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2013 NHL Draft Thread II (6/30, 3PM EDT)

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Old
03-30-2013, 01:18 PM
  #401
EspenK
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
You draft one of them or try to make a trade to move down a few spots.
So you don't necessarily draft the BPA; you would(might) trade down to get a lesser player. I'd go for that if I was sure the next guy(s) weren't taking my guy. But I sure as heck wouldn't spend our first pick on a D-man. Although Jarmo says if we are first, Jones is our guy.

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03-30-2013, 01:42 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
So you don't necessarily draft the BPA; you would(might) trade down to get a lesser player. I'd go for that if I was sure the next guy(s) weren't taking my guy. But I sure as heck wouldn't spend our first pick on a D-man. Although Jarmo says if we are first, Jones is our guy.
I would if I didn't think I could get something back in the trade that made it worth trading down. To me, the draft is all about value. You draft BPA, because that is the best value. That value will either be for your team as a player or in a trade in the future to bring something to your team you need. If you can trade down and get the player you feel is best for your team and make up the loss in value through the trade (other pick(s) and/or player(s)) then that is good too.

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03-30-2013, 03:38 PM
  #403
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Taking the BPA might be a little different with Jarmo in charge, especially if he's willing to go off the board and for a player he, JD and the scouts feel is the best player - perhaps a less conservative pick.

There is such a wide group of players who could go in the 5-15 range, dropping down could be dangerous. All it takes is one other team to have the same opinion. But I'd rather see them do that than take a "huh?" player higher in the draft.

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03-30-2013, 04:41 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
Taking the BPA might be a little different with Jarmo in charge, especially if he's willing to go off the board and for a player he, JD and the scouts feel is the best player - perhaps a less conservative pick.

There is such a wide group of players who could go in the 5-15 range, dropping down could be dangerous. All it takes is one other team to have the same opinion. But I'd rather see them do that than take a "huh?" player higher in the draft.
I agree. I would really be happy with a lot of different players depending on where we draft. For example, if we pick in the top 4, I would be happy with any of the top 4. I might want one player more than the others, but you really can't be mad with getting any of them.

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03-30-2013, 04:47 PM
  #405
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The trick of course is defining BPA.

The team's (JK's) list/ranking of players may or may not agree with scouting services, talking heads projections, consensus placements or fan boys choices.

I would bet that we will never really know what factors are considered as the teams draft board is prepared. As tight as so many of the prospect appear to be you would think that positional needs have to have some weight.

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03-30-2013, 04:48 PM
  #406
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Sam Reinhart

It took Sam Reinhart until his team's final game to register a playoff point for the Kootenay Ice this year. Reinhart was a wholly unimpressive -8, with one assist and four penalty minutes through five games. Unfortunately for him, they ran into the powerhouse Edmonton Oil Kings, who won the championship and had a Memorial Cup berth last year. As his team's top offensive weapon, the 17 year old Reinhart was matched up against older, stronger, very talented defensemen; including Keegan Lowe, David Musil, Martin Gernat, Cody Corbett, and older brother Griffin Reinhart. For what it's worth, Edmonton easily has the best defense corps in the WHL ... every one of those guys are big (6'2", 200lb Corbett being the little guy!) ... and the Ice were completely out-matched in every aspect of the game.

It was still a nice story, seeing that team sneak their way into the playoffs. Cranbrook is an amazing little town, and the Ice fans are some of the funnest in the WHL. Hopefully Sam Reinhart comes back next year a little bit stronger ... he should challenge for the top pick at the draft.

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Old
03-31-2013, 02:22 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Of course BPA depends on who is doing the picking. My point is you can't pick a certain player just because it is a need now. Or pass on a certain player just because it isn't a need now.
BPA isn't an absolute principle. Provided the long term projections of a roster show a continued imbalance, and given that it's not always easy to convert your stock of one type of player into another through trade, it makes sense to diversify through the draft.

The word from JD/Jarmo is that they currently have Jones as the only real BPA, and they are focused on impact forwards after that. I think that signals they recognize that we do have a heavily imbalanced roster. I expect us to move up or down on the draft board if we aren't in the best position to draft a forward.

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03-31-2013, 02:38 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Today's question - Lets say the Jackets wind up with the 7th pick-next three consensus BPA's are D-Nurse,Zadorov & Ristolainen. Do you take one or do you go for the next BOPA say Shinkaruk who is ranked 10th?
The best option is moving up or down, but if Jarmo is working the phones and can't get a deal done, and suddenly it's time to pick.....

I'd go with Darnell Nurse. His upside is so much higher than Shinkaruk's, that it's worth his risk, and the hassle that you have to move him and/or some other defenceman later on for forwards.

And not to nitpick, but if you're at 7, one of Nichushkin, Lindholm, Barkov, or Monahan will also be available, so I think your question implies that you meant the 8th pick, or that one of those guys gets hit by a truck.

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03-31-2013, 10:08 AM
  #409
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I'm a little bored this morning and continue to think about the draft and the CBJ position. While I want the CBJ to make the playoffs, I don't feel they will and here is how I would pick depending on the CBJ final draft position with their 1st pick. I'm also seeing the Rangers continue to free fall and we could have two lottery picks. Anyway, here's how I could see this going down depending on position (Again, this is CBJ picking in each position, not necessarily a draft order)

1. Jones
2. McKinnon
3. Drouin
4. Barkov
5. Lindholm
6. Nichushkin
7. Nurse
8. Monohan
9. Zadorov
10. Shinkaruk
11. Ristolainen
12. Gauthier
13. Pulock
14. Domi

I'm not a fan of Erne and concerned about his off ice demeanor/issues. Thinking we could have any of these two players makes me very excited for future playoff opportunities.

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Old
03-31-2013, 11:12 AM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Today's question - Lets say the Jackets wind up with the 7th pick-next three consensus BPA's are D-Nurse,Zadorov & Ristolainen. Do you take one or do you go for the next BOPA say Shinkaruk who is ranked 10th?
Well, I personally have Shinkaruk rounding out the top 7. So if we have the 7th pick and he's there, I take him immediately

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03-31-2013, 01:00 PM
  #411
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Well, I personally have Shinkaruk rounding out the top 7. So if we have the 7th pick and he's there, I take him immediately
I agree. I think for Joey to take the next step he needs a guy like Hunter. Someone who is fast and skilled.

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03-31-2013, 01:07 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
1. Jones
2. McKinnon
3. Drouin
4. Barkov
5. Lindholm
6. Nichushkin
7. Nurse
8. Monohan
9. Zadorov
10. Shinkaruk
11. Ristolainen
12. Gauthier
13. Pulock
14. Domi
My CBJ list is the same as yours in the top 8, and different thereafter:

1. Jones
2. MacKinnon
3. Drouin
4. Barkov
5. Lindholm
6. Nichushkin
7. Nurse
8. Monahan
9. Shinkaruk
10. Domi
11. Ristolainen
12. Rychel
13. Mantha
14. Wennberg

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Old
03-31-2013, 02:06 PM
  #413
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My top 15:

1. MacKinnon
2. Jones
3. Barkov
4. Drouin
5. Lindholm
6. Nichushkin
7. Nurse
8. Monahan
9. Shinkaruk
10. Wennberg
11. Domi
12. Zadorov
13. Ristolainen
14. Erne
15. Zykov

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Old
03-31-2013, 02:22 PM
  #414
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My top 10. Haven't seen enough some players to make good top 15.

1. Jones
2. MacKinnon
3. Barkov
4. Drouin
5. Lindholm
6. Monahan
7. Nichushkin
8. Nurse
9. Shinkaruk
10. Ristolainen

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Old
03-31-2013, 03:05 PM
  #415
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Rather than list a top 10 or so I have a different take. I have several lists by category and if I get any three I'm delighted; the higher I can get up each list the better.

Elite:
Drouin
Jones
McKinnon

Possible top 10:
Lindholm
Nicushkin
Nurse

Remainder:
Wennberg
Mantha
Rychel
Zykov
De La Rose

Obviously a guy on a higher list takes priority over a guy on a lower list, with the possible exception of taking Wennberg or Mantha over Nurse.


Last edited by grindline: 03-31-2013 at 04:36 PM.
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Old
03-31-2013, 03:39 PM
  #416
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Top 15?

1. MacKinnon
2. Jones
3. Drouin
4. Barkov
5. Lindholm
6. Nichuskin
7. Monahan
8. Ristolainen
9. Shinkaruk
10. Nurse
11. Zadorov
12. Pulock
13. Domi
14. Mantha
15. Erne

EDIT: The #1 slot is a split decision for me. I went with MacKinnon because he fits a deeper need in our organization ... but really, I think those two players are very close.

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Old
03-31-2013, 04:51 PM
  #417
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I'd take all the D men out of all the lists.

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Old
03-31-2013, 05:54 PM
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I'd take all the D men out of all the lists.
I can understand why you would say that given our need for offense, however, there are some excellent d-men available at higher levels than some of the offensive players. My opinion...continue to build the asset base and move players for needs. I'd gladly take Nurse, Zadorov, Pulock, Jones and others over some of the mid-range forwards.

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Old
03-31-2013, 07:54 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
I can understand why you would say that given our need for offense, however, there are some excellent d-men available at higher levels than some of the offensive players. My opinion...continue to build the asset base and move players for needs. I'd gladly take Nurse, Zadorov, Pulock, Jones and others over some of the mid-range forwards.
Davidson already said outside of Jones they're looking at "Offense, offense, offense"

But what I see is that it seems more likely at this pace for OUR pick to be in the 14-10 range and NYR's being in the 10-8 range. So honestly for our sake I hope there is a run on Dmen in the 5-9 range. if 3-4(including Jones) dmen get drafted in those mid top 10 area that means a better chance of someone with a serious skill set falls through the cracks to us at one if not both picks. But thats only if both NYR and CBJ both miss the playoffs. I cant see LA missing at the pace theyre going.

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03-31-2013, 07:54 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I'd take all the D men out of all the lists.
I'll assume you're not being literal. We could take Jones and then trade him for a pair of forwards lower on these lists.

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03-31-2013, 08:05 PM
  #421
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I'll assume you're not being literal. We could take Jones and then trade him for a pair of forwards lower on these lists.
Nah if we have the first pick there are only two options. You have a few weeks to start to get a feel of what your going to get offered for the pick. So you either do 1 of two things.

Hold a auction to the highest bidder for the pick.

or

Keep him and have one of the brightest, D corps in the league bar-none.

Wiz-Johnson
Murray-Jones
Tyutin-Nikitin
Prout-Erixon
Moore-Goulobef
Auccoin?

Its not like thats our only pick in the first round. We can still find super talented prospects throughout the first round. But who knows whats going through the heads of JD and JK. I'm sure they have eyes for probably about 10 players that if they can come away with 3 of they will be super stoked. I just wish I knew who they are!

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:04 PM
  #422
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I'll assume you're not being literal. We could take Jones and then trade him for a pair of forwards lower on these lists.
If it were me I'd trade him down one spot for a 2nd rounder and pick Mackinnon. Not what Jarmo said he'd do so my thoughts are irrelevant but I don't see why bypassing a potential #1 center for another D man is a smart thing to do. Sure Lidstrom was a great player but without guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Federov, etc. I don't know if the Wings win like they did for his career. We have a pretty decent D and a D pipeline but no one is going to trade us a #1 pick (Hall, Stamkos, Tavares,etc) for one of them. So my thought is try to draft our own Hall,etc. Sooner or later we need some better offensive players to be serious Cup contenders. So yeah, I'd take them all off.

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03-31-2013, 09:29 PM
  #423
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Honestly I'd be happy with the third pick. A guy like Drouin paired with Joey would be great. Ryan needs guys who can skate and score.

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03-31-2013, 09:50 PM
  #424
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If it were me I'd trade him down one spot for a 2nd rounder and pick Mackinnon. Not what Jarmo said he'd do so my thoughts are irrelevant but I don't see why bypassing a potential #1 center for another D man is a smart thing to do. Sure Lidstrom was a great player but without guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Federov, etc. I don't know if the Wings win like they did for his career. We have a pretty decent D and a D pipeline but no one is going to trade us a #1 pick (Hall, Stamkos, Tavares,etc) for one of them. So my thought is try to draft our own Hall,etc. Sooner or later we need some better offensive players to be serious Cup contenders. So yeah, I'd take them all off.
Jarmo didn't say he wouldn't move down. Jarmo's philosophy is that some players are real BPA's, and you have to take them or trade to a different spot. And the team has identified Jones as the obvious best player, but that doesn't mean they won't trade down. And if he does trade down from the #1 to the #2, I bet he could get more than a second rounder for it. Some GM will think the gap from Jones to Mackinnon is worth at least a first rounder if not an elite prospect or roster player.

And though I'm in complete agreement in focusing on forwards, I think you've misunderstood the exercise of creating a CBJ draft list. You make a list with a player at each draft position with the assumption that you can't move up or down away from it. You can, however, try to trade the player or other players on the roster later on.


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Old
04-01-2013, 05:50 AM
  #425
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Jarmo didn't say he wouldn't move down. Jarmo's philosophy is that some players are real BPA's, and you have to take them or trade to a different spot. And the team has identified Jones as the obvious best player, but that doesn't mean they won't trade down. And if he does trade down from the #1 to the #2, I bet he could get more than a second rounder for it. Some GM will think the gap from Jones to Mackinnon is worth at least a first rounder if not an elite prospect or roster player.

And though I'm in complete agreement in focusing on forwards, I think you've misunderstood the exercise of creating a CBJ draft list. You make a list with a player at each draft position with the assumption that you can't move up or down away from it. You can, however, try to trade the player or other players on the roster later on.
Thanks for the condescending response. I never knew how dumb I was until you showed up. And I dumbly (is that a word?) doubt that any GM would throw in a first to swap places. From my misunderstanding of how this would work, the only people for whom it would make sense to make that kind of a trade (and for us to accept) would be the guy with the 2nd, otherwise we probably aren't getting Mackinnon. So he in effect would be trading what most likely will be a top 5 pick next year for the right to draft Jones. For us to make that trade with any other team doesn't work because then we don't have either Jones or Mackinnon.

And if I recall correctly, Jarmo said something to the effect that if he had the first it would be Jones and after that it would be offense, offense, offense. So while he didn't specifically say he wouldn't move down he sure as heck did imply that.

Of course, unless we win the lottery this is all hypothetical.

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