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Subban's play since coming back Part 2

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Old
04-01-2013, 06:47 AM
  #601
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
People are still butt-hurt about what Gorges said in January???

It does not make any sense when Habs fans say stuff like Gorges needing to be taken down a peg or that Gorges is just a shot blocker so he does not compare to Subban.

Both are integral parts of this team. There is absolutely no reason to take shots at one DMan in order to pump up Subban.

Subban's play on the ice does not need any pumping.
I agree that you need both roles filled, however PK's can only be filled by PK, there are better dman in the league at this point, but he's 23 years old. Only a handful of players can be put in the same breath and Subban plays a role that only he can fill imo. Not necessarily the very best dman in the league, but the best at what he does.

Gorges is replaceable. He contributes in a way that he has to because his offensive awareness/skills are a black hole. I like gorges the player, but find he sounds a little punch drunk in interviews. There are many guys who are sound defensively and block shots. If Gorges could do the things PK can, he would, but he can't so he has found a way to make a career, nothing wrong with that and teams need those guys. I found that when Subban was struggling making poor decisions and growing with maturity some of his team mates piled on instead of supporting Subban. You don't change PK Subban, his swag is what makes him so good. It might rub some of the veterans the wrong way that a 22/23 year old comes in with such confidence and cockiness, but too bad, they need to be supportive, Subbans enthusiasm and desire to be the best is what makes him the player he is.

All Gorges had to say was PK is a future star and an integral part to this team and we can't wait to ave him back or he's an important part to this teams success ect ect. He blew an opportunity to show some unity and be supportive of his star dman.

Luckily for the habs PK has those broad shoulders, because if it had been someone like Louis Leblanc it could have been devastating to hear comments like those, but PK's outstanding character allowed him to take it in stride. Maybe they knew PK would be a better player because of it, maybe they didn't, either way IMO, they should have been more supportive.

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04-01-2013, 06:49 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
1. PK Subban or Patrick Kane (CHI)
2. Pat Kane or PK Subban
3. Jamie Benn (PHX)
4. Ryan McDonagh (LA)
5. Max Pacioretty (WSH)
6. Logan Couture (EDM)
7. Wayne Simmonds (CLB)
8. David Perron (BOS)
9. James VanRiemsdyk (SJ)
10. Kevin Shattenkirk (FLA)
11. Jakub Voracek (CAR)
12. Sam Gagner (MTL)
13. Kyle Turris (STL)
14. Karl Alzner (COL)
15. Brandon Sutter (EDM)
16. Lars Eller (MIN)
17. Mikael Backlund (NYR)
18. Matt Frattin (STL)
19. T.J. Galiardi (ANA)
20. Brendan Smith (PIT)
21. Keaton Ellerby (EDM)
22. Alec Martinez (MTL)

I'm much more happy with PK and Patches.
Bold: my addition/version.

Our D is so screwed without Subban.
He's as important to our Habs as Kane would be...and I may go further in writing that we need Subban more than we need Kane (helps that we have Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Eller...). For us...it's Subban...imo.

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04-01-2013, 06:52 AM
  #603
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Cherry not bashing Subban or the Habs...about time.
(I must be dreaming...a whole 37 seconds on CBC!! they must really hate complimenting the Habs!).

And...another Orr comparison (loving it).


I still think today's hockey is a lot faster, way more dangerous, taller/bigger players, heavier equipment...harder to be a dominating dman today VS in the 60s, 70s and 80s...imho. Harder to score on golaies VS 30-40 yrs ago...no doubt about that. Not to take away any respect from hockey in the past, but...today's hockey is just so much faster and tougher (also more concussions today for a reason).


Gorges and Markov: I'm a huge Gorges fan (especially when he was making less!), but what he said back then in January...that's in the past, but I have to admit...I didn't like his face (facial expression) when he said those things...''why talk about him...this is a team game...let's talk about the team''. Sheesh...it was made so obvious that they just didn't want to welcome Subban back...so obvious. Same with Markov...didn't like how Markov said ''we talk about him when he's in the dressing room...right now he's not here'' (really didn't like how cold they both sounded...like they wanted to ignore Subban like he was **** to the team...).




Go Subban Go!!
I'm not so sure concussions are any more prevalent today than days of yesteryear tbh. I think we have better tools to diagnose them, but concussions were definitely happening in the 80's at a high rate.

I don't know how many times I've seen a player rocked in the 80's, try to get back up and fall down again as his equilibrium was completely out of whack, today they'd be diagnosed, then they'd go to the bench, maybe miss a shift and come back out. Just because we weren't aware of the seriousness or frequency of head injuries then doesn't mean they weren't happening.

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04-01-2013, 06:55 AM
  #604
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2 point game from Subban tonight will put him tops in d-man scoring.

I am more interested in getting the 2 points with the W, but would love to see him get this.

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04-01-2013, 06:58 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I agree that you need both roles filled, however PK's can only be filled by PK, there are better dman in the league at this point, but he's 23 years old. Only a handful of players can be put in the same breath and Subban plays a role that only he can fill imo. Not necessarily the very best dman in the league, but the best at what he does.

Gorges is replaceable. He contributes in a way that he has to because his offensive awareness/skills are a black hole. I like gorges the player, but find he sounds a little punch drunk in interviews. There are many guys who are sound defensively and block shots. If Gorges could do the things PK can, he would, but he can't so he has found a way to make a career, nothing wrong with that and teams need those guys. I found that when Subban was struggling making poor decisions and growing with maturity some of his team mates piled on instead of supporting Subban. You don't change PK Subban, his swag is what makes him so good. It might rub some of the veterans the wrong way that a 22/23 year old comes in with such confidence and cockiness, but too bad, they need to be supportive, Subbans enthusiasm and desire to be the best is what makes him the player he is.

All Gorges had to say was PK is a future star and an integral part to this team and we can't wait to ave him back or he's an important part to this teams success ect ect. He blew an opportunity to show some unity and be supportive of his star dman.

Luckily for the habs PK has those broad shoulders, because if it had been someone like Louis Leblanc it could have been devastating to hear comments like those, but PK's outstanding character allowed him to take it in stride
. Maybe they knew PK would be a better player because of it, maybe they didn't, either way IMO, they should have been more supportive.
VERY VERY true.

And...love how everyone is forgetting that Markov was also in on it but we have to shelter Markov!!!

Markov said ''what do I think about PK coming back? why you ask me this? is he here? he's not here yet...ask me when he's here...ask me about the team...''

What a HUGE ******* YOU to Subban if you ask me.
No welcome mat, no nothing...just a huge f you.

Look at Subban now...one of the best dmen in the history of the NHL...if not the best already.
Almost every dman out there is so boring to watch compared to Subban (hard not to admit that or just hard-headed).

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04-01-2013, 07:03 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I'm not so sure concussions are any more prevalent today than days of yesteryear tbh. I think we have better tools to diagnose them, but concussions were definitely happening in the 80's at a high rate.

I don't know how many times I've seen a player rocked in the 80's, try to get back up and fall down again as his equilibrium was completely out of whack, today they'd be diagnosed, then they'd go to the bench, maybe miss a shift and come back out. Just because we weren't aware of the seriousness or frequency of head injuries then doesn't mean they weren't happening.
Fair enough, but let's not just stick to concussions....

Anytime or everytime I see footage from the 70's and 80s...I'm amazed at the difference. The goalies look terrible (even the quipment was terrible compared to late 90s)...sliding here and there like old-timers and the speed is almost slow motion compared to today's speed. Players weren't as fast as today...very obvious from footage. Subban is dominating in 2013 when the game has never been played at a faster pace/speed.

Imho!

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04-01-2013, 07:12 AM
  #607
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god almighty

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04-01-2013, 07:14 AM
  #608
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VERY VERY true.

And...love how everyone is forgetting that Markov was also in on it but we have to shelter Markov!!!

Markov said ''what do I think about PK coming back? why you ask me this? is he here? he's not here yet...ask me when he's here...ask me about the team...''

What a HUGE ******* YOU to Subban if you ask me.
No welcome mat, no nothing...just a huge f you.

Look at Subban now...one of the best dmen in the history of the NHL...if not the best already.
Almost every dman out there is so boring to watch compared to Subban (hard not to admit that or just hard-headed).
With Markov he loves to troll the media, I give him a pass on this as he was likely getting tired of being bombarded with the same ridiculous questions, perhaps he wasn't able to articulate his answer well, kind of lost in translation kind of deal, the jubilation and delight from Markov when PK scores on the PP shows me that Markov is supportive of Subban 100%.

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04-01-2013, 07:16 AM
  #609
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Bobby Orr scored 120 in 1970. That's 43 years ago. You cannot compare eras, it's dumb.

Bobby Orr would not score 120pts if he was 22 playing today in a full NHL season. Would not happen. Watch a game from the 70s, then watch one today, it's two different leagues. Players today are in much better conditioning, much faster, stronger, equipment is completely different, opposition is a lot stronger.


Who would be better Orr vs PK had they played at the same time? Who freaking knows. Everything is different. Orr scored 135pts in his last season with the Bruins, when's the last time we saw a player score 135pts in the NHL? Does this mean Orr would be the best player today? No it doesn't.

You can't compare eras. Everything was different.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000

I find it so hard to believe that there are still hard-headed people that cannot admit that the NHL 45 years ago is soooooo different compared to today's NHL.

A dman getting 65-75pts today may be worth 140-150pts back then..maybe more. Everything was in slow motion back then (60s-70s- even in the 80s) compared to today's super super fast NHL.

And to those Hab fans that will take Karlsson over Subban...go watch the Sens. I'm not sure if Karlsson can be an iron-man like Subban.


p.s.: if we could send Subban to the 70s...he'd probably skate circles around everyone. Maybe Subban would get 150pts+, maybe way more than 150pts, since Orr reached 135pts...and that was in the 70s when the NHL was in slow motion.

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04-01-2013, 07:24 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
With Markov he loves to troll the media, I give him a pass on this as he was likely getting tired of being bombarded with the same ridiculous questions, perhaps he wasn't able to articulate his answer well, kind of lost in translation kind of deal, the jubilation and delight from Markov when PK scores on the PP shows me that Markov is supportive of Subban 100%.
Well, I prefer this way of thinking as well...since we're all so happy to finally see Markov stay healthy (knock on wood, but I'd get insurance in case). Love to see how Markov becomes so happy with Subban on ice. Such a change from his constant grumpy/sad look!

Still happy to see Subban AND Markov on our roster...makes for a better team. Was always getting so tired of waiting season after season for Markov. I hope the luck in the health department can continue.

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04-01-2013, 07:30 AM
  #611
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Fair enough, but let's not just stick to concussions....

Anytime or everytime I see footage from the 70's and 80s...I'm amazed at the difference. The goalies look terrible (even the quipment was terrible compared to late 90s)...sliding here and there like old-timers and the speed is almost slow motion compared to today's speed. Players weren't as fast as today...very obvious from footage. Subban is dominating in 2013 when the game has never been played at a faster pace/speed.

Imho!
I think the difference is often exaggerated tbh. The bottom tier players are often faster ect, but the top talent was every bit as quick as todays. Mike Gartner still holds the faster skater award.

There are many example of players playing across more than one era and they manage to remain at the top of the league. Joe Sakic, Teemu Selanne, Jaromir Jagr, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux on one leg scored 35 goals in 43 games. Lidstrom won Norris trophies in his 40's, Bourque was an all-star in 1979 and allstar in 2001. Chris Chelios played until he was 47. mark recchi until 43 and on and on. Sure these are some of the greatest names of all time, but if the league had evolved at the alarming rate that many seem to suggest, these players players would not be at the top of the league at 35+ years old. There are many, many more too.

Gretzky was 97/90 point player at 36/37 years old in the mid 90's when scoring was very low and the evolution of goaltending equipment/style and clutching and grabbing was at an all tie high, all while playing with an injury that no other player in any sport had recovered from. His injury is often overlooked, but was most definitely career threatening and the dr who diagnosed Wayne thought he would never play again, he missed 39 games and was a shell of himself, but he still managed to keep pace with Jaromir Jagr, jagr obviously was the better scorer by then and one of the greatest offensive threats in the history of the game and a 37 year old gretzky with age and injuries working against him along with some of the highest miles put on by a nhl player didn't look out of place.

He led the WJC in scoring as a 16 year old for crying out loud. lol

Gretzky didn't just score oodles of points because it was the 80's, no one else was doing it aside from Mario and one season by Stevie Y, some of the greatest to ever play without a doubt. He was crushing everyone in the league and he crushed everyone in international play as well. Once again, the leading scorer with his assists alone, on top of that he was the leading goal scorer too, haha. He has twice as many points as the next closest scorer in the 4 Canada cups and lead all of them in scoring, simply ridiculous. He was beating up 15 yr olds as a 12 yr old and on and on. I believe the 80's was as much a product of gretzky and the oilers as much gretzky was a product of the 80's.


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04-01-2013, 07:32 AM
  #612
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Well, I prefer this way of thinking as well...since we're all so happy to finally see Markov stay healthy (knock on wood, but I'd get insurance in case). Love to see how Markov becomes so happy with Subban on ice. Such a change from his constant grumpy/sad look!

Still happy to see Subban AND Markov on our roster...makes for a better team. Was always getting so tired of waiting season after season for Markov. I hope the luck in the health department can continue.
Been waiting three years to see the general and pk together, I am happier than a pig in ****.

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04-01-2013, 07:33 AM
  #613
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Who are the greatest defensemen who played for the Habs?

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04-01-2013, 07:38 AM
  #614
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+1000000000000000000000000000000000000

I find it so hard to believe that there are still hard-headed people that cannot admit that the NHL 45 years ago is soooooo different compared to today's NHL.

A dman getting 65-75pts today may be worth 140-150pts back then..maybe more. Everything was in slow motion back then (60s-70s- even in the 80s) compared to today's super super fast NHL.

And to those Hab fans that will take Karlsson over Subban...go watch the Sens. I'm not sure if Karlsson can be an iron-man like Subban.


p.s.: if we could send Subban to the 70s...he'd probably skate circles around everyone. Maybe Subban would get 150pts+, maybe way more than 150pts, since Orr reached 135pts...and that was in the 70s when the NHL was in slow motion.
I'm not sure you had seen Bobby Orr, if you had, you couldn't possibly make these assertions. The league was a bit watered down at the time because of the WHA and expansion, but Bobby Orr is undoubtedly the best dman to ever lace up skates. There is zero chance he wouldn't be the best dman in the league today. I've already posted a list of players who transcended eras and remained at the top of the league even as age and decline were setting in. It would be no different for the greatest dman ever.

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04-01-2013, 07:41 AM
  #615
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Who are the greatest defensemen who played for the Habs?
1. Harvey
2. Robinson
3. Lapointe
4. Savard
5. Chelios/Tremblay/Markov/Langway
9. Bouchard
10. Laperrière

Hon mention to Schneider, Brisebois, Johnson, Talbot

Is my rough list, pre-coffee.

Probably forgot some people though.

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04-01-2013, 07:50 AM
  #616
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Been waiting three years to see the general and pk together, I am happier than a pig in ****.
Haha!! Funny image!! Hab fan including me happier than a pig in ****!!! Three ******** years!! What a wait, eh! Hope we never have to wait that long again for one of our top 3 dman.

And, I really hope it continues...a healthy core for playoffs (Subban, Markov, Gorges...and hopefully Diaz can come back a 100% for playoffs).



And about your comments about the 60s-70-80s and Orr...very interesting comments and makes sense. And yes I have to respect the legendary Orr... but maybe I'll just stick to talking about the best in today's NHL. After all we can't prove any of these observations/comparisons (today's NHL vs 60s-70s-80s NHL) and opinions...since they're all opinions (but always an interesting topic), but I have (and will) show respect to you and others who have watched Orr way more than I have (I've only seen footage here and there, so...I'm guilty).

I'm just extremely excited that Subban is wearing the CH jersey...so glad he's not in a LEAF or BRUINS' jersey...

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04-01-2013, 08:01 AM
  #617
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Who are the greatest defensemen who played for the Habs?
Since Chelios left/was traded...

Odelein
Malakhov (when felt like playing)
Schneider
Desjardins
Souray
healthy Markov
Gorges
and of course...PK Subban.

HM:
JJ Daigneault, Brisebois??, Popovic?!, Hamrlik


Forgetting some...

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04-01-2013, 08:12 AM
  #618
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Since Chelios left/was traded...

Odelein
Malakhov (when felt like playing)
Schneider
Desjardins
Souray
healthy Markov
Gorges
and of course...PK Subban.

HM:
JJ Daigneault, Brisebois??, Popovic?!, Hamrlik


Forgetting some...
Just wondering where PK ranks in term of the franchise defensemen's history.

For some reason, I hope he gets his number retired. Wondering how much he still has to go.

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04-01-2013, 09:17 AM
  #619
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Just wondering where PK ranks in term of the franchise defensemen's history.

For some reason, I hope he gets his number retired. Wondering how much he still has to go.
Ohh about another decade or so

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04-01-2013, 09:23 AM
  #620
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Ohh about another decade or so
Lol

IF Subban ever have his number retired, it'll be when he'll reach his mid- to late-40s. With 3-4 Stanley Cup rings as bling.


Just wondering in term of skill and performance level, if he has the potential to be part of the Top 5 Best D Habs in history.

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04-01-2013, 09:49 AM
  #621
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Subban is barely better than Del Zotto.

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04-01-2013, 09:50 AM
  #622
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Just wondering in term of skill and performance level, if he has the potential to be part of the Top 5 Best D Habs in history.
The top 4 is almost impossible to crack, however Subban MIGHT just have the talent to do it.

1. Harvey
2. Robinson
3. Lapointe
4. Savard
5. Chelios/Tremblay/Markov/Langway
9. Bouchard
10. Laperrière


I'd say he could slot into the #5 position, if his career continues to be great, for the next 15 years or so.

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04-01-2013, 11:03 AM
  #623
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Subban is the 2nd star of the month in the NHL.

Quote:
SECOND STAR -- P.K. SUBBAN, D, MONTREAL CANADIENS

Subban led all defensemen with 18 points (7-11—18) in 14 games and paced all skaters with 11 power-play points (4-7—11). He collected points in nine of 14 games, including seven multi-point outings, and recorded a career-high three assists at the Florida Panthers March 10 -- a number he then matched against the New York Rangers March 30. Subban's seven goals were the most in one month by a Canadiens defenseman since Mathieu Schneider had seven in February 1994. The 23-year-old Toronto, Ont., native leads all NHL blueliners with 10 goals and ranks third among defensemen with 27 points in 28 games this season. His six power-play goals are tied for first among defensemen, while his 18 power-play points rank third in the League overall.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...id=DL|NHL|home

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04-01-2013, 11:11 AM
  #624
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Subban is the 2nd star of the month in the NHL.



http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...id=DL|NHL|home
Very nice.

Only bested by Crosby who has been insane this year and over the last month.

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04-01-2013, 11:43 AM
  #625
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Subban is the 2nd star of the month in the NHL.



http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...id=DL|NHL|home
But Suter is better right? I don't see it. (This is in reference to DirtyDanglez, not you SC74)


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