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Mikhail Grabovski, Tyler Bozak, Clarke MacArthur, John Michael-Liles

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:07 PM
  #26
Jerkini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
That's interesting because some of your fan base consider Bozak worth 1st +. Would you say Bozak or Clarkson is worth more?
I certainly wouldn't pay that price for Bozak either, that's for sure.

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:15 PM
  #27
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hush View Post
Grabo on a line with talented players (Sedin/Sedin or Datsyuk/Zetterberg) would illicit an insane number of points. He is a great scorer on a crappy line.

JML is going to get the going rate for d-men. I consider him better/harder working than JayBow, who the Flames fans around here expect 1st+top 3 prospect+4/5 D. The answer of his value is somewhere in the middle.
Jbo is worth alot more than JML.

JML is an offensive defenseman who can struggle at times defensively and isn't the biggest guy, Jbo brings everything JML does offensively, aswell being as being reliable defensively, more physical, more size, exc.

He's alot more valuable than JML, its like comparing Mason Raymond and Phil Kessel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Bozak, but it's close.

Bozie is younger, a C, and has out produced Clarkson offensively in every season they were both in the league...

Clarkson has the physical edge, and the pest edge advantage though.
... Your not serious....

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:18 PM
  #28
Phion Keneuf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Jbo is worth alot more than JML.

JML is an offensive defenseman who can struggle at times defensively and isn't the biggest guy, Jbo brings everything JML does offensively, aswell being as being reliable defensively, more physical, more size, exc.

He's alot more valuable than JML, its like comparing Mason Raymond and Phil Kessel.



... Your not serious....
*you're.

Good try though.

Lets hear your reasoning as to why Clarkson is worth more than Bozak

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:24 PM
  #29
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
*you're.

Good try though.

Lets hear your reasoning as to why Clarkson is worth more than Bozak
He is rare players that is difficult to acquire. He brings the edge physically, is alot more girtty, brings heart and character, leadership, exc. All those great things that make those players so valuable. You know what I mean.

He also like Bozak plays the PK and PP.

And offensively Clarkson is a better goal scorer. And yeah Bozak has had more points, but he has more assists. He has also been playing along side an all-star sniper. So how many of those assists come from being a great playmaker center, or from playing alongside a great player? Put Clarkson alongside a top notch playmaking center and I think his points would go up too. That leads me to say offensively they are pretty close. And the rest is equal or an advantage to Clarkson.

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:27 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
*you're.

Good try though.

Lets hear your reasoning as to why Clarkson is worth more than Bozak
There are very few players who can put up 100+ hits, 45+ points, 6+ feet, 200+ pounds. These kind of stats over a full 82 game season are premiere power forwards of the league. Now if you include PIM the list gets even smaller. Nothing against Bozak he's a good player, in fact reminds me a lot of Brendan Morrisons situation when he was in his prime. But there are very few power forwards in the game who can play in top 6 effectively.

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:16 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ItsOurGame View Post
What would you think about something based around Grabovski and Clarkson?
Would consider, although his contract isn't great. Maybe like Grabo + 2nd for Clarkson and a 4th?

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SteveCangialosi123 View Post
Would consider, although his contract isn't great. Maybe like Grabo + 2nd for Clarkson and a 4th?
Personally I'd be all for it...would even offer to retain salary, though I'm not entirely sure how that works.

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:28 PM
  #33
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Id take Liles back to Colorado, I was mad he was traded for a 2nd. What from the Avs to take him back?

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:30 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Jbo is worth alot more than JML.

JML is an offensive defenseman who can struggle at times defensively and isn't the biggest guy, Jbo brings everything JML does offensively, aswell being as being reliable defensively, more physical, more size, exc.

He's alot more valuable than JML, its like comparing Mason Raymond and Phil Kessel.



... Your not serious....
Jaybo the last 4 seasons has scored 97pts and is -38 in 279 games. Liles has 112pts in 223 games and was -27. They had almost identical hits per game and blocks per game, and all this in spite of JB logging almost 5 minutes more a night TOI. Their respective teams won a similar amount of games in that timespan.

Bo brings more size but doesn't use it, and used to score more back in Florida, but JML would have a 50% scoring bulge on him in the last 4 years, but for games missed. I actually discovered how weak Jaybo's numbers were when I was comparing him to Giordano and Phaneuf (both of whom outperformed Jaybo badly)

You can excuse some of this because a 25.00 TOI guy is seeing harder minutes but until this year Calgary was not a pushover so the -38 sticks out. He doesn't really outperform Liles in any area except TOI, and not enough to offset the scoring shortfall. IMHO they are both Mason Raymonds.

I wouldn't go out of my way to acquire either of these guys. Jaybo seems to have forgotten how to play like he did in Florida (+23 with 42 points on a 35 win club) and Liles has had two bouts of concussion problems. I agree with you that Jaybo has more value, but because of his size, draft position, and 2006-2007, and not because of how he has actually played the last few years. Being a beautiful skater doesn't matter if it doesn't create results but it might get him another audition as a savior with a new club.

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:31 PM
  #35
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Clarkson definitely has a higher value than Bozak. Take Kessel off of Bozak's line and he would be what we all think he is, a solid 25 - 30 point 3rd line centre who is great at faceoffs.

I think Clarkson could get a return silimar to a 1st + Kulemin, there is just no way Nonis goes for this. Way too much to give up for a rental at this point in time. There is also a very good chance Clarkson signs with the Leafs if he doesn't re-up with the Devils, so not point in risking wasting important assets.

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:41 PM
  #36
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuck View Post
Jaybo the last 4 seasons has scored 97pts and is -38 in 279 games. Liles has 112pts in 223 games and was -27. They had almost identical hits per game and blocks per game, and all this in spite of JB logging almost 5 minutes more a night TOI. Their respective teams won a similar amount of games in that timespan.

Bo brings more size but doesn't use it, and used to score more back in Florida, but JML would have a 50% scoring bulge on him in the last 4 years, but for games missed. I actually discovered how weak Jaybo's numbers were when I was comparing him to Giordano and Phaneuf (both of whom outperformed Jaybo badly)

You can excuse some of this because a 25.00 TOI guy is seeing harder minutes but until this year Calgary was not a pushover so the -38 sticks out. He doesn't really outperform Liles in any area except TOI, and not enough to offset the scoring shortfall. IMHO they are both Mason Raymonds.

I wouldn't go out of my way to acquire either of these guys. Jaybo seems to have forgotten how to play like he did in Florida (+23 with 42 points on a 35 win club) and Liles has had two bouts of concussion problems. I agree with you that Jaybo has more value, but because of his size, draft position, and 2006-2007, and not because of how he has actually played the last few years. Being a beautiful skater doesn't matter if it doesn't create results but it might get him another audition as a savior with a new club.
He hasnt had a great tenure in Calgary. You don't need to pull out the stats we all know that.

I think though that this year he has turned the page and is starting to play like the player he is supposed to be.

He is a more valuable option than Liles right now.

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:46 PM
  #37
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Clarkson >>> Bozak

However, it would take a 1st+ or equal value to get Toronto thinking about shipping out Bozak when they are going to make the playoffs for the first time in almost a decade. While at the same time, Toronto wouldn't give up a 1st to get Clarkson because our need for a gritty winger is not as high as some of our other needs, unless MacArthur is moved at the deadline.

So I would not give a 1st for Clarkson, and would not trade Bozak for a 1st, but Clarkson is a better player than Bozak.

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:55 PM
  #38
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Not trading Liles unless its for an upgrade, he has played really well for us this season and I dont trust Gardiner as of now who despite showing really good offensive instincts have been terrible defensively and even then I dont trust Kostka being an everyday player.

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:58 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hush View Post
Assuming all NTC are waived:

Grabovski: 1st+top 10 prospect+lower tier 2nd/high tier 3rd line player
Bozak: 3rd rounder/4th line grinder under 30
MacArthur: 2nd rounder/3rd liner
Liles: 1st+4/5 D-Man
That is a hell of a lot
Did Liles really get that much better since we traded him, for a guy who is frequently scratched I don't think that is fair value.

I don't know too much about Grabovski but that is also quite a hefty demand

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:10 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Meh, he's a rental that we likely wont be able to re-sign, if we are giving up 2 early picks I would rather do it for someone like Goc who will be around longer than 12 games and the playoffs.



Look at what Gagne, Ponikarovsky, Iginla and Loktionov got.

One team overpaying because they are in a position to do so doesn't set the market for everyone else.

No one is giving up more than that for rental Bozak who is demanding more money then he's worth.

If a team is looking to extend Bozak, going into his prime, for a reasonable rate, I'm sure they'd give up more than just a second and a third. He's been pretty damn good this year and can be put in any role or situation. He's more useful than a Gagne,Poni,Murray etc at this point in their careers. Bozak also has more points than Iginla, who, the Bruins were going to give up a lot for and a player who's also a rental. People who think he's not worth much are only fooling themselves.

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:16 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by AvsFanJosh View Post
Id take Liles back to Colorado, I was mad he was traded for a 2nd. What from the Avs to take him back?
Top4 defensive d-man.

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:21 PM
  #42
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Would Rob Scuderi work as a shut down guy in T.O? and what does L.A need for their run?

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:21 PM
  #43
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
If a team is looking to extend Bozak, going into his prime, for a reasonable rate, I'm sure they'd give up more than just a second and a third. He's been pretty damn good this year and can be put in any role or situation. He's more useful than a Gagne,Poni,Murray etc at this point in their careers. Bozak also has more points than Iginla, who, the Bruins were going to give up a lot for and a player who's also a rental. People who think he's not worth much are only fooling themselves.
He worth a decent return. He's a good player. But He's not worth 1st+ I could see a team giving up 2nd+ if they get desperate and plan to re-sign him. Although I don't think he is worth what he probably wants, and some of his offensive production does come from playing with Kessel.

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:27 PM
  #44
Pyromaniac3
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
Would Rob Scuderi work as a shut down guy in T.O? and what does L.A need for their run?
With Mitchell doubtful to play for LA, trading Scuderi would be the last thing LA should do. There is even a rumour that LA is looking to acquire Regehr.

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:30 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by TmlHockeyFan View Post
What would you offer for:

Mikhail Grabovski
Tyler Bozak
Clarke MacArthur
John Michael Liles

These are all names that are involved in plenty of rumours.
Liles has been a healthy scratch for awhile. Liles makes alot of dough.
I remember when Toronto aquired him from Colorado for a draft pick. Fans were so excited. They felt they stole a pucking moving PP qb back then.
Now every trade offer has Liles name in it.
If he is to be traded then TOR needs to showcase him.
If no trade is made Why did the Leafs get him in the first place?

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Old
04-01-2013, 04:25 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hush View Post
Assuming all NTC are waived:

Grabovski: 1st+top 10 prospect+lower tier 2nd/high tier 3rd line player
Bozak: 3rd rounder/4th line grinder under 30
MacArthur: 2nd rounder/3rd liner
Liles: 1st+4/5 D-Man
Grabo is worth a similar return to Jordan Staal... wow.
Liles who has been a healthy scratch for a very sub par defense worth more than a middle round pick..

On the other hand Bozak is so criminally underated.. 3rd rounder OR a 4th liner? lol wtf.. If we didn't have him he'd be a player we'd be targeting.. Comparable to Roy or Weiss..

Leaf fans make me .. a lot

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Old
04-01-2013, 04:31 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
Shouldn't the Leafs not trade players from their roster right now?
only way they get traded right now is if we get an NHL player back in return which does happen sometimes but is rare.

One example is the Devils and Ducks swapping Friesen and Sykora when they put up similar numbers at the time in the NHL(and then they both made it to the finals that year)

If the Leafs trade any roster players it'll be for other NHL players or if Feaster or a GM going full Feaster overpays out the ass for one of them.

So bassicly they'll all be leafs till after the playoffs at least

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Old
04-01-2013, 04:42 AM
  #48
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SJ, who are stronger contenders than Toronto (IMO), sold Murray and it looks like theyre going to sell Clowe. So its not out of the question that Toronto sells a player or two. Its still not expected though, it is atypical for teams in a playoff spot at the deadline to "sell".

In terms of value? Id say:
Bozak ~ 2nd + 3rd
MacArthur ~ 2nd + 4th
Grabo ~ 1st + 2nd (with Toronto retaining some salary or taking a cap dump back)
Liles ~ 3rd (less than we gave up for him. He was worth more at that time IMO)

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Old
04-01-2013, 04:50 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
SJ, who are stronger contenders than Toronto (IMO), sold Murray and it looks like theyre going to sell Clowe. So its not out of the question that Toronto sells a player or two. Its still not expected though, it is atypical for teams in a playoff spot at the deadline to "sell".

In terms of value? Id say:
Bozak ~ 2nd + 3rd
MacArthur ~ 2nd + 4th
Grabo ~ 1st + 2nd (with Toronto retaining some salary or taking a cap dump back)
Liles ~ 3rd (less than we gave up for him. He was worth more at that time IMO)
These are all pretty fair values.

I don't know about Liles though. He's played questionably and there is still plenty of years left on his contract. I'm not sure he would fetch a third rounder. Most likely a team would want Toronto to take back years/salary.

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Old
04-01-2013, 04:50 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
He worth a decent return. He's a good player. But He's not worth 1st+ I could see a team giving up 2nd+ if they get desperate and plan to re-sign him. Although I don't think he is worth what he probably wants, and some of his offensive production does come from playing with Kessel.
And it will take more than a second and a third for a guy playing a crucial role for this team. He's worth more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Liles has been a healthy scratch for awhile. Liles makes alot of dough.
I remember when Toronto aquired him from Colorado for a draft pick. Fans were so excited. They felt they stole a pucking moving PP qb back then.
Now every trade offer has Liles name in it.
If he is to be traded then TOR needs to showcase him.
If no trade is made Why did the Leafs get him in the first place?
The Leafs did "steal him". It made no sense as to why he was being scratched earlier this year. The only reason I'd move Liles at this point is because we have Phaneuf and Gardiner as two top 4 dmen who are offensive blue liners. With Rielly coming in next year. At the time of the deal it made sense to pick him up given the cost.

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