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How many Canadian teams can you make that would contend for a medal?

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:06 PM
  #76
Mr Writer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Each team I listed is quite a bit better than any Canadian WC team since at least 2008.
It will soon be time to fire of the good old WHC debate skills once again. The WHC always serves as a fun warm up for the most entertaining hockey on the planet, i.e. The Stanley Cup play-offs.

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:46 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Each team I listed is quite a bit better than any Canadian WC team since at least 2008.
You sure??

These are the players from 2012 WC Canada roster and they lost in quarterfinals to a "weak" team Slovakia

Quote:
Team 1

Kane Crosby Neal
Nash Spezza Eberle
Marleau Couture Iginla
Ladd J. Staal Kunitz
Lecavalier

M. Staal Pietrangelo
Vlasic Doughty
Phaneuf Coburn
Weaver

Luongo
Smith
Reimer

Team 2

Benn Stamkos St. Louis
Skinner E. Staal Seguin
Sharp Toews M. Richards
Perron Duchene Parenteau
Schenn

Subban Weber
Bouwmeester Boyle
Beauchemin Burns
Del Zotto

Ward
Crawford
Dubnyk

Team 3

Hall Getzlaf Perry
Moulson Tavares Giroux
Marchand Bergeron Carter
Ribeiro Zajac Clarkson
Thornton

Hamhuis Letang
Keith Seabrook
Campbell Girardi
Franson

Price
Fleury
Brodeur
+ Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan O'Reilly, Alexandre Burrows, Luke Schenn, Marc Methot, Ryan Murray...

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:05 PM
  #78
Yakushev72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Each team I listed is quite a bit better than any Canadian WC team since at least 2008.
Anything is possible, but it just doesn't seem likely that a B Team or C Team would win a medal. The level of worldwide competition has never been higher!

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:52 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Anything is possible, but it just doesn't seem likely that a B Team or C Team would win a medal. The level of worldwide competition has never been higher!
It depends what you're talking about. My post wasn't about making B or C teams, just three evenly distributed teams. A Canadian B team would obviously be good enough to contend for a medal. Looking forward to the WC and seeing if the Canadians can finally get some international momentum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotak View Post
You sure??

These are the players from 2012 WC Canada roster and they lost in quarterfinals to a "weak" team Slovakia

+ Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan O'Reilly, Alexandre Burrows, Luke Schenn, Marc Methot, Ryan Murray...
Yes, they disappointed, but I am certain that each team I listed is stronger than that team. Doesn't mean any of them are guaranteed to medal or anything though.

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Old
03-18-2013, 06:25 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotak View Post
You sure??

These are the players from 2012 WC Canada roster and they lost in quarterfinals to a "weak" team Slovakia



+ Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan O'Reilly, Alexandre Burrows, Luke Schenn, Marc Methot, Ryan Murray...
Subban didn't play.

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Old
03-18-2013, 06:57 PM
  #81
Yakushev72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
It depends what you're talking about. My post wasn't about making B or C teams, just three evenly distributed teams. A Canadian B team would obviously be good enough to contend for a medal. Looking forward to the WC and seeing if the Canadians can finally get some international momentum.



Yes, they disappointed, but I am certain that each team I listed is stronger than that team. Doesn't mean any of them are guaranteed to medal or anything though.
I see what you are trying to do, but I don't think it would work, because the star players you insert among the lesser ones still results in a diluted lineup that will have less firepower than a lot of countries that they would face. Of course, this is a just an intellectual exercise anyway, because they will likely load all the best players on the Olympic team.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:23 PM
  #82
MandyAlwaysKnows
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5


Kunitz - Crosby - Iginla
Perron - Duchene - Stewart
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Ennis - Hodgson - Burrows
Sutter

Garrison - Pietrangelo
Alzner - Letang
Phaneuf - Spurgeon
Methot

Dubnyk
Fleury
Scrivens




Kadri - Getzlaf - Perry
Moulson - Tavares - Parenteau
Hall - Gagner - Eberle
Glencross - O'Reilly - Clarkson
Nugent-Hopkins

Gorges - Subban
Cowen - Bouwmeester
Coburn - Bieksa
Giordano

Price
Holtby
Reimer




Skinner - Spezza - Neal
Whitney - Staal - Williams
Schenn - Staal - Doan
Tanguay - Turris - Simmonds
Roy

Hamhuis - Weber
Staal - Girardi
Phillips - Del Zotto
Wideman

Ward
Ellis
Peters




Hartnell - Giroux - Cammalleri
Kane - Benn - Ryder
Ladd - Toews - Sharp
Huberdeau - Richards - Carter
Fisher

Keith - Seabrook
Souray - Campbell
Jackman - Hamonic
Schultz

Crawford
Allen
Luongo




St. Louis - Stamkos - Purcell
Marleau - Thornton - Nash
Lucic - Couture - Horton
Conacher - Lecavalier - Boyes
Richards

Vlasic - Doughty
Beauchemin - Boyle
Muzzin - Stuart
Green

Bernier
Brodeur
Kuemper




These are worse than Sweden and USA. Probably similar or slightly worse than Russia (considering D and G). Would challenge for a medal.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:51 PM
  #83
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four

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:45 PM
  #84
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Defense isn't the same without Niedermayer and Pronger. Irreplaceable

Probably Russia will take it, and we'll see some guy who was hidden in the KHL emerge as their hero.

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:29 AM
  #85
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The shorter the tournament the more random the outcome and there are certainly many more teams that could be created which would have a shot at finishing in the top three. For example player for player I think all the Canadian teams listed above are stronger than Finland, yet no one would say Finland doesn't have a shot at finishing in the top 3.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:34 AM
  #86
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Old
03-19-2013, 03:10 PM
  #87
Mr Kanadensisk
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Compared to Finland, Canada has 7 times the population, 10 times the number of indoor arenas and 13 times the number of kids playing hockey and 22 times the number of NHLers. Finland clearly has the talent to contend for the top 3 so I think it is just common sense that Canada could ice numerous teams that could contend for the top 3 also.

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Old
03-19-2013, 11:43 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
5


Kunitz - Crosby - Iginla
Perron - Duchene - Stewart
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Ennis - Hodgson - Burrows
Sutter

Garrison - Pietrangelo
Alzner - Letang
Phaneuf - Spurgeon
Methot

Dubnyk
Fleury
Scrivens




Kadri - Getzlaf - Perry
Moulson - Tavares - Parenteau
Hall - Gagner - Eberle
Glencross - O'Reilly - Clarkson
Nugent-Hopkins

Gorges - Subban
Cowen - Bouwmeester
Coburn - Bieksa
Giordano

Price
Holtby
Reimer




Skinner - Spezza - Neal
Whitney - Staal - Williams
Schenn - Staal - Doan
Tanguay - Turris - Simmonds
Roy

Hamhuis - Weber
Staal - Girardi
Phillips - Del Zotto
Wideman

Ward
Ellis
Peters




Hartnell - Giroux - Cammalleri
Kane - Benn - Ryder
Ladd - Toews - Sharp
Huberdeau - Richards - Carter
Fisher

Keith - Seabrook
Souray - Campbell
Jackman - Hamonic
Schultz

Crawford
Allen
Luongo




St. Louis - Stamkos - Purcell
Marleau - Thornton - Nash
Lucic - Couture - Horton
Conacher - Lecavalier - Boyes
Richards

Vlasic - Doughty
Beauchemin - Boyle
Muzzin - Stuart
Green

Bernier
Brodeur
Kuemper




These are worse than Sweden and USA. Probably similar or slightly worse than Russia (considering D and G). Would challenge for a medal.
Well done.

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Old
03-31-2013, 07:19 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
5


Kunitz - Crosby - Iginla
Perron - Duchene - Stewart
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Ennis - Hodgson - Burrows
Sutter

Garrison - Pietrangelo
Alzner - Letang
Phaneuf - Spurgeon
Methot

Dubnyk
Fleury
Scrivens




Kadri - Getzlaf - Perry
Moulson - Tavares - Parenteau
Hall - Gagner - Eberle
Glencross - O'Reilly - Clarkson
Nugent-Hopkins

Gorges - Subban
Cowen - Bouwmeester
Coburn - Bieksa
Giordano

Price
Holtby
Reimer




Skinner - Spezza - Neal
Whitney - Staal - Williams
Schenn - Staal - Doan
Tanguay - Turris - Simmonds
Roy

Hamhuis - Weber
Staal - Girardi
Phillips - Del Zotto
Wideman

Ward
Ellis
Peters




Hartnell - Giroux - Cammalleri
Kane - Benn - Ryder
Ladd - Toews - Sharp
Huberdeau - Richards - Carter
Fisher

Keith - Seabrook
Souray - Campbell
Jackman - Hamonic
Schultz

Crawford
Allen
Luongo




St. Louis - Stamkos - Purcell
Marleau - Thornton - Nash
Lucic - Couture - Horton
Conacher - Lecavalier - Boyes
Richards

Vlasic - Doughty
Beauchemin - Boyle
Muzzin - Stuart
Green

Bernier
Brodeur
Kuemper




These are worse than Sweden and USA. Probably similar or slightly worse than Russia (considering D and G). Would challenge for a medal.
Didn't even use the healthy NHL leader in points per minute NAZ KAD

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Old
04-01-2013, 12:09 AM
  #90
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Exactly 1. Of course Canada has the most depth, but not enough for 2 contending teams.

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Old
04-04-2013, 09:34 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
Exactly 1. Of course Canada has the most depth, but not enough for 2 contending teams.
That is just silly. If a country the size of Finland can produce one contending team it is pretty obvious that Canada could produce many more.

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Old
04-04-2013, 12:53 PM
  #92
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To contend for a medal is not a very high bar. Basically a team just a bit better than Switzerland would do.

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Old
04-05-2013, 10:22 AM
  #93
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Threads like this--which trumpet Canada's considerable depth--make me chuckle. If Canada is so deep that they can field multiple potential medal winning teams (and Canada is very deep, I'll give that to you), then maybe you can stop playing the "We didn't have our best players" card whenever you lose.

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Old
04-05-2013, 11:52 AM
  #94
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Canada could put up 3 teams that would all contend for a medal, even if they top-loaded the better team. Likely wouldn't happen, but in a REAL GOOD year, would be able to sweep the medals.

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Old
04-05-2013, 11:54 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
Threads like this--which trumpet Canada's considerable depth--make me chuckle. If Canada is so deep that they can field multiple potential medal winning teams (and Canada is very deep, I'll give that to you), then maybe you can stop playing the "We didn't have our best players" card whenever you lose.
They can always play that card, because there is always a great debate over who should/should not be on the team.

With Canada, you probably have about 8-10 players that are absolute locks and nobody would question. The other 12-14 are debatable. With other countries, generally the argument is only over the last 2 or 3 roster spots.

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Old
04-05-2013, 11:56 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
To contend for a medal is not a very high bar. Basically a team just a bit better than Switzerland would do.
This is very true, which is why I think Canada could put up 3 contending teams. In some years, they wouldn't win any medals, and in some years could win multiple.

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Old
04-08-2013, 09:27 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
They can always play that card, because there is always a great debate over who should/should not be on the team.

With Canada, you probably have about 8-10 players that are absolute locks and nobody would question. The other 12-14 are debatable. With other countries, generally the argument is only over the last 2 or 3 roster spots.
It seems to me that the United States, Sweden, Russia, and in many years, Finland, all have enough top performers to compete for a high medal. So having a high percentage of "debatables" doesn't seem to enhance the chances of Canada winning multiple medals.

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Old
04-08-2013, 08:05 PM
  #98
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Why are the talent spread out? I think if we stack each team with the best available then it would stop at C

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Old
04-09-2013, 03:05 AM
  #99
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I agree with Mr Kanadensisk. I think Canada could have 6-7 medal contending teams. I feel that many posters think too much about what the team looks on paper. In a tournament with 6-7 games and single game elimination rounds Canada F could well finish better than Canada A. The difference between NHL top players and NHL regular guys isn't that big on ice.

If Finland can always compete with top teams, so can Canada F. It's not luck. Hockey game isn't a predictable simulation where some hypothetical skill points are summed up to see which team is best. Team with average NHLers can play better than a team with top NHLers, because there are many contributing factors: mental, physical, chemistry, coaching etc.

Teams with top material often fail to succeed even in 82-game regular season, let alone in single games or in short tournaments, where players gather together just before the first game.

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:42 AM
  #100
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I agree with Mr Kanadensisk. I think Canada could have 6-7 medal contending teams. I feel that many posters think too much about what the team looks on paper. In a tournament with 6-7 games and single game elimination rounds Canada F could well finish better than Canada A. The difference between NHL top players and NHL regular guys isn't that big on ice.

If Finland can always compete with top teams, so can Canada F. It's not luck. Hockey game isn't a predictable simulation where some hypothetical skill points are summed up to see which team is best. Team with average NHLers can play better than a team with top NHLers, because there are many contributing factors: mental, physical, chemistry, coaching etc.

Teams with top material often fail to succeed even in 82-game regular season, let alone in single games or in short tournaments, where players gather together just before the first game.
If you expand the field, based on the "mental, physical, chemistry, and coaching" criteria to include "average" and "below average" players, then Canada could easily field as many as 20 medal-contending teams. This estimate is based on the fact that there are more than 500 Canadian players in the NHL.

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