HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Top 8 Goalies in the NHL

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-30-2013, 10:43 PM
  #26
Dynheart
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
And I know it's blasphemy, but I would argue that Brodeur has been overrated in his career as well. His main value comes from his unprecedented longevity and great career playoff performance rather than his peak abilities.

I know stats aren't everything. But people say Jimmy has been sheltered by playing behind Lidstrom which is why his stats are good. Why doesn't that hold true for Rinne in regards to Suter/Weber over the years?

I guess my question is, if Rinne is "elite" and Howard is just above average (according to most)...why have Rinne's abilities, playing in a defensive system that limits quality shots, and playing with 2 top 10 D-men not led to better goalie performance (stat wise)?
I'll take it a step further.

Why is Rinne on pace for having his worst season yet, right when they had a slight drop in defensive quality? Likewise, Howard is pretty much on par with every season, save one (sophomore year), with a drastic defensive drop?

1 legend is gone
1 great defensive defenseman (2 if you count Rafaski)
several new defensemen who joined; who suck.
2 rookies
a system that just wasn't cutting it for awhile (still a work in progress...and is barely cutting it now).

...yet another rookie otw (DeKeyser).

Stats may not tell the whole story. But it sure seems people like to pull the stat card to win an argument around here...when they can't/wont work? Then they pull the "stat's aren't the whole story" card.

It's safe to say that Howard has stole more games, and with a much worse defense (and a worse system) than Rinne has this year...yet...Rinne is elite! We can allow for bad seasons, sure. But it sure seems these elite guys get the benefit of the doubt (Rinne hasn't really proved anything other than playing behind a great defensive team...if people wanna blame Howards success on Lidstrom, then it's only fair) for some odd reason. Just look at Quick. Everyone is coming up with an excuse. Although, he's pretty much only had 1 good season.

Sad thing is, is that he'll stay "elite" for a long time, even if that turn's out to be a fluke season...just because he did it one time. Just once... I'll call this the Cam Ward effect.

Howard on the other hand can put up 92.0 2.20 stats every year on a ****y team, get called a top 20 goalie (on some lists around here he's ranked 25th!), has a year where he slips up and get's a 91.5 or something? This dude will get called out. Rinne and his 9.10 (could get worse...who knows)? The man is still elite!..and his team is in 10th, with the most games played in the conference!

Anyway...I still think Howard is underrated around here. Lundqvist didn't become elite until 2 years ago. Before that? He was mister choker who just put up good stats. Just goes to show how bi-polar hockey fans are. You can go from 20 to top 10 by just wining a cup (and he didn't even win a cup...people just started to notice his stats and go "oh, he's pretty good").

Orrr... Maybe there really isn't a dominant goal tender right now (Lundqvist is as close as we are going to get) and fans, and media, are just desperate to throw labels. Someone has to have the elite label...otherwise the world would implode. Had one elite season? He must be elite! Forget the guy who's putting up 92.0 2.25. stats every year... 9.09, 9.10, 9.01, 91.8, 92.9, 9.02 is much better! He's elite..

Sorry for the rant...It turned into more of the HFboards mindset after awhile. heh


Last edited by Dynheart: 03-30-2013 at 11:25 PM.
Dynheart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2013, 11:12 PM
  #27
GoAwayDanCleary
DRWCC
 
GoAwayDanCleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 10,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
And I know it's blasphemy, but I would argue that Brodeur has been overrated in his career as well. His main value comes from his unprecedented longevity and great career playoff performance rather than his peak abilities.

I know stats aren't everything. But people say Jimmy has been sheltered by playing behind Lidstrom which is why his stats are good. Why doesn't that hold true for Rinne in regards to Suter/Weber over the years?

I guess my question is, if Rinne is "elite" and Howard is just above average (according to most)...why have Rinne's abilities, playing in a defensive system that limits quality shots, and playing with 2 top 10 D-men not led to better goalie performance (stat wise)?
Agreed with Brodeur.

It's all really just popularity.

GoAwayDanCleary is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2013, 11:36 PM
  #28
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Uhh, OK. Since when is Fleury a top-eight goalie? Did the authors not watch him in the playoffs last season? And an aging Brodeur at #6? A past-his-prime Miller at #7? Are these people completely living in the past?
Since going to the finals and winning the cup.
Millers gets a lot of love.

To be honest, I don't think there's an elite-level class of goalie like there once was -- when Roy, Hasek, Brodeur and maybe Belfour were obviously above everyone else.

But I still think Howard's a full step below the best goalies -- Lundquist, Price, etc.

Looking at this list, it sure seems like goalies like Smith and Anderson are totally overrated. I've never believed in Rinne that much, either.

You see guys like Hiller get hurt and Fasth step in and look great. But then everytime I watch him, he looks like crap.

I think Howie is a solid NHL goalie. I wonder about his temperament a bit -- and is he's got the right personality to be a cup winning goalie

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2013, 11:46 PM
  #29
Heaton
Moderator
Holland = nomorecups
 
Heaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rochester, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 20,778
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Heaton
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Since going to the finals and winning the cup.
Millers gets a lot of love.

To be honest, I don't think there's an elite-level class of goalie like there once was -- when Roy, Hasek, Brodeur and maybe Belfour were obviously above everyone else.

But I still think Howard's a full step below the best goalies -- Lundquist, Price, etc.

Looking at this list, it sure seems like goalies like Smith and Anderson are totally overrated. I've never believed in Rinne that much, either.

You see guys like Hiller get hurt and Fasth step in and look great. But then everytime I watch him, he looks like crap.

I think Howie is a solid NHL goalie. I wonder about his temperament a bit -- and is he's got the right personality to be a cup winning goalie
There's one big time goalie in the NHL right now and I think it's Lundqvist. Rinne is close and Quick is right there too - but the rest of them are all toss ups. Rinne getting 7m is basically Nashville's way of always being right in or around the playoffs, but not much more. An internal capped team paying a goalie 7m for 7 years is killer.

Heaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 01:46 AM
  #30
Bench
Moderator
#notmyroof
 
Bench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Twin Peaks
Posts: 11,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
There's one big time goalie in the NHL right now and I think it's Lundqvist.
This a thousand times. Lundqvist is the real deal. He's incredible. I watch a ton of Ranger games just to see him in net. It's a thing of beauty we haven't seen since the Belfour/Roy/Hasek era.

He's unbeatable when he's having a big night and routinely has made an uneven New York team look like Cup contenders when in reality they've got some issues to fix despite their top heavy lineup.

Bench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 01:49 AM
  #31
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
This a thousand times. Lundqvist is the real deal. He's incredible. I watch a ton of Ranger games just to see him in net. It's a thing of beauty we haven't seen since the Belfour/Roy/Hasek era.

He's unbeatable when he's having a big night and routinely has made an uneven New York team look like Cup contenders when in reality they've got some issues to fix despite their top heavy lineup.
I think Lundquist is drastically overrated.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 01:57 AM
  #32
Bench
Moderator
#notmyroof
 
Bench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Twin Peaks
Posts: 11,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
I think Lundquist is drastically overrated.
It shows. You can't even bother to learn how to spell his name.

I thought you typoed, but that's twice now, so ya know.

Bench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:17 AM
  #33
detredWINgs
Registered User
 
detredWINgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 17,966
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
As if this matters. Backstrom and Miller have each had one exceptional season. Niemi wasn't at all spectacular in his run to the Cup. And it would be silly to say that Bryzgalov won a Cup. He started only four games in those playoffs. And you're forgetting Carey Price anyway.

More, Howard, with his .924 save percentage and 37 wins despite playing behind an injury-riddled team, fully deserved to be in Vezina contention in 2010. Instead, Brodeur (.916) inexplicably ended up there instead. Lundquist, Rask, Anderson, and Nabokov ended up in front of him also. This made no sense, and was most likely because of two factors: 1) He was a rookie; and 2) Nicklas Lidstrom. It was ridiculous, either way.
No. Being nominated for Vezinas and winning Stanley Cups has no bearing on your contract.

And Bryzgalov was nominated for a ****ing Vezina. Like it or not, those nominations get you big money.

detredWINgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 09:29 AM
  #34
GT500x
Im OK where we're at
 
GT500x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: My comfort zone
Country: United States
Posts: 2,663
vCash: 500
Fans here won't be happy unless we have the undisputed #1 goal tender in the league. Anyone else sucks.

GT500x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 01:26 PM
  #35
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Games like today...Howie proponents need to remember games like today

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 01:28 PM
  #36
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
It shows. You can't even bother to learn how to spell his name.

I thought you typoed, but that's twice now, so ya know.
Who are you to decide how his name is spelled?

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 01:36 PM
  #37
Dexter Colt
Registered User
 
Dexter Colt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mendham, NJ
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Games like today...Howie proponents need to remember games like today
Sensible people would remember both the good and the bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Who are you to decide how his name is spelled?
It's a known fact that it's spelled Lundqvist.

Dexter Colt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 01:44 PM
  #38
Dynheart
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Games like today...Howie proponents need to remember games like today
Can you honestly blame him other than the second goal, though? Kronwall bats the puck towards the empty side (then gets own on his own mistake) of the net AFTER Howie bats it away. I mean wtf.

The second goal...he should have read that better.

Kindl...I mean, wtf was he thinking back handing it in his own goal.

The fourth goal he had no chance, and was lucky enough to get a piece of the puck (point blank shot from Toews...that puck wasn't even on his stick for a second.).

Moments later the Monster let's in a shortside goal five hole...

Wasn't a great game, but this is a team loss...not a goalie **** up.

Dynheart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:05 PM
  #39
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynheart View Post
Can you honestly blame him other than the second goal, though? Kronwall bats the puck towards the empty side (then gets own on his own mistake) of the net AFTER Howie bats it away. I mean wtf.

The second goal...he should have read that better.

Kindl...I mean, wtf was he thinking back handing it in his own goal.

The fourth goal he had no chance, and was lucky enough to get a piece of the puck (point blank shot from Toews...that puck wasn't even on his stick for a second.).

Moments later the Monster let's in a shortside goal five hole...

Wasn't a great game, but this is a team loss...not a goalie **** up.

I blame Howie for the first goal more than most.
Bad goal early. Soft second goal.
2-0 2 minutes in?
GOalie gets blame for that, for sure

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:06 PM
  #40
obey86
Registered User
 
obey86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Games like today...Howie proponents need to remember games like today
Pekka Rinne has been pulled three times for poor performance in the past 2 weeks. Guess he sucks too. Rinne proponents need to remember games like those.










It's one game. In the big scope of things it means nothing. It happens to every goalie multiple times over the course of a season.

obey86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:10 PM
  #41
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
Pekka Rinne has been pulled three times for poor performance in the past 2 weeks. Guess he sucks too. Rinne proponents need to remember games like those.










It's one game. In the big scope of things it means nothing. It happens to every goalie multiple times over the course of a season.
What are you shaking your head for?
You don't think Howie should be called out when he has a bad game? Do you want to pretend he doesn't have bad games?

He should be shielded from ALL criticism?

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:12 PM
  #42
obey86
Registered User
 
obey86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
What are you shaking your head for?
You don't think Howie should be called out when he has a bad game? Do you want to pretend he doesn't have bad games?

He should be shielded from ALL criticism?
I think your "Howie proponents should remember games like today" comment was dumb considering every friggin goalie in the NHL has similar games throughout the course of a season. You said that as if this single game was evidence of him being average at best or overrated as a goalie. It's a single bad game. That's it. It doesn't prove anything to the "Howie proponents" anymore than him getting a shutout in a single game would have.

That's why i'm shaking my head.

I have no problem with someone saying he played poorly today. I have a problem with someone insinuating this game is evidence of him not being as good as the "Howie proponents" believe.

obey86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:21 PM
  #43
Zetterberg4Captain
Registered User
 
Zetterberg4Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 500
Howard is right in line with guys like lehtonen and pavelec and probably fleury

Zetterberg4Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:22 PM
  #44
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: 864
Country: Argentina
Posts: 20,419
vCash: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Games like today...Howie proponents need to remember games like today
Every goalie in the league has games like the one today. What's your point?

SoupNazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:24 PM
  #45
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
I think your "Howie proponents should remember games like today" comment was dumb considering every friggin goalie in the NHL has similar games throughout the course of a season. You said that as if this single game was evidence of him being average at best or overrated as a goalie. It's a single bad game. That's it. It doesn't prove anything to the "Howie proponents" anymore than him getting a shutout in a single game would have.

That's why i'm shaking my head.

I have no problem with someone saying he played poorly today. I have a problem with someone insinuating this game is evidence of him not being as good as the "Howie proponents" believe.
When I say "howie proponents," I'm talking about the people who think Howie is a top 5 goalie in the league, and who believe that Howie is EASILY worth the reported $30M, 6Y deal being offered.

This is hardly the first time Howie has stained the sheets this year. But it is the first time since this thread was posted.

Sorry you think "reality" is dumb

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:28 PM
  #46
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
Howard is right in line with guys like lehtonen and pavelec and probably fleury
Fleury won a cup and went to the finals another time.
Howard is not in his class. Maybe the other two guys.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:28 PM
  #47
obey86
Registered User
 
obey86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
When I say "howie proponents," I'm talking about the people who think Howie is a top 5 goalie in the league, and who believe that Howie is EASILY worth the reported $30M, 6Y deal being offered.

This is hardly the first time Howie has stained the sheets this year. But it is the first time since this thread was posted.

Sorry you think "reality" is dumb
Rinne has had three similar stinkers/stained sheet games just in the past 2 weeks. Is that also proof he isn't a top 5 goalie in your mind?

Sorry you are over the top in every single one of your Red Wings thoughts. Didn't realize it was "you" considering you change your user name all the time.

obey86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:54 PM
  #48
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
Rinne has had three similar stinkers/stained sheet games just in the past 2 weeks. Is that also proof he isn't a top 5 goalie in your mind?

Sorry you are over the top in every single one of your Red Wings thoughts. Didn't realize it was "you" considering you change your user name all the time.
Wow.

If you read this thread, I've made my position clear on Howie. One game doesn't change my opinion on Howie.

Evidently, you don't want to read. You want to be a fanboy who talks about how every other big name goalie in the NHL is overrated -- but Jimmy -- don't call out Jimmy.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 03:06 PM
  #49
obey86
Registered User
 
obey86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Wow.

If you read this thread, I've made my position clear on Howie. One game doesn't change my opinion on Howie.

Evidently, you don't want to read. You want to be a fanboy who talks about how every other big name goalie in the NHL is overrated -- but Jimmy -- don't call out Jimmy.
I read. You tried using this game as validation of your opinion of the caliber of player Jimmy is. Sorry if you can't realize what you did and how dumb it was.

obey86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 05:11 PM
  #50
pucky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,097
vCash: 500
Howard is overrated especially by Wings fans.

M. Smith is better, for e.g.. He proved it last year in the playoffs. 'Stood on his head. It's laughable that it's the 'Coyotes'' system when he was getting how many shots a game?

Hey, that poster's comments were good for a laugh.

pucky is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.