was better last season but you'd expect more given that his line is provided with soft minutes, which include a high % of offensive zone starts.

As it stands, DD is currently behind Gallagher, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Ryder and Eller in terms of ESP production per 60.

Once Galchenyuk is ready for 1st line duties and produce like one (which may take anywhere from 1 to 3 years - or more), I expect Desharnais to be moved to the wing (if not sooner) or traded.
You are correct good sir. I forgot last night's point was a PP point, I used 16, not 15. Short season, so 1-point changes quite a bit.

I'm not going to sugar-coat DD, he's not having a great season. But he's not as terrible as some people here are making him out to be. It's a very Price-like situation. You have people who defend his every move and people who hate his every move.

I stick up for DD more than I do Price, I admit that - you usually do that when a guy is one of your favourites. But I can still admit he's not playing as good as I expect him too, but I think he's still a key piece of our lineup and he's playing alright (better in the last few games then the previous 5 or 6), regardless of his on-ice performance.

I actually had to delete a post from the Carey Price thread, not 2-minutes after the game ended, chirping that the Rangers didn't get any good shots and that's the only reason Price didn't let in goals.

As for being traded? I don't see it happening for at least 2-3 years. Moved to the wing? Definite possibility. I'm not sure, long-term, who will play center between the three of them but as long as we keep winning, I don't really give a ****.


Last edited by Hawkguy: 03-31-2013 at 09:49 AM.
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Old
03-31-2013, 09:52 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
You are correct good sir. I forgot last night's point was a PP point, I used 16, not 15. Short season, so 1-point changes quite a bit.

I'm not going to sugar-coat DD, he's not having a great season. But he's not as terrible as some people here are making him out to be. It's a very Price-like situation. You have people who defend his every move and people who hate his every move.

I stick up for DD more than I do Price, I admit that - you usually do that when a guy is one of your favourites. But I can still admit he's not playing as good as I expect him too, but I think he's still a key piece of our lineup and he's playing alright (better in the last few games then the previous 5 or 6).

As for being traded? I don't see it happening for at least 2-3 years. Moved to the wing? Definite possibility. I'm not sure, long-term, who will play center between the three of them but as long as we keep winning, I don't really give a ****.
Funny how a single point can change everything. This goes to show that this is a small sample size and there is practically no way to judge right now about what is a fluke and what is not.

For now, we're winning with everybody's playing their roles (includes DD, Plekanec, Eller, Subban, Price, Budaj, etc.). DD's extension will allow Bergevin to revisit this later down the road when Galchenyuk is ready to exploit/dominate and takeover the sheltered minutes and greater proportion of offensive zone starts - but he's not there yet. In the meanwhile, his extension only takes up a small portion of the cap and remains a good stopgap solution center until we can find a better one - internally or externally.

I won't lie however by saying I'd not be interested to see how Eller performs with a legit winger like Max Pacioretty though. But that's another story.

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03-31-2013, 09:55 AM
  #357
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Desharnais has not been good. Point ą la ligne.

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03-31-2013, 09:58 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
Funny how a single point can change everything. This goes to show that this is a small sample size and there is practically no way to judge right now about what is a fluke and what is not.

For now, we're winning with everybody's playing their roles (includes DD, Plekanec, Eller, Subban, Price, Budaj, etc.). DD's extension will allow Bergevin to revisit this later down the road when Galchenyuk is ready to exploit/dominate and takeover the sheltered minutes and greater proportion of offensive zone starts - but he's not there yet. In the meanwhile, his extension only takes up a small portion of the cap and remains a good stopgap solution center until we can find a better one - internally or externally.

I won't lie however by saying I'd not be interested to see how Eller performs with a legit winger like Max Pacioretty though. But that's another story.
You can say that, and I think we may get that connection at some point next year when Galchenyuk is bit more used to the NHL and defensive play.

I think a tandem of Desharnais & Galchenyuk would eat-up if they were getting all the offensive zone starts, especially with Bourque (of 2013) playing with them.

I've said many times that Pacioretty and Desharnais seem to be relying too much on "old tricks." I don't see the creativity from Desharnais I'm used too and Pacioretty, despite the fact that he's awesome, has seemed lazy lately. He makes Desharnais look like Datysuk defensively (and Desharnais is not good either).

I guess it all depends on what happens in the playoffs though.

I love Eller too. It sucks when you love all four centres on one team and people are so adamant about getting rid of one of them. I really think we need to try Desharnais at wing, to see what he can do there (Eller is a solid winger too, IMO) but that won't happen until next year when the team has time to experiment.

I actually really liked the Eller-DD combination this year during their short stint. It's too bad Cole wrecked most of their offense.

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03-31-2013, 10:02 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post

I love Eller too. It sucks when you love all four centres on one team and people are so adamant about getting rid of one of them. I really think we need to try Desharnais at wing, to see what he can do there (Eller is a solid winger too, IMO) but that won't happen until next year when the team has time to experiment.

I actually really liked the Eller-DD combination this year during their short stint. It's too bad Cole wrecked most of their offense.
Eller good at wing? At LW, yes. RW? Inconsistent, to say the least.

The thing is -- DD would play LW, right?

The odd thing is -- DD/Eller could certainly work as a duo (regardless of who plays C or W), offensively speaking.

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03-31-2013, 10:08 AM
  #360
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Nice to see this thread come down to a more sane level. It was pretty rocky there for a while.

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03-31-2013, 10:09 AM
  #361
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Nice to see this thread come down to a more sane level. It was pretty rocky there for a while.
You're welcome.

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:11 AM
  #362
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Eller good at wing? At LW, yes. RW? Inconsistent, to say the least.

The thing is -- DD would play LW, right?

The odd thing is -- DD/Eller could certainly work as a duo (regardless of who plays C or W), offensively speaking.
I only remember Eller playing RW once this season.

But yes, he's very solid at LW.

If DD can play wing, Eller is the better option at center because of his defensive play. However, if DD can't play wing, Eller can slot in as a LW very easily (and he'll probably have a better chance at being on an offensive line playing LW too).

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03-31-2013, 10:23 AM
  #363
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What's a legitimate number 1 centre? I think you should understand the difference between elite number 1 centres and number 1 centres.
I dont qualify a #1 because by default Pleks is your top center

is Hornquist a front liner because Nashville has nothing up front ? NOT

Pleks is a solid # 2 on most teams , HE IS NOT A LEGIT #1 CENTER

forget elite like Crosby or Malkin , the point is this Pleks couldnt take anyone of those center jobs and do what they do

Pleks will not make Kunitz a top 3 scorer in the league or give Neal 40 goals

there are maybe 10-15 in the league and Pleks isnt one of them

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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Your opinion still leaves room for 18-20 that are still #1s by definition.
fine by definition in your mimnd

so Brian Campbell right now is a front line D man like Webber

and Vinny Prospal is a front line winger in Columbus

cause by your definition , thats where they belong


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03-31-2013, 10:47 AM
  #364
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fine by definition in your mimnd

so Brian Campbell right now is a front line D man like Webber

and Vinny Prospal is a front line winger in Columbus

cause by your definition , thats where they belong
Yes, Prospal is a 1st line winger. He's a guy you'd like to have an improvement on, but he's still first line quality (or very high second line quality).

Campbell is a #2/#3 defenseman. He'd be on a lot better team than the Panthers if his contract wasn't so terrible.

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03-31-2013, 10:49 AM
  #365
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You're welcome.
It is nice to see you posting more often.

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03-31-2013, 06:54 PM
  #366
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Yes, Prospal is a 1st line winger. He's a guy you'd like to have an improvement on, but he's still first line quality (or very high second line quality).

Campbell is a #2/#3 defenseman. He'd be on a lot better team than the Panthers if his contract wasn't so terrible.
if prospal is first line Gio is a fanchise player

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03-31-2013, 07:09 PM
  #367
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Some numbers of Desharnais, Eller and Plekanec at the same age and this season. See the results and make your own opinion.

http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.ph...aisEnglish.png

IMO, I think the debat between the two mans, Eller-Desharnais, will be very similar to Price-Halak in some time. But this time the people choice, Desharnais, have the position of strength versus the hockey decision, Eller, in the depth chart for now and its the complete opposite of the first situation, Price-Halak.

How many time they will put Desharnais on a "piedestal" at detriment of Eller?
When they will give a fair chance to Eller, without 3 injury or a plane crash, to succeed in a more offensive-mind role? How good he need to be for get some recognition by the staff? Is not the next Wayne Gretzky but he have play some great hockey this year and I don't know if he can be a lot better than that because is really good and EFFECTIVE this year.

Each times this guy touch the puck in neutral zone and/or offensive zone you can see how much space he can created on ice for himself and his teammates; unfortunately, Galchenyuk hit a "mini-slump" and have difficulty to appear on the sheet lastly, Armstrong is Armstrong and Prust are not recognize for his offensive production. He is a little bit too fancy with the puck in is own territory and he don’t seem to realize the danger of playing like that close of your net but this guy are really young and he is already a beast in your own territory. He will only become better with time, maturity and experience.

I have no trouble to see Eller playing a 3rd line role “a la Jordan Staal” in Pittsburgh but we don’t have the firepower of Malkin and Crosby for top 2 center of the team and the use of Eller in that role become more a waste than a good choice, IMO, because the center in front of him are not really better than he his. When we will have two centers who are really better than Eller the Habs will be a perennial Stanley Cup contender.

The hockey sense of Eller are often questioned but IMO he is a lot better of what people think and he don't have the credit he deserve. I think the way he play the game, european style, are just unconventionnal for some fans and they are more confortable with a conventionnal player; see north american player. Eller just don't see the ice and don't use that the same way.

The slogan "No Excuses" doesn't apply for Desharnais? Get this guy out of the PP and give Eller some time if you want to be fair, he earn this. And of course, with the length of the new contract of Desharnais how they will use Galchenyuk in the next few years because the easy minutes Desharnais will play cannot be play by Galchenyuk and if Desharnais don't play in that role he become useless and less effective.

At least, if you want to invest in a unidimensionnal offensive center why they are not waiting for Ribeiro in the summer; at least this guys are a beast with the puck, a pp specialist and a shootout specialist at the very least he bring some great intangible and production to the table for a higher price but better production. And he can make look is winger a lot of better, see free goal at the door post, and we can’t say this with Desharnais because is always playing with the better winger of the team and we don’t know if Desharnais make his winger look better or the opposite but this year I take the option #2.

PS: Sorry for my poor english “a la Gratton”, I’m a QC guy


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03-31-2013, 09:01 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk15 View Post
Some numbers of Desharnais, Eller and Plekanec at the same age and this season. See the results and make your own opinion.

http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.ph...aisEnglish.png

IMO, I think the debat between the two mans, Eller-Desharnais, will be very similar to Price-Halak in some time. But this time the people choice, Desharnais, have the position of strength versus the hockey decision, Eller, in the depth chart for now and its the complete opposite of the first situation, Price-Halak.

Choice of the people?
Seriously?
Did you even read this thread?

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03-31-2013, 09:49 PM
  #369
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Only in the Montreal HFBoards can you find this type of discussion.

Our 6th highest scorer of points being trashed day in and day out.

For comparison sakes.

6th Highest scorer on a team.....

Pittsburgh--Malkin
Boston--Lucic
Anaheim--Selanne (who has 20 points, same as DD)
Detroit--Filppula (who only has 13 points)
Chicago--Sharp (only 18 points)
Vancouver--Edler
Toronto--Kulemin
Ottawa--Silfverberg (only 14 points)


This thread has gone past ridiculous and has entered bizarro world.

All because of the love for a boyishly cute Danish center who centers the "3rd" line instead of the "2nd" line. And the coach does not want to have the pretty Dane on the PP.

Amazing

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03-31-2013, 09:54 PM
  #370
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hmmmm...points

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03-31-2013, 10:00 PM
  #371
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hmmmm...points
If points do not matter, why keep it as a stat?

Goals only then.

Looks worse for Eller. DD has him doubled up.

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03-31-2013, 10:01 PM
  #372
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hmmmm...points
Since his slow start (since the game against Toronto); Desharnais has 15-points in 22-games and is a +4.

Is that really that bad?

He struggled for a handful of games a week or two ago, but he's been better the last few games. He's not as consistent as Eller or Plekanec, performance wise, but he's always giving 100% and he's producing alright since his slow start.

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03-31-2013, 10:14 PM
  #373
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I don't get why Eller is being brought up by anyone. If Eller is moved (either for a goon or to replace Desharnais on the all-offense line), who would replace him? Halpern?

If anyone threatens Desharnais' place on this team, it's Galchenyuk. Personally, I prefer Gally in a more low key role. This will be a question for another time.

Desharnais' usage is fine. He's not scoring at a particularly high rate for an exploitation scorer, but he was better against the Rangers, so maybe something is coming.

If there's anything that's problematic right now, it's Pacioretty on that line despite that famous chemistry between Patches and Desharnais leading to nothing. If anyone should be moved to another line, it's Pacioretty.

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03-31-2013, 10:26 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Only in the Montreal HFBoards can you find this type of discussion.

Our 6th highest scorer of points being trashed day in and day out.

For comparison sakes.

6th Highest scorer on a team.....

Pittsburgh--Malkin
Boston--Lucic
Anaheim--Selanne (who has 20 points, same as DD)
Detroit--Filppula (who only has 13 points)
Chicago--Sharp (only 18 points)
Vancouver--Edler
Toronto--Kulemin
Ottawa--Silfverberg (only 14 points)


This thread has gone past ridiculous and has entered bizarro world.

All because of the love for a boyishly cute Danish center who centers the "3rd" line instead of the "2nd" line. And the coach does not want to have the pretty Dane on the PP.

Amazing
Points always points.....don't matter how, why or when somebody played....it's always about points in the end....



Here's a point for you.....down on his ass and puck hit tim. 1 points


Here's another point......if you wonder, he is the one making the small pass behind the Price's net.


And of course...on Pacioretty's goal


You see....all players got those points which they didn't really diserve.
And sometimes, players do incredible play....and don't get point for them.

So the defense of "he made as many points as"......is ridiculous.

They're is so much more than points that matters.
Why do we keep Prust? Why do we keep Gorges?

Cause they bring more than offensive to the teamwith them, they are usefull in many ways.....just like Eller does (most agressive forechecker on the team....without competition right now), and Eller also bring defensive awareness, size, lots of hits and a really good offensive output considering his icetime/linesmates/NOPP and evertything else, can play wing or center, can play 2nd-3rd-4th line if needed.

we...at least i, don't trash DD for his offensive production, which is a big plus for the team......but he doesn't bring ANYTHING else to the table as Eller does.....well, he brings a very poor defensive game. which is a big minus for the team...both are cancelling each other out!!! What does he brings then?

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03-31-2013, 10:32 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Points always points.....don't matter how, why or when somebody played....it's always about points in the end....



Here's a point for you.....down on his ass and puck hit tim. 1 points


Here's another point......if you wonder, he is the one making the small pass behind the Price's net.


And of course...on Pacioretty's goal


You see....all players got those points which they didn't really diserve.
And sometimes, players do incredible play....and don't get point for them.

So the defense of "he made as many points as"......is ridiculous.

They're is so much more than points that matters.
Why do we keep Prust? Why do we keep Gorges?

Cause they bring more than offensive to the teamwith them, they are usefull in many ways.....just like Eller does (most agressive forechecker on the team....without competition right now), and Eller also bring defensive awareness, size, lots of hits and a really good offensive output considering his icetime/linesmates/NOPP and evertything else, can play wing or center, can play 2nd-3rd-4th line if needed.

we...at least i, don't trash DD for his offensive production, which is a big plus for the team......but he doesn't bring ANYTHING else to the table as Eller does.....well, he brings a very poor defensive game. which is a big minus for the team...both are cancelling each other out!!! What does he brings then?
Seriously, now you're just reaching. You can find those types of points for any player in the NHL.

The goal against the Rangers... if that was anyone else, you would be praising them for going hard to the net. Desharnais? You whine about him going to the net to bash him. PS. The puck didn't hit him, he tried to kick it to his stick and got taken down.

Second goal.. again, if it was another player it would be "Great breakout pass to create a good scoring chance." Desharnais? "Oh look at that tiny pass.. what a lucky guy." Fact is, Desharnais got back and got the puck out of trouble before giving a good outlet pass to Gallagher.

Third goal? I'm not even going to bother commenting on that because that was obviously a lucky goal.. and a lucky point for Pacioretty too. Desharnais has had plenty of great passes that didn't end up in the net because of great saves, etc. It evens out.

Eller and Desharnais aren't competing for the same spot. Just like Et Le But said. Eller is a 2-way forward who is being used in that spot and doing a fantastic job

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