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NHL in Houston

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Old
03-21-2013, 05:14 AM
  #126
Sports
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Originally Posted by OKCDevil View Post
There is some debate in my head on the below map, but its about 90 percent correct. The biggest change I'd make is to push West Texas up to where the Red River and where the Red River stops being the northern border with Oklahoma. West Texas is huge. But, for the sake of this discussion, the regions around DFW and Houston are pretty spot on.

Pretty much the entire right half of North Texas on that map considers themselves East, not North.

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03-21-2013, 10:55 AM
  #127
tony d
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I think a Houston franchise would work for the NHL. It's such a big city that they will have fans out to games. Also aside from the Texans in the NHL their other pro sports teams are terrible.

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03-21-2013, 02:05 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post

Atlanta
1972-80 - NHL
1992-96 - IHL
1993-99 - Atlanta Fire Ants - RHI
1999-11 - NHL
23 seasons + 7 = 30

here. Fixed it for ya. A wash Ladies & Gentlemen.
Actually, you can also add in the ECHL's Gwinnett Gladiators, who are in their 10th season in suburban ATL.

And to (sort of) head back on topic, I think BOTH Atlanta and Houston could be good NHL towns given the proper ownership, arena situation and competitiveness.


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03-23-2013, 01:38 AM
  #129
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The rumblings are growing slightly louder from Houston that the Aeros may be on the way out (and headed to Iowa). They've been there since 1995, when they were an IHL expansion team, and were eventually absorbed into the AHL. They've been something of an institution ever since, and are owned directly by the Minnesota Wild.

Possible reasons for a move, as I see it:
1) Minnesota is losing money on the Aeros (not likely)
2) Minnesota wants an affiliate closer to their home base (nonsensical, to me. The travel and logistical costs can't be that much different, and the recent failings of the AHL in Iowa has to be a consideration.)
3) It's been said for years that the Aeros would only move to make way for an NHL team. Is it possible that Houston is trying to grab a team through the backdoor (or is finalizing something as we speak) and is pushing the Aeros out?

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Old
03-23-2013, 07:39 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The rumblings are growing slightly louder from Houston that the Aeros may be on the way out (and headed to Iowa). They've been there since 1995, when they were an IHL expansion team, and were eventually absorbed into the AHL. They've been something of an institution ever since, and are owned directly by the Minnesota Wild.

Possible reasons for a move, as I see it:
1) Minnesota is losing money on the Aeros (not likely)
2) Minnesota wants an affiliate closer to their home base (nonsensical, to me. The travel and logistical costs can't be that much different, and the recent failings of the AHL in Iowa has to be a consideration.)
3) It's been said for years that the Aeros would only move to make way for an NHL team. Is it possible that Houston is trying to grab a team through the backdoor (or is finalizing something as we speak) and is pushing the Aeros out?
I think #2 is the most likely reason as nonsensical as it sounds. NHL teams wanting the farm club closer to home is becoming a more common trend even if the $$$$ doesn't add up. For example MLSE moving their farm team from St. John's where they sold out practically every game to Toronto where they more or less an afterthought outside of a deep playoff run or lockouts.

If #3 was on the radar, I think there would be more noise (and denials) on the NHL team coming. You would want the NHL team secured before the Aeros are shipped out of town.

Unless Mr. Alexander has a change of heart I don't see the NHL coming. If the Aeros do bolt, another AHL team will likely move in as I don't think #1 is likely either

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03-23-2013, 02:22 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Possible reasons for a move, as I see it:
The only reason for a move would be because of their lease deal.

They don't have a deal at the end of the season with the Toyota Center. Nothing has been updated on it since January when they said they were still in negotiations.

Has nothing to do with the other 3 things you said. If they get a new lease deal done, they're staying.

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03-23-2013, 03:53 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Texas has more minor league teams then Canada.
As in Minor Professional league teams or Junior league teams? Cause of the AHL, ECHL, CHL, SPHL, FHL, and LNAH leagues (All minor pro leagues) Canada has more than Texas.

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03-23-2013, 04:25 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
I think #2 is the most likely reason as nonsensical as it sounds. NHL teams wanting the farm club closer to home is becoming a more common trend even if the $$$$ doesn't add up. For example MLSE moving their farm team from St. John's where they sold out practically every game to Toronto where they more or less an afterthought outside of a deep playoff run or lockouts.

If #3 was on the radar, I think there would be more noise (and denials) on the NHL team coming. You would want the NHL team secured before the Aeros are shipped out of town.

Unless Mr. Alexander has a change of heart I don't see the NHL coming. If the Aeros do bolt, another AHL team will likely move in as I don't think #1 is likely either
The same reason MLSE left St. John's, mightygoose, is the same reason why as Stars said, is the lease, the same thing happened when SJSE offered the lease extension in year 15, but also every other market that had surrounded the Leafs(now Marlies) HAD elected to go to the Junior route aka the QMJHL beginning w/ Moncton in '94, even St. John's briefly acquired the Junior from Montreal (now the Blainville-Broisbriand Armada) AND IT still had the MLSE logos when the Ice Caps arrived from Winnipeg... you have to remember Ricoh was at the center of why MLSE established the Marlies there after Lyle Abraham's debacle stint of the Road Runners being leased to Edmonton, and then the abrupt lockout of that team after 2003-04 from Ricoh, and the abrupt relo to Edmonton in August of '04 (now OKC)

there's a slight misconception about the Aeros also, yes, MSE, aka the Wild, operate the Aeros but, they aren't fully owned /operated by MSE, IT'S AN 80/20 role and has been since Chuck Watson owns the Aeros name.

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03-27-2013, 05:19 PM
  #134
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Isn't the situation with Alexander is that he has no interest in an NHL team (at the moment?) and the lease there states he needs to own the team for it to play at the Toyota Center? That pretty much kills any incoming franchise unless either, A) this stance changes or B) a new ownership group builds their own arena.

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03-27-2013, 07:11 PM
  #135
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May the best hockey market win

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03-27-2013, 09:27 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by pucky View Post
Isn't the situation with Alexander is that he has no interest in an NHL team (at the moment?) and the lease there states he needs to own the team for it to play at the Toyota Center? That pretty much kills any incoming franchise unless either, A) this stance changes or B) a new ownership group builds their own arena.
Alexander has to give a fair deal if an owner wants to bring it in to Houston per the arena deal, if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure kdb has posted it around here somewhere.

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03-27-2013, 09:42 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by hurricanedave View Post
As in Minor Professional league teams or Junior league teams? Cause of the AHL, ECHL, CHL, SPHL, FHL, and LNAH leagues (All minor pro leagues) Canada has more than Texas.
minor pro

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Old
03-27-2013, 09:55 PM
  #138
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Instant rivalry with

Yeah I'm sure this has been said over and over again

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Old
03-27-2013, 10:04 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Alexander has to give a fair deal if an owner wants to bring it in to Houston per the arena deal, if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure kdb has posted it around here somewhere.
No. The "Commercially Reasonable" lease deal applies to the Aeros - not an NHL team.

An NHL team must be offered a lease, but they would receive only game day revenues - but not revenues from luxury boxes (unless suite owners pay an extra NHL specific fee) , advertising, sponsorships, naming rights, or any non-hockey events.

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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
I thought a Houston team can only go through 1 person as well?
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Depends. Apparently, there's some clause that stipulates that Les Alexander, the guy who almost bought the Oilers and currently the owner of the Houston Rockets, has to own an NHL team if they want to play in his arena, though I don't know if there's a caveat where he can be a tiny minority owner or if that's something that an be easily reworked or not.
An NHL team doesn't have to be owned by Alexander - it's just that the terms of Alexander's lease agreement make any other ownership not economically viable. Alexander would be forced to offer them a lease under terms dictated by the county, but the team would only get game day revenues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209
I finally found some specific information on Alexander's lease on the Toyota Center and specific terms with the Harris County Sports Authority concerning an NHL tenant (owned by Alexander or someone else).

http://basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/...s/newindex.htm

Quote:
Arena Maintenance: The Rockets will be responsible for arena operating expenses except for a $1.6 million annual capital repairs fund provided by the Sports Authority.
Arena Revenues: The Rockets will receive all the revenues from events at the arena with the exception of hockey if owned by someone other than Les Alexander.
Naming Rights: The Rockets will receive 95% of the naming rights. The city recieves 5%.
Parking Revenue: The Rockets receive parking revenue for their events including the Rockets, Comets and Thunderbears. The city receives ALL other parking revenue.

Hockey Use: An NHL team would receive its game-night revenues including parking and pay only what the Sports Authority determines. They could receive a subsidy from the Authority to offset losses. NO advantage will be given to the Rockets in acquiring an NHL team. The Aeros will be accomodated at fair market value or will be allowed to continue playing in the Compaq Center.

...

What about the NHL and the Aeros?

The Sports Authority included specific provisions for an NHL team should one decide to relocate here or be bought by a local owner other than Les Alexander. The Authority will have the ability to provide a subsidy to an NHL team to help them be financially successful in an arena owned and operated by another owner.

The Aeros have been provided for in the deal as well. The Rockets are required to give the Aeros a fair-market deal under the terms of this agreement if the Aeros choose to play in the new arena. They are also free to continue playing in the Compaq Center.

...

* The NBA Club will pay an annual rent of $8.5 million.

...

* The NBA Club will be responsible for all operating, maintenance and capital repair costs and other expenses related to the Arena and will cause the Arena to be operated, improved and maintained in first class condition. The Sports Authority will contribute $1.5 million annually to a maintenance fund, which payment will be subordinate to the rent support debt.

* The NBA Club will receive all revenues from all events, including naming rights and advertising rights. However, the City of Houston will receive 5% of naming rights (up to $200,000 annually).

...

* If NHL hockey comes to Houston, the NHL Team is entitled to play its games in the Arena. The NHL Team to receive game-day revenue, but not naming rights, permanent advertising, suite premiums (other than incremental amounts paid by suite holders attributable to the NHL Team). The NHL Team may be asked to pay the Sports Authority a one-time "buy-in" payment and may receive a to-be determined operating payment from the Sports Authority. An NHL Team brought to the Arena that is affiliated with the NBA Club will not pay rent or receive the operating payment unless otherwise agreed.

...

* The Houston Aeros will be permitted to play in the Arena pursuant to a commercially reasonable lease.

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03-27-2013, 10:54 PM
  #140
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No. The "Commercially Reasonable" lease deal applies to the Aeros - not an NHL team.

An NHL team must be offered a lease, but they would receive only game day revenues - but not revenues from luxury boxes (unless suite owners pay an extra NHL specific fee) , advertising, sponsorships, naming rights, or any non-hockey events.
Is that lease negotiable when it comes to an NHL franchise not owned by Alexander?

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Old
03-30-2013, 10:31 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The rumblings are growing slightly louder from Houston that the Aeros may be on the way out (and headed to Iowa). They've been there since 1995, when they were an IHL expansion team, and were eventually absorbed into the AHL. They've been something of an institution ever since, and are owned directly by the Minnesota Wild.

Possible reasons for a move, as I see it:
1) Minnesota is losing money on the Aeros (not likely)
2) Minnesota wants an affiliate closer to their home base (nonsensical, to me. The travel and logistical costs can't be that much different, and the recent failings of the AHL in Iowa has to be a consideration.)
3) It's been said for years that the Aeros would only move to make way for an NHL team. Is it possible that Houston is trying to grab a team through the backdoor (or is finalizing something as we speak) and is pushing the Aeros out?
Actually, the current version of the Aeros started in 1994.

As of yesterday, the Wild are still in negotiations with the Toyota Center, no mention of talks with another city. Current lease wasn't signed until the end of April 2008.

Unlikely Le$ Alexander is buying an NHL team. Not really any for sale except the Yotes, and Le$ is not as rich as he used to be.

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Old
03-30-2013, 11:50 PM
  #142
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I think Atlanta and Phoenix have shown that population levels and per capita GDP don't lead to a place being a hockey market.
Exactly! epic fail!

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Old
03-31-2013, 05:38 PM
  #143
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YES to NHL in Houston.

Gang,

As a Houston native who has periodically brought this topic up on this board, I would like to again advocate Houston as a potential NHL market.

It is true that as long as Les Alexander owns the Rockets, getting an NHL team will be hard, because he would have to be the owner.

OTOH, an 18,000 seat state of the art, hockey capable arena is ready. Houston does have a very large potential fan base. First of all, it's America's fourth largest city and 10th largest TV market. Second of all, many people have moved here from other parts of the country, including many places where hockey is big. Third, the Aeros IHL/AHL team has now been playing here successfully for some 19 seasons. Just imagine what the NHL, a MAJOR LEAGUE franchise could do! Finally, Houston has a GREAT history. While in the WHA, the original Houston Aeros with Gordie Howe (see my avatar) won TWO titles.

Dallas, of course, provides us with a natural rivalry, one which already exists in other sports (and which will get bigger now that the Astros will be playing the Rangers more regularly as members of the MLB American League West!).

As for the fear that our market will cannibalize the Dallas Stars' market. Come on now. The two cities are a five hour drive away. The Dallas Stars receive VERY LITTLE support from Houston. They aren't even covered in the Houston newspapers. Houstonians that follow an NHL team usually DON'T follow the Stars. I for example, support the Washington Capitals, since I'm stationed in the DC area now. But if Houston ever received an NHL franchise, I'd quickly become their biggest fan!

In any event, don't worry about Houston cannibalizing the Dallas market. The two markets are completely separate and have hardly any overlap in following.

And if we do get an NHL franchise, then for both historical reasons, and because Houston remains the NASA headquarters, the team should be called either the Aeros or the Apollos. I'd bring back the originally WHA colors.

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03-31-2013, 06:29 PM
  #144
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Gang... support the Washington Capitals, since I'm stationed in the DC area now.... Houston remains the NASA headquarters...
I think you mean Earthlings & not Gang there uhlaw (dead giveaway is that Sumerian name btw)... and Houston huh?... Nasa... and you say your "currently stationed in the DC area"... interesting.... where we talkin here? Remote Viewing Division out at Langley? Reverse Engineering & flight simulations of you know what on Wallops Island? Perhaps assigned to the Medical Informatics & Technology Application Consortium at VCU Hospital working on the latest versions of 7of9, 8of11, 9of12? If you want an NHL franchise in Houston seems to me an easy enough matter... all those otherworldly resources at your fingertips. Childs play in fact. Develop & sign some Hybrids, Cup's yours for keeps.


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03-31-2013, 09:10 PM
  #145
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I think a Houston franchise would work for the NHL. It's such a big city that they will have fans out to games. Also aside from the Texans in the NHL their other pro sports teams are terrible.
Really now?

I guess that's why the Dynamo have won two MLS titles, made it to the Finals four times, and are a favorite to win it this year.

I guess that's why the Rockets have won two NBA titles, been to the Finals four times, and are in playoff contention this season.

I guess that's why the Comets won four straight WNBA titles back in the day.

I guess that's why the Texans have made the NFL playoffs and won playoff victories and division titles each of the last two seasons.

I guess that's why the original Aeros won two WHA titles. Hell, even the new Aeros have won an IHL title, an AHL title, and made the finals on other occasions.

I realize the Astros have had a few bad seasons, but don't over-generalize based on that.

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03-31-2013, 09:18 PM
  #146
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Astros were really good 10 years ago, too.

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03-31-2013, 09:43 PM
  #147
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Astros were really good 10 years ago, too.
And now coming off MLB worst 106 & 107 loss seasons - well, their entire team payroll is less than what the Yankees are paying an injured ARod not to play.

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03-31-2013, 10:01 PM
  #148
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The Astros are an anomaly and shouldn't be used to justify anything right now.

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03-31-2013, 10:04 PM
  #149
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And now coming off MLB worst 106 & 107 loss seasons - well, their entire team payroll is less than what the Yankees are paying an injured ARod not to play.
Is this true? I know nothing about Baseball, but their salary discrepancy is ridiculous.

I remember back in the day the Yankees signed a late 30's/early 40's Roger Clemens to a contract where he refused to travel with the team and would therefore only play home games for more than the entire roster of division rival Tampa Bay Devil Rays ...I thought it had gotten a little better...

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03-31-2013, 10:05 PM
  #150
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Is this true? I know nothing about Baseball, but their salary discrepancy is ridiculous.

I remember back in the day the Yankees signed a late 30's/early 40's Roger Clemens to a contract where he refused to travel with the team and would therefore only play home games for more than the entire roster of division rival Tampa Bay Devil Rays ...I thought it had gotten a little better...
Yes but they are doing a complete rebuild after trades and aging stars basically gutted their organization from top to bottom. There's no point in going out and signing a Kyle Lohse for $40 million just so you can say you lost 100 games instead of 105 so they're just signing cheap stop gaps to fill positions of need while their prospects develop.

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