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Subban's play since coming back Part 2

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Old
03-30-2013, 06:19 PM
  #526
25get
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Bobby Orr was top scorer in the league in 1969-1970 and 1974-1975.

There is no d-men who was top-10 since the lock out.

Back in 1970, Vadnais was the second d-men at 44 points in 53rd position in the league.
5 years later, in 1975, Orr was again the best scorer in the league with 135 points. Next d-men was Denis Potvin who was 27th in the league with 76 points.

BTW, Orr was also second scorer in the league behind his teammate (Esposito) twice.

Subban can not compare to Orr.
In the future, you may compare Subban to Potvin or Bourque. Maybe.

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Old
03-30-2013, 06:54 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
bottom line was PK had to prove he had matured

so what if he gets Doughty money , as long as its with us , no issue here

if Gorges makes nearly 4 how do you not give PK 7 , come on ?

he is 10x more valuable to this team than JG
Well the point is you save cap. That's how Detroit was able to stay strong for so long. They managed to sign their players at smaller prices. Same with Chicago.
You think Chicago would be able to have Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook if they waited for all of them to have career years before signing them to longer deals?

What happens if Gallagher keeps going the way he has? What happens if Gally has a great year scoring 60ish pts next season, and then puts up a ppg?

You lock up your solid talent as soon as possible. Even if there was a little more for PK to prove, he was already worth a long term deal. It's not like he was going to regress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Bobby Orr was top scorer in the league in 1969-1970 and 1974-1975.

There is no d-men who was top-10 since the lock out.

Back in 1970, Vadnais was the second d-men at 44 points in 53rd position in the league.
5 years later, in 1975, Orr was again the best scorer in the league with 135 points. Next d-men was Denis Potvin who was 27th in the league with 76 points.

BTW, Orr was also second scorer in the league behind his teammate (Esposito) twice.

Subban can not compare to Orr.
In the future, you may compare Subban to Potvin or Bourque. Maybe.
You don't compare eras, period.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:04 PM
  #528
Montreal Shadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Bobby Orr was top scorer in the league in 1969-1970 and 1974-1975.

There is no d-men who was top-10 since the lock out.

Back in 1970, Vadnais was the second d-men at 44 points in 53rd position in the league.
5 years later, in 1975, Orr was again the best scorer in the league with 135 points. Next d-men was Denis Potvin who was 27th in the league with 76 points.

BTW, Orr was also second scorer in the league behind his teammate (Esposito) twice.

Subban can not compare to Orr.
In the future, you may compare Subban to Potvin or Bourque. Maybe.
They compared their style of play. You know, kinda like some people Lucic plays like Neely but is still nowhere near. Subban is dynamic, has amazing puck controls and can dangle through defensemen and do end-to-end rushes like Bobby Orr did. He isn't as successful or as quick but you get the point. He's really flashy.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:21 PM
  #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
bottom line was PK had to prove he had matured

so what if he gets Doughty money , as long as its with us , no issue here

if Gorges makes nearly 4 how do you not give PK 7 , come on ?

he is 10x more valuable to this team than JG
Subban was already more valuable to the Habs before he signed his bridge contract, so how come Bergevin lowballed him until Subban cave in? I mean, I'm using the same logic as you here.

Hockey is a finance game. The bottom line is that we COULD have locked Subban long term for a cap-friendly contract, but Bergevin decided to go with the bridge contract. Financially speaking, it was a bad move, and many of us called it at the time too.

I'll use the Letang example again. Had Shero gave him a bridge contract instead of a 4 years extension, Letang's cap-hit would be much, much higher than it currently is, and that difference in cap-hit might have been enough to prevent the Pens from binging Iginla to Pittsburgh.

I'm not trying to vilify Bergevin here. I don't see the problem with paying Subban his true value, but Bergevin could have managed the situation better.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:34 PM
  #530
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I'm gonna have to disagree. Bobby Orr was a pioneer. Today, there's a lot of Dmen that can do what he did. Players have evolved, and again, the game is a lot more different today, along with the competition.

Bobby Orr marked the sport. No question about that. But I seriously doubt any Dman can reach 100pts in today's league. Heck, only a few forwards are able to reach that amount.
Only a few forwards were reaching it then too

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03-30-2013, 08:42 PM
  #531
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3 pts so far tonight.

This guy is the Habs best player and its not even close.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:51 PM
  #532
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Big, Big, Big Money.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:55 PM
  #533
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I'm fine with whatever we end up paying him but I'd love for nothing more for him to take something absurd like 7 years at 6 million just to stick it to the Bergevin 'sort of' haters.

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Old
03-30-2013, 09:39 PM
  #534
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I'm fine with whatever we end up paying him but I'd love for nothing more for him to take something absurd like 7 years at 6 million just to stick it to the Bergevin 'sort of' haters.
... I don't if I'm part of the sort of haters, but if Bergevin do sign at 6 million for 7 years, that would kind of prove my point.

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03-30-2013, 09:52 PM
  #535
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I don't see any other Dmen doing what PK does on the ice.

He is a hugely entertaining player.

Astounding moves...

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Old
03-30-2013, 10:00 PM
  #536
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Why are we talking about Colton Orr in a Subban thread?

Anyone have the updated dmen scoring leaders?

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Old
03-30-2013, 10:13 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Why are we talking about Colton Orr in a Subban thread?

Anyone have the updated dmen scoring leaders?
Subban is 2nd, tied with Suter, but 5 games less played, and one point behind Letang with the same amount of games played.

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Old
03-30-2013, 10:50 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Subban is 2nd, tied with Suter, but 5 games less played, and one point behind Letang with the same amount of games played.

Sure.. pittsburgh leading scorer crosby 54pts... habs.. Subban with 27... says it all...

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Old
03-30-2013, 10:54 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Subban is 2nd, tied with Suter, but 5 games less played, and one point behind Letang with the same amount of games played.
Not anymore. Suter got a point tonight.

Letang and Suter both at 28, Subban at 27. After that it's Kronwall at 24.

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03-30-2013, 11:03 PM
  #540
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03-31-2013, 10:06 AM
  #541
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Gorges was on L'Antichambre last night and they asked him about Subban.

He said the biggest difference this year is Subban's maturity, that he has finally figure out that it is not always the end to end rush that gets you a point, he learned to let the game come to him and make the simple plays.

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03-31-2013, 10:07 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Gorges was on L'Antichambre last night and they asked him about Subban.

He said the biggest difference this year is Subban's maturity, that he has finally figure out that it is not always the end to end rush that gets you a point, he learned to let the game come to him and make the simple plays.
Man I hate Gorges.

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:09 AM
  #543
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Gorges was on L'Antichambre last night and they asked him about Subban.

He said the biggest difference this year is Subban's maturity, that he has finally figure out that it is not always the end to end rush that gets you a point, he learned to let the game come to him and make the simple plays.
Did they ask Gorges why he sucks so much this season?

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:14 AM
  #544
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Man I hate Gorges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Did they ask Gorges why he sucks so much this season?
Don't shoot the messenger.

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03-31-2013, 10:21 AM
  #545
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Man I hate Gorges.
... why?

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03-31-2013, 11:36 AM
  #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Gorges was on L'Antichambre last night and they asked him about Subban.

He said the biggest difference this year is Subban's maturity, that he has finally figure out that it is not always the end to end rush that gets you a point, he learned to let the game come to him and make the simple plays.
Did they ask gorges what kind of payment arrangement him and PK have made and how much of the 3.9million per year he makes is he willing to give back to the man who earned him that contract???

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03-31-2013, 11:41 AM
  #547
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I'm done listening to Gorges. Doesn't matter if he's right about this or not, all that BS during the lock out and Subban's contract dispute has soured me on him.

Hey Josh, you're not the captain of this team, you're a role player. Play your role better please.

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03-31-2013, 11:48 AM
  #548
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I think Gorges should have dealt with those questions better, but antichambre are such **** starters with questions like that. It's like watching The View. They can hardly control themselves with their squawking.

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03-31-2013, 12:06 PM
  #549
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Gorges rules.

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Old
03-31-2013, 12:20 PM
  #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Man I hate Gorges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Did they ask Gorges why he sucks so much this season?
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Did they ask gorges what kind of payment arrangement him and PK have made and how much of the 3.9million per year he makes is he willing to give back to the man who earned him that contract???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
I'm done listening to Gorges. Doesn't matter if he's right about this or not, all that BS during the lock out and Subban's contract dispute has soured me on him.

Hey Josh, you're not the captain of this team, you're a role player. Play your role better please.
In terms of his play, he's doing exactly his job and gave a cap-friendly deal long-term. Off-ice, he's the only player on this team who has the balls to actually go to these interviews and to give fans some insight into the team - our coveted midget captain doesn't even give interviews but Gorges is a loser for going into the snakepit and giving honest answers? You want your cake and to eat it too, it seems.

I don't watch antichambre or listen to sports radio, because I value my frontal lobe, but what do you expect him to say when he's asked a question like that? I prefer Subban to Gorges any day but clearly Subban has matured as a hockey player (I don't know him as a person, obviously) and is more effective this year than last year. It could have to do with not playing under Jacques Martin's ancient, asanine system and being on a winning, positive team, or it could do with his personal trajectory. Who knows.

Gorges is the man, he's a clean player who plays his heart out and faces the heat after every loss even if it wasn't on him. Leadership doesn't rear its head so clearly that often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I think Gorges should have dealt with those questions better, but antichambre are such **** starters with questions like that. It's like watching The View. They can hardly control themselves with their squawking.
There's is no other way to handle the question other than avoiding it fully and saying that he gives 100% on-and-off-the-ice or whatever.

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