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All Encompassing Tortorella Thread Pt. II

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Old
03-31-2013, 07:03 PM
  #676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverdale View Post
Stepan and Cally come out and said what they needed to say.

But, if they are actually being 100% honest and still are behind Torts...Why does this team suck so much? Do they care to answer that, straight up?

The players under performing, Slats not doing his job, Torts not motivating his team and adjusting are all reasons why this team flat out sucks right now. Who the **** is going to take responsibility? God damn it, this is the only team that gets shutout two games in a row and says "well at least we got some chances". Chances don't win hockey games. Putting the little puck in the net does. Enough is enough.

I am sick of the same boring answers Torts and his team has to why they suck. Hank is the only one with any type of emotional reaction.
Not really sure what you want them to say, calling out fellow teammates and coaches in the media isn't going to help anything right now. Guys who are struggling like Gabby and Richards know it, what does someone telling the media the obvious do to help this team win games?

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Old
03-31-2013, 07:07 PM
  #677
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The biggest difference between last year's team and this year's is absolutely goal scoring. When we needed a goal, for the most part someone stepped up. That's the main perk of having 4 contributing lines. It's not Tort's fault the team is absurdly top heavy, with the "top heavy" part contributing nothing outside of Nash and Stepan. With that said I am not a fan at all of Torts' system. We have to be one of, if not the least offensively creative team in the league.


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Old
03-31-2013, 07:07 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by vstk View Post
I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a flying ..... what other people think about him.

Either he is 'paying back' his mistreatment by trashing Tortorella or doing the team a favor by pointing out the elephant in the room. Which one is it, only handful of people know for sure. Bottom line is, the guy has more inside information than all of us combined. I wouldn't just shrug his opinion off solely because some people might have a certain opinion about him.
Well said.

Avery is pretty plugged into this team. He's buddies with hank.

Don't fool yourself into thinking he's just being bitter.

He's got an informed opinion

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Old
03-31-2013, 07:14 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
Well said.

Avery is pretty plugged into this team. He's buddies with hank.

Don't fool yourself into thinking he's just being bitter.

He's got an informed opinion
He's as biased as he is informed however, unfortunately. If it was literally any other ex-Ranger saying what he tweeted it would have a lot more merit.

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03-31-2013, 07:22 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by vstk View Post
I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a flying ..... what other people think about him.

Either he is 'paying back' his mistreatment by trashing Tortorella or doing the team a favor by pointing out the elephant in the room. Which one is it, only handful of people know for sure. Bottom line is, the guy has more inside information than all of us combined. I wouldn't just shrug his opinion off solely because some people might have a certain opinion about him.
I'm pretty sure none of us know anything of consequence about the inner workings of a player we watched on television for a few hours a week years ago. That's sort of my point. People have no problem thinking that what he said is absolutely true because it's what they want to hear, but it takes just as much of a leap in logic and just as much filling in the blanks to argue either way. We don't know. Sean is both informed and biased.

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03-31-2013, 07:25 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Sean is both informed and biased.
Indeed, that is exactly why you can't say if he is telling the truth or lying.

It is, however, interesting that after all this silence he decided to say that right now.

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03-31-2013, 07:29 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by vstk View Post
Indeed, that is exactly why you can't say if he is telling the truth or lying.

It is, however, interesting that after all this silence he decided to say that right now.
Yeah. I wasn't saying he was lying really, just offering an explanation as to why its a possibility.

I'd imagine he said it right now because he follows the league and the team and saw that they've hit rock bottom.

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03-31-2013, 07:37 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by vstk View Post
Indeed, that is exactly why you can't say if he is telling the truth or lying.

It is, however, interesting that after all this silence he decided to say that right now.
I think Avery knew his tweet would cause a stir, nothing more. Avery is allowed his opinion but it doesn't mean anything. I was an Avery supporter but his opinion is the last opinion I want to hear about the current state of the Rangers.

Avery knows what he's doing, he put the bait out and people bit at it. Fans that want to give him credit for saying something that many of us have thought at different points this year are giving Avery way to much credit.

I think Tortorella should be given at least the rest of this year and possibly the beginning of next year. That's my opinion but I'm not somebody that feels firing a coach with 15 games left is the right thing to do. Let him finish the job. If he gets fired at the end of the year so be it. I fear if the Rangers fire Torts now the players will put all the blame on him and that would be wrong. Nearly every player has played below even minimum expectations and that isn't all on the coach.

My hope and prayer is if Torts goes so does Sather and that's not happening during this season. Let Gorton pick the next coach.

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03-31-2013, 09:07 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Avery knows what he's doing, he put the bait out and people bit at it. Fans that want to give him credit for saying something that many of us have thought at different points this year are giving Avery way to much credit.
We can speculate as much as we want. You or me don't know the truth, let's not pretend we do.

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Nearly every player has played below even minimum expectations
I believe that is pretty much the only time when the coach is being held responsible for teams failure.

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03-31-2013, 09:39 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
I don't see the Rangers firing Tortorella anytime soon. The Rangers finished first last year and suck this year. Does that make him a good coach or a bad coach?
He's been horrible the entire time he's been here. The team has no fundamentals drilled into them. They play in inefficient clusters instead of units of 5. They are bad in all 3 zones. The best goalie in the world is what has masked his glaringly poor coaching, but he has sucked the entire time and should have never been hired. Seriously, watch Mike Babcock his entire career, and his 4th line and third D pair looks more cohesive than any lines Tortorella ever used.

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:41 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
Well said.

Avery is pretty plugged into this team. He's buddies with hank.

Don't fool yourself into thinking he's just being bitter.

He's got an informed opinion
Avery is not "pretty plugged into this team," but thanks for trying.

Hopefully, that is the last of that. Avery’s Twitter statement should have been about a five-minute story but the Ranger fan base, for the most part, still reveres him so what he says resonates. But he was not a popular Ranger within his own dressing room while he was still with the team - and that had nothing to do with Avery’s bad relationship with Tortorella - and the likelihood of Avery actually having his finger on the pulse of what the current Rangers are thinking is slim to virtually none.- Andrew Gross, Rangers beat writer

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:42 PM
  #687
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Our #1 seed last year and conference final trip was not because of Torts. Call me stubborn all you want but ill give him only a little credit

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:05 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Laces out Dan View Post
He's been horrible the entire time he's been here. The team has no fundamentals drilled into them. They play in inefficient clusters instead of units of 5. They are bad in all 3 zones. The best goalie in the world is what has masked his glaringly poor coaching, but he has sucked the entire time and should have never been hired. Seriously, watch Mike Babcock his entire career, and his 4th line and third D pair looks more cohesive than any lines Tortorella ever used.
thats a ridiculous statement.. iam sorry but thats such an unfair assessment.. No fundamentals? are you kidding me? to take the amount of young players he has in the last 4yrs to turn them from prospects into great players.. we havent seen DZ hags step callahan mcd staal girardi become the players they have become under torts... we played like a group of 5 last year, or no? to make it to the ECF isn't a fluke, its good coaching and players playing like a team.. this year we have no identity and lost a lot of the glue guys that led the team so to speak and created out identity which the team followed and admired.. what a joke of a statement..

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03-31-2013, 10:12 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Avery is not "pretty plugged into this team," but thanks for trying.

Hopefully, that is the last of that. Avery’s Twitter statement should have been about a five-minute story but the Ranger fan base, for the most part, still reveres him so what he says resonates. But he was not a popular Ranger within his own dressing room while he was still with the team - and that had nothing to do with Avery’s bad relationship with Tortorella - and the likelihood of Avery actually having his finger on the pulse of what the current Rangers are thinking is slim to virtually none.- Andrew Gross, Rangers beat writer
On one hand you claim to know what people in the dressing room thought of Avery, based on god knows what, and on the other claim he has no idea what people in the dressing room think of Torts. Yet he is a former member of the team, who is friends with current players. You are what? Someone so desperate for Torts to be 'the' coach for this team that you want to believe anything people say towards him negatively simply cannot be true at all.

You are as, or more biased than Avery, and you know far less.

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03-31-2013, 10:19 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
On one hand you claim to know what people in the dressing room thought of Avery, based on god knows what, and on the other claim he has no idea what people in the dressing room think of Torts. Yet he is a former member of the team, who is friends with current players. You are what? Someone so desperate for Torts to be 'the' coach for this team that you want to believe anything people say towards him negatively simply cannot be true at all.

You are as, or more biased than Avery, and you know far less.
Poor reading comprehension. I cited something Andrew Gross said.

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03-31-2013, 10:20 PM
  #691
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thats a ridiculous statement.. iam sorry but thats such an unfair assessment.. No fundamentals? are you kidding me? to take the amount of young players he has in the last 4yrs to turn them from prospects into great players.. we havent seen DZ hags step callahan mcd staal girardi become the players they have become under torts... we played like a group of 5 last year, or no? to make it to the ECF isn't a fluke, its good coaching and players playing like a team.. this year we have no identity and lost a lot of the glue guys that led the team so to speak and created out identity which the team followed and admired.. what a joke of a statement..
I've been skating and playing for 41 years, since I was 4, and imo this is a terribly coached team. Torts has sucked since he got here and they are horrible at fundamentals. I've been saying this exact thing when this team wins or loses since he got here, and my opinion will not change. My f-in pets could get more PP production than this.

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:22 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Avery is not "pretty plugged into this team," but thanks for trying.
But you are?

Pretty sure this is the point Ail was trying to make. I'd say it's pretty reasonable to call a guy who was not too long ago a member of this team (and still likely friends with some of the players still on it) pretty plugged in.

Not necessarily true, just fairly reasonable

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03-31-2013, 10:25 PM
  #693
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Bring Keenan back.

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:33 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Avery is not "pretty plugged into this team," but thanks for trying.

Hopefully, that is the last of that. Avery’s Twitter statement should have been about a five-minute story but the Ranger fan base, for the most part, still reveres him so what he says resonates. But he was not a popular Ranger within his own dressing room while he was still with the team - and that had nothing to do with Avery’s bad relationship with Tortorella - and the likelihood of Avery actually having his finger on the pulse of what the current Rangers are thinking is slim to virtually none.- Andrew Gross, Rangers beat writer
Gross needs a lesson in human nature then.

If you are dissatisfied with your boss, who do you complain to? Most likely someone who empathizes and, if possible, that someone will not be part of the company you work for. Who better than someone who no longer works with you, but had issues with the same boss you have in the past?

And that's where I wonder about Brad Richards and Sean Avery's friendship, which existed before Richards was a Ranger and I'm sure has continued since. It would be the easiest thing in the world for Richards to complain about Tortorella to Avery. Avery may or may not have a pulse on what's going on with the team, but I bet he knows what's going on with Richards. The question would then become, how does Richards handle Avery running his mouth? Not that it really matters in the context of the hockey club.

All of that being said, what this shows to me, more than anything else, is that the atmosphere surrounding the organization is, or is becoming, poisonous. This is the kind of **** we expect to see surrounding the Flyers organization. I've been one of Tortorella's biggest supporters, right there alongside you there Kel. However, the apparent dysfunction, which is apparent from their play on the ice more than anything else, stems from Tortorella's outsized personality. When things are going well, he's great. Beyond that, he's the NHL coaches equivalent of naan. No shelf life. (bad joke)

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03-31-2013, 10:40 PM
  #695
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Poor reading comprehension. I cited something Andrew Gross said.
Maybe you should use quotes then. Was everything in that post a Gross quote? Including the first line?

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03-31-2013, 10:43 PM
  #696
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Gross needs a lesson in human nature then.

If you are dissatisfied with your boss, who do you complain to? Most likely someone who empathizes and, if possible, that someone will not be part of the company you work for. Who better than someone who no longer works with you, but had issues with the same boss you have in the past?

And that's where I wonder about Brad Richards and Sean Avery's friendship, which existed before Richards was a Ranger and I'm sure has continued since. It would be the easiest thing in the world for Richards to complain about Tortorella to Avery. Avery may or may not have a pulse on what's going on with the team, but I bet he knows what's going on with Richards. The question would then become, how does Richards handle Avery running his mouth? Not that it really matters in the context of the hockey club.

All of that being said, what this shows to me, more than anything else, is that the atmosphere surrounding the organization is, or is becoming, poisonous. This is the kind of **** we expect to see surrounding the Flyers organization. I've been one of Tortorella's biggest supporters, right there alongside you there Kel. However, the apparent dysfunction, which is apparent from their play on the ice more than anything else, stems from Tortorella's outsized personality. When things are going well, he's great. Beyond that, he's the NHL coaches equivalent of naan. No shelf life. (bad joke)
Agree with this completely. There are signs. It may not be as dramatic as Avery makes it out to be, but it is relatively clear this year's locker room is nothing like last year's. So what's causing it?

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03-31-2013, 10:54 PM
  #697
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Agree with this completely. There are signs. It may not be as dramatic as Avery makes it out to be, but it is relatively clear this year's locker room is nothing like last year's. So what's causing it?
I think Tortorella's mind games work great when he has something easy to use. Last season, the Rangers faced a ton of external adversity in the first 3 months of the season. First, their trip to Europe. Second, their being on the road until the end of October. Third, the build up to the Winter Classic including 24/7. Fourth, missing their best defenseman, who was an all-star the previous year, from the very beginning of the season. Tortorella was successfully able to take all of that and give his team some extra urgency to keep the focus internal. I don't think it's a coincidence that the team's slide into .500 hockey came soon after all of that stuff was over. Nothing has happened to give Tortorella that catalyst this season and bind the team closer to each other.

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03-31-2013, 11:57 PM
  #698
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Gross needs a lesson in human nature then.

If you are dissatisfied with your boss, who do you complain to? Most likely someone who empathizes and, if possible, that someone will not be part of the company you work for. Who better than someone who no longer works with you, but had issues with the same boss you have in the past?

And that's where I wonder about Brad Richards and Sean Avery's friendship, which existed before Richards was a Ranger and I'm sure has continued since. It would be the easiest thing in the world for Richards to complain about Tortorella to Avery. Avery may or may not have a pulse on what's going on with the team, but I bet he knows what's going on with Richards. The question would then become, how does Richards handle Avery running his mouth? Not that it really matters in the context of the hockey club.

All of that being said, what this shows to me, more than anything else, is that the atmosphere surrounding the organization is, or is becoming, poisonous. This is the kind of **** we expect to see surrounding the Flyers organization. I've been one of Tortorella's biggest supporters, right there alongside you there Kel. However, the apparent dysfunction, which is apparent from their play on the ice more than anything else, stems from Tortorella's outsized personality. When things are going well, he's great. Beyond that, he's the NHL coaches equivalent of naan. No shelf life. (bad joke)
You think Richards, who had some of his best years of his career under Torts and did most of his career winning including winning a cup as the playoff MVP, hates Torts?

And Avery isn't a part of the "atmosphere surrounding the organization."

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04-01-2013, 12:22 AM
  #699
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The interesting dynamic here is how Torts is going to take this insight. I'm sure he knows Avery can be an attension seeker. But he obviously also knows Brad and Hank are good friends with Avery. Is he going to believe he's lost the lockerroom, and that this may be coming from his own players?

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04-01-2013, 12:33 AM
  #700
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
Well said.

Avery is pretty plugged into this team. He's buddies with hank.

Don't fool yourself into thinking he's just being bitter.

He's got an informed opinion
There's one problem here. If Avery is telling the truth and not just blowing smoke, then he just made life in that dressing room a whole lot harder for his buddies who talk to him.

I seriously doubt anyone, whether it's a Rangers beat writer, Torts or his family members, the water boy, or the fans on the outside looking in, really know what the players think of Torts.

It is obvious, however, there is something wrong in that room. You can't hide the body language, lack of passion on the ice, and the defeatist tone in their voices.

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