HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

David Desharnais - Black or White Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-31-2013, 10:42 PM
  #376
Milhouse40
Registered User
 
Milhouse40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Since his slow start (since the game against Toronto); Desharnais has 15-points in 22-games and is a +4.

Is that really that bad?

He struggled for a handful of games a week or two ago, but he's been better the last few games. He's not as consistent as Eller or Plekanec, performance wise, but he's always giving 100% and he's producing alright since his slow start.
It's a way to see it....since then he has been allright....well i could also said that he's been good only for 2 weeks this season

5 points his first 13 games
10 points in 9 games
5 points in his last 12 games

But that's not the point.....he is playing better than in the beginning of the season.
Still we don't see him as much as we were used to last season.

Milhouse40 is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 10:48 PM
  #377
Milhouse40
Registered User
 
Milhouse40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Seriously, now you're just reaching. You can find those types of points for any player in the NHL.

The goal against the Rangers... if that was anyone else, you would be praising them for going hard to the net. Desharnais? You whine about him going to the net to bash him. PS. The puck didn't hit him, he tried to kick it to his stick and got taken down.

Second goal.. again, if it was another player it would be "Great breakout pass to create a good scoring chance." Desharnais? "Oh look at that tiny pass.. what a lucky guy." Fact is, Desharnais got back and got the puck out of trouble before giving a good outlet pass to Gallagher.

Third goal? I'm not even going to bother commenting on that because that was obviously a lucky goal.. and a lucky point for Pacioretty too. Desharnais has had plenty of great passes that didn't end up in the net because of great saves, etc. It evens out.

Eller and Desharnais aren't competing for the same spot. Just like Et Le But said. Eller is a 2-way forward who is being used in that spot and doing a fantastic job
Seriously...read my post again...i did say that ALL players get these kind of points, even Crosby! I just wanted to prove a points (which you didn't get)....evaluating a player ony on his points productions is ridiculous because of those points.

And because we see hundreds of better play, great hockey play, and the players never get points for them (including DD as well....)

Points doesn't tell all you need to know about a player

And i'm well aware the Eller is a 2-way.......just as Plekanec....who is doing better than our all-offensive center (and surprisingly THAT don't seems to bother a lot of poeple)....


Last edited by Milhouse40: 03-31-2013 at 10:57 PM.
Milhouse40 is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 10:51 PM
  #378
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Seriously...read my post again...i did say that ALL players get these kind of points, even Crosby! I just wanted to prove a points (which you didn't get)....evaluating a player ony on his points productions is ridiculous because of those points.

And because we see hundreds of better play, great hockey play, and the players never get points for them (including DD as well....)

Points doesn't tell all you need to know about a player

Stop trying to defend DD so much......
The thing is -- DD gets so much unwarranted (and stupid) criticism, that at some point, some users start to defend him.

Even Gomez wasn't criticized as harshly last season. And DD plays much better than Gomez ever did with us in year 2 and 3.

MXD is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 10:55 PM
  #379
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Points always points.....don't matter how, why or when somebody played....it's always about points in the end....



Here's a point for you.....down on his ass and puck hit tim. 1 points


Here's another point......if you wonder, he is the one making the small pass behind the Price's net.


And of course...on Pacioretty's goal


You see....all players got those points which they didn't really diserve.
And sometimes, players do incredible play....and don't get point for them.

So the defense of "he made as many points as"......is ridiculous.

They're is so much more than points that matters.
Why do we keep Prust? Why do we keep Gorges?

Cause they bring more than offensive to the teamwith them, they are usefull in many ways.....just like Eller does (most agressive forechecker on the team....without competition right now), and Eller also bring defensive awareness, size, lots of hits and a really good offensive output considering his icetime/linesmates/NOPP and evertything else, can play wing or center, can play 2nd-3rd-4th line if needed.

we...at least i, don't trash DD for his offensive production, which is a big plus for the team......but he doesn't bring ANYTHING else to the table as Eller does.....well, he brings a very poor defensive game. which is a big minus for the team...both are cancelling each other out!!! What does he brings then?
What's your point exactly? DD is a bad player because he makes points? Or because you found 3 videos on youtube of "lucky points", so therefore, making points for him is detrimental to his value, or something like that?

So according to you, I suppose that since Wayne Simmonds scored with his face on the following video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suNw31Kxviw), it means he's a bad player?

That you took the time to find those videos and post them to make your point is really something. Don't go on after trying to defend yourself by saying you were not actually trying to make that point. Do you have any evidence that DD has more "lucky points" than other players? If not, then what's your point?

Every player makes lucky points? Sure. It's a small fraction of their point totals. So because of that, "points" should not be highly valued to evaluate the quality of a player? Is that really your point? Seriously?

Like it or not, the best way to win games in the hockey sport is to score goals or help your teamates score goals. You're losing your time trying to convince anyone here that DD is a bad player because he makes points or because his points are lucky points. DD, like many other players, creates his own luck by good positioning, by good passing and by crashing the net despite his small size.

You would have a point if DD was totally putrid defensively or if he refused to backcheck like Pavel Bure used to, but it's not the case. As someone said, he's +4 in his last 22 games. What else do you want?


Last edited by One Man Rock Band: 03-31-2013 at 11:17 PM.
DDs not undersized is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:17 PM
  #380
Milhouse40
Registered User
 
Milhouse40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I'd like to nominate that post as the worst post of the year.

What's your point exactly? DD is a bad player because he makes points? Or because you found 3 videos on youtube of "lucky points", so therefore, making points for him is detrimental to his value, or something like that?

So according to you, I suppose that since Wayne Simmonds scored with his face on the following video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suNw31Kxviw), it means he's a bad player?

That you took the time to find those videos and post them to make your point is really something. Don't go on after trying to defend yourself by saying you were not actually trying to make that point. Do you have any evidence that DD has more "lucky points" than other players? If not, then what's your point?

Every player makes lucky points? Sure. It's a small fraction of their point totals. So because of that, "points" should not be highly valued to evaluate the quality of a player? Is that really your point? Seriously?

Like it or not, the best way to win games in the hockey sport is to score goals or help your teamates score goals. You're losing your time trying to convince anyone here that DD is a bad player because he makes points or because his points are lucky points. DD, like many other players, creates his own luck by good positioning, by good passing and by crashing the net despite his small size.

You would have a point if DD was totally putrid defensively or if he refused to backcheck like Pavel Bure used to, but it's not the case. As someone said, he's +4 in his last 22 games. What else do you want?
And you get the nomination for not being able to understand a post.

I did write that ALL PLAYERS GETS THIS TYPE OF POINTS.
Just ALL PLAYERS will do incredible play and gets rob by a goalie so they don't get point for making way better hockey plays than those lucky goals...including DD as well

DD should have made points on many way better hockey plays beside the ones in those videos but didn't....got rob by goalie.

Saying that one player is better or as good as another player because he made as many or more points than him......is stupid! ONLY points cannot tell you everything you need to know about a player and you know that.

Milhouse40 is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:17 PM
  #381
One Man Rock Band
Slater's Gonna Slate
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Seriously...read my post again...i did say that ALL players get these kind of points, even Crosby! I just wanted to prove a points (which you didn't get)....evaluating a player ony on his points productions is ridiculous because of those points.

And because we see hundreds of better play, great hockey play, and the players never get points for them (including DD as well....)

Points doesn't tell all you need to know about a player

And i'm well aware the Eller is a 2-way.......just as Plekanec....who is doing better than our all-offensive center (and surprisingly THAT don't seems to bother a lot of poeple)....
Fair enough, I didn't get what your were saying. I apologize.

However, MXD's post right below yours is exactly how I feel.

One Man Rock Band is online now  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:27 PM
  #382
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
The thing is -- DD gets so much unwarranted (and stupid) criticism, that at some point, some users start to defend him.

Even Gomez wasn't criticized as harshly last season. And DD plays much better than Gomez ever did with us in year 2 and 3.
I agree. On many occasions in the past, I posted here that I thought that we should trade DD in the offseason to get bigger up front.

But damn, I am not the GM. Bergevin re-upped him with a fair contract and he is producing for the Habs. And the end result is that he is helping the Habs toward a playoff run as part of the team.

To continue to post negatively about a player who is doing well quickly devolves into whining. Petty and obsessive whining.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:28 PM
  #383
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,282
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
The thing is -- DD gets so much unwarranted (and stupid) criticism, that at some point, some users start to defend him.

Even Gomez wasn't criticized as harshly last season. And DD plays much better than Gomez ever did with us in year 2 and 3.
That's pretty much it. He's not a fantastic player by any means but at a certain point someone's gotta argue against the criticism. It's not warranted. He's flawed but when you hear people say "buyout candidate" it's only normal someone will say "what are you talking about?"

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:29 PM
  #384
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
The thing is -- DD gets so much unwarranted (and stupid) criticism, that at some point, some users start to defend him.

Even Gomez wasn't criticized as harshly last season. And DD plays much better than Gomez ever did with us in year 2 and 3.
It's posts like this that swing the pendulum in the complete opposite direction. Hated more than gomez? That's ludicrous. There's like 3 people really bashing DD in this thread. The entire board wanted Gomez assassinated last year. Come on. Now a DD basher will try to one up your DD defending and so on and so forth. And that's how this thread gets bogged down with ridiculous garbage.

overlords is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:30 PM
  #385
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Even Gomez wasn't criticized as harshly last season.
Not sure if serious.

Et le But is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:33 PM
  #386
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,752
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
The thing is -- DD gets so much unwarranted (and stupid) criticism, that at some point, some users start to defend him.

Even Gomez wasn't criticized as harshly last season. And DD plays much better than Gomez ever did with us in year 2 and 3.
That's just plain false. DD has never played as badly, nor received the same hate/ridicule, as Gomez at any point. DD gets plenty of rational defense without the fanboy aspect making him even harder to accept.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:34 PM
  #387
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,282
vCash: 50
I think people are focusing too much on the Gomez comparison of his post. The rest is accurate.

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:34 PM
  #388
pine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,116
vCash: 50
I won't name names, but some people should get a room: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/mi...sted&t=1384841

pine is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:34 PM
  #389
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
It's posts like this that swing the pendulum in the complete opposite direction. Hated more than gomez? That's ludicrous. There's like 3 people really bashing DD in this thread. The entire board wanted Gomez assassinated last year. Come on. Now a DD basher will try to one up your DD defending and so on and so forth. And that's how this thread gets bogged down with ridiculous garbage.
A good and probably productive idea is to bump up the Eller thread again. That way, Eller lovers who are also DD bashers could post all of their repetitive hatred for the man who is taking the "rightful" 2nd line away from Eller there.

And then this thread could be used for the people who support DD and dont really see a need to bash Eller when DD has a bad night.

I think it would work.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:36 PM
  #390
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think people are focusing too much on the Gomez comparison of his post. The rest is accurate.
It's half his post.

The first half goes on about unfair and irrational DD bashing and the second half is an insane and irrational defense.

Black and white, indeed.

overlords is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:36 PM
  #391
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,282
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine View Post
I won't name names, but some people should get a room: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/mi...sted&t=1384841
Are you paying?

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:36 PM
  #392
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,752
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think people are focusing too much on the Gomez comparison of his post. The rest is accurate.
That DD is persecuted, and requires keyboard crusader help? Was there anything else in his post??

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:37 PM
  #393
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine View Post
I won't name names, but some people should get a room: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/mi...sted&t=1384841
mrB1p's post rate is unsustainable.

overlords is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:37 PM
  #394
pine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,116
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Are you paying?
Did anyone pay for Beakermania and LW? Then I don't see why I should pay here.

pine is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:44 PM
  #395
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,282
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
It's half his post.

The first half goes on about unfair and irrational DD bashing and the second half is an insane and irrational defense.

Black and white, indeed.
Agreed but it goes with the process. You and others have provided a rational debate and it's unfortunate the conversation is driven in this direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
That DD is persecuted, and requires keyboard crusader help? Was there anything else in his post??
That was pretty much it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine View Post
Did anyone pay for Beakermania and LW? Then I don't see why I should pay here.
I don't remember those details.

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
04-01-2013, 12:14 AM
  #396
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,905
vCash: 1707
now i remember why i steered clear of this thread.

if anyone wants to see the worst come out of fans of this team, just read this thread right here... holy f***stick

MasterDecoy is online now  
Old
04-01-2013, 01:38 AM
  #397
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,509
vCash: 500
Dd gets as much unwarranted praise as criticism, more so in my opinion.

For example, last year there were endless posts praising DD for having the 14th highest number of points for NHL centers, a decontextualized stat that falsely implies DD was a top 15 center.

Many assumed he was better than Plekanec offensively, and there were comparisons made to Martin st-louis.

DD has also been praised for dominating the ECHL at age 22 ("he has dominated wherever he has played"), when in fact this is a non-argument, as there are about 10 centers in our division alone why would break 100 points in the ECHL if they actually played there at age 22. Dd also dominated the AHL at age 24 - i am afraid to think of what Eller would produce in the AHL if he played there this year.

Some people actually posted that Erik Cole had a career season because of DD's vision and playmaking. Ummm, no. Erik Cole spent a decade playing with Eric Staal, a superior player.

There have also been people; the same people i think, who say Pacioretty emerged last year because of DD's vision - the same Pacioretty who had 29 points in 37 games with Gomez the previous season, against tougher opposition even.


Last edited by DAChampion: 04-01-2013 at 01:55 AM.
DAChampion is offline  
Old
04-01-2013, 02:27 AM
  #398
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Dd gets as much unwarranted praise as criticism, more so in my opinion.

For example, last year there were endless posts praising DD for having the 14th highest number of points for NHL centers, a decontextualized stat that falsely implies DD was a top 15 center.

Many assumed he was better than Plekanec offensively, and there were comparisons made to Martin st-louis.

DD has also been praised for dominating the ECHL at age 22 ("he has dominated wherever he has played"), when in fact this is a non-argument, as there are about 10 centers in our division alone why would break 100 points in the ECHL if they actually played there at age 22. Dd also dominated the AHL at age 24 - i am afraid to think of what Eller would produce in the AHL if he played there this year.

Some people actually posted that Erik Cole had a career season because of DD's vision and playmaking. Ummm, no. Erik Cole spent a decade playing with Eric Staal, a superior player.

There have also been people; the same people i think, who say Pacioretty emerged last year because of DD's vision - the same Pacioretty who had 29 points in 37 games with Gomez the previous season, against tougher opposition even.
Usually, in a normal fanbase, every player of every team gets unwarranted praise. It's normal. We are fans. We love our players and we often see them bigger than they really are. That DD finished 20th in points among centers in the NHL is still an exploit, considering he's not a top 20 center in this league. He deserves a lot of credit for that. In the last 15 years, only 3 other Habs centers finished in the top 20 (Plekanec, Koivu and Ribeiro, all very good players). So it's normal that it gets fans excited.

Unwarranted praise is normal. But unwarranted criticism? For stuggling, overpaid players, yes. David Desharnais, when we consider expectations and salary, is neither of these 2. He's just a player coming out of nowhere who, because of hard work, has built for himself an important role on our team. He did that despite the genetics working against him, despite the scouts not seeing anything in him, despite a portion of the fanbase not willing to give him a chance at all, etc.

How can a guy like that get any unwarranted criticism from its own fanbase??? This is something I'll never understand.


Last edited by overlords: 04-01-2013 at 06:30 PM.
DDs not undersized is offline  
Old
04-01-2013, 04:27 AM
  #399
Alexdaman
Registered User
 
Alexdaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,350
vCash: 50
There's a lot of tension on this thread so I want everyone to remember our current standing in the Eastern Conference vs last year's.

I also want everyone to take a moment to relax and to enjoy this video of a newborn baby deer.


Alexdaman is offline  
Old
04-01-2013, 05:22 AM
  #400
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
There's a lot of tension on this thread so I want everyone to remember our current standing in the Eastern Conference vs last year's.

I also want everyone to take a moment to relax and to enjoy this video of a newborn baby deer.

This baby is obviously sheltered by his mother. What a shame. TRADE HIM!!


DDs not undersized is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.