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What should Chevy do at the deadline? V2.0 New and improved! Pls read OP

View Poll Results: What should he do?
Keep Hainsey and re-sign 40 37.74%
Keep Hainsey and let him walk 8 7.55%
Sell Hainsey for draft picks/prospects 46 43.40%
Sell Hainsey for roster players 26 24.53%
Keep Antropov and re-sign 29 27.36%
Keep Antropov and let him walk 14 13.21%
Sell Antropov for draft picks/prospects 47 44.34%
Sell Antropov for roster players 14 13.21%
Buy players with our draft picks/prospects 32 30.19%
Don't buy players with our draft picks/prospects 42 39.62%
Roster player trade not including Antropov/Hainsey 31 29.25%
Don't do a roster player trade 19 17.92%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-31-2013, 09:24 PM
  #126
sully1410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Also means the 2013 UFA D pool looks even more empty...
Even more of a reason to resign the guy.

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03-31-2013, 09:46 PM
  #127
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it may look empty right now. but keep in mind there are going to be a LOT of cap casualties in the offseason

not saying that in regards to trading or not trading hainsey

but a lot of ppl are overlooking how many teams will be in tough to make the cap. a lot of "decent" players will be bought out and available

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03-31-2013, 09:48 PM
  #128
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Getting tired of hearing this. The Jets are nowhere near the calibre a team that the LA Kings were last year. I personally would rather get a higher pick(s) this year than squeak into the playoffs only to get our a**'s handed to us. As of right now we are a team without a killer instinct and we have yet to develop an identity. There are too many 'seat fillers' on this team, but we will be a contender once our draft picks mature into legitimate NHL players.







Once you get to the playoffs, anything can happen.

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03-31-2013, 09:52 PM
  #129
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Antro and Hainsey are the least of Chevys concerns. We've got 17 upcoming FA's on the roster, and almost all the non roster guys are up for contracts too.

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03-31-2013, 10:01 PM
  #130
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Antro and Hainsey are the least of Chevys concerns. We've got 17 upcoming FA's on the roster, and almost all the non roster guys are up for contracts too.
I count 28. 29 if you include RFA D Brett Festerling who has his rights expire at the end of the season.

From my Jets organizational chart.

2013 Free Agents
UFA RFA
Nik Antropov (C) Blake Wheeler* (RW)
Antti Miettien (LW) Bryan Little* (C)
Aaron Gagnon (C) Jason Gregoire (LW)
Kyle Wellwood (RW) Patrice Cormier (C)
Ron Hainsey (D) Eric O'Dell (C)
Derek Meech (D) Zack Redmond (D)
Grant Clitsome (D) Edward Pasquale (G)
Al Montoya (G) Chris Carrozzi (G)
Mark Dekanich (G) Ben Maxwell (C)
Brett Festerling (D) (RFA) Tobas Kubalik (RW)
Jason Jaffray (LW) Maxime Macenauer (C)
 Zach Bogosian* (D)
 Anthony Peluso (RW)
 Eric Tangradi (LW)
 Arturs Kulda (D)
 Alex Burmistrov (C)
 Will O'Neill (D)
 Paul Postma (D)
*Denotes arbitration eligible

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03-31-2013, 10:19 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenJet89 View Post
it may look empty right now. but keep in mind there are going to be a LOT of cap casualties in the offseason

not saying that in regards to trading or not trading hainsey

but a lot of ppl are overlooking how many teams will be in tough to make the cap. a lot of "decent" players will be bought out and available
That's what Boston's GM said once... You can ask their fans how that worked out for them. It's still a sore spot for a lot of them.

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04-01-2013, 12:09 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
I agree with most of what you said. Atlanta did rush their prospects but really only Burmi is suffering any long term effects.
You don't think Kane and Bogosian would've improved faster with more development time? I still see flaws in their games that could've been fixed years ago. Kane is too one dimensional, and Bogosian still has serious issues with defensive zone coverage. The problem is Atlanta didn't have any sort of development system, I don't even think they had a proper AHL affiliate.

Quote:
And you can't hold your picks out until they are 21 just on principal. You bring them in as they are ready. Just as much damage can be done to stagnate a player's development if they are playing against competition they have out grown. IMO Trouba will be an example of this.
I don't think that's true, but development through an AHL system for all but absolutely elite players is the best path.


Last edited by allan5oh: 04-01-2013 at 12:41 AM.
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04-01-2013, 12:50 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
You don't think Kane and Bogosian would've improved faster with more development time? I still see flaws in their games that could've been fixed years ago. Kane is too one dimensional, and Bogosian still has serious issues with defensive zone coverage. The problem is Atlanta didn't have any sort of development system, I don't even think they had a proper AHL affiliate.



I don't think that's true, but development through an AHL system for all but absolutely elite players is the best path.
I do think it wouldn't have helped for Kane.
He was ready for NHL and proved it by doing well given the conditions.
I don't think it's rushing if someone is ready.
Bogosian is iffy. He had a really great first season, but then seemed to falter.

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04-01-2013, 02:17 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenJet89 View Post
it may look empty right now. but keep in mind there are going to be a LOT of cap casualties in the offseason

not saying that in regards to trading or not trading hainsey

but a lot of ppl are overlooking how many teams will be in tough to make the cap. a lot of "decent" players will be bought out and available
It's great that suddenly Winnipeg is a choice city for quality UFAs to sign

If the Jets don't resign Hainsey it is going to come back and bite them in the ass.

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04-01-2013, 07:16 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
You don't think Kane and Bogosian would've improved faster with more development time? I still see flaws in their games that could've been fixed years ago. Kane is too one dimensional, and Bogosian still has serious issues with defensive zone coverage. The problem is Atlanta didn't have any sort of development system, I don't even think they had a proper AHL affiliate.


I don't think that's true, but development through an AHL system for all but absolutely elite players is the best path.
How would spending 2 more years in Junior help either Bogo or Kane? You think Bogo would learn better defensive zone coverage against 16 year olds he could manhandle in his sleep? If Bogo has serious d zone issues then that applies to all our entire defense as he and Hainsey play against the toughest competition by quite a large margin. So this is then a coaching problem.

Do you think Kane becomes less one dimensional when scoring comes easier and easier for him? He was so stunted in his growth he only scored 30 goals as a 20 year old with next to nothing for line mates and translated that into 6 year $ 5+ M. contract.


Kane and Bogo are elite players...we only have a handful of them they are not hard to miss.

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04-01-2013, 07:31 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
How would spending 2 more years in Junior help either Bogo or Kane? You think Bogo would learn better defensive zone coverage against 16 year olds he could manhandle in his sleep? If Bogo has serious d zone issues then that applies to all our entire defense as he and Hainsey play against the toughest competition by quite a large margin. So this is then a coaching problem.

Do you think Kane becomes less one dimensional when scoring comes easier and easier for him? He was so stunted in his growth he only scored 30 goals as a 20 year old with next to nothing for line mates and translated that into 6 year $ 5+ M. contract.


Kane and Bogo are elite players...we only have a handful of them they are not hard to miss.
Neither of them are elite players actually, but hopefully they will be soon.

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04-01-2013, 07:37 AM
  #137
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Neither of them are elite players actually, but hopefully they will be soon.
Sorry I should have said as 18 year olds they were both elite prospects...but I agree they are both on their way to being elite players.

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04-01-2013, 07:43 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
You don't think Kane and Bogosian would've improved faster with more development time? I still see flaws in their games that could've been fixed years ago. Kane is too one dimensional, and Bogosian still has serious issues with defensive zone coverage. The problem is Atlanta didn't have any sort of development system, I don't even think they had a proper AHL affiliate.



I don't think that's true, but development through an AHL system for all but absolutely elite players is the best path.
would you have any respect for an organization that refused to give you a raise/promotion "on principal" even though it was quite evident you would be better at the job they were paying other people 10x the amount to do? (as in 10x your ahl salary)

I wouldn't.

"development through the ahl" is the most overstated phrase on here. "oh but detroit does it" right, and they've graduated so many superstars since datsyuk and holmstrom.

"not rushing prospects" doesn't mean forcing them to play in the AHL for a year (which means 2+ junior years) just for fa****s and giggles. it means not bringing them up to the team for any reason other then they've proved they need to be there (atlanta known for bringing players up to drum up interest, much like the oilers with sam gagne, etc etc)

it doesn't mean theres a one size fits all policy for everyone. that's stupid. that's as stupid as saying any first round pick gets a cakewalk onto the roster. it's the exact same thing. It's deciding what to do with a prospect in leu of actually evaluating where they are, what they're capabilities are, and what would best serve them.

making everyone go to the ahl is wrong. there's no two ways about it, that's wrong.
letting every firstround pick get easy entry to the roster is wrong.

what's right is evaluating where your players are every year, and letting them make/force the decision with there play.

anything else is shortsighted and ineffectual all for the sake of some self-serving "plan" just to say "we made him work for it". And that my friend, is bull-****.

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04-01-2013, 08:38 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
It's great that suddenly Winnipeg is a choice city for quality UFAs to sign

If the Jets don't resign Hainsey it is going to come back and bite them in the ass.
It's likely not the Jets' call, it's Hainsey's. Do you think he is loyal enough to the organization to accept a fair extension offer rather than test the open market?
The only decision the Jets have control over is whether getting value for him before the deadline is worth the loss of production for 10 games +/- playoffs.

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04-01-2013, 08:46 AM
  #140
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This is going to be an interesting trade deadline for us for sure. It will even be interesting in regards to any deals we don't make. (If we hang on to all of our UFA's).

I think our recent stretch of games has made things more challenging for Cheveldayoff. If we would have done better going back to the Washington home games, it would most likely look like the division was locked up, and he might have been more inclined to add a few pieces to help in the playoffs. Now with the playoffs being anything but a certainty, I'm not sure what Chevy's mindset will be.

In regards to Hainsey, I don't know if there is an absolute correct answer. I can definitely see pro's and con's to all courses of action. I think that is where the discussion comes from, in that there isn't A or B, but varying conditions, and "If's" on both sides of the argument.

For me, I don't know if I have 1 preferred outcome, but more of a preferred order of outcomes, which all depend on certain conditions. In order:

1) Resign Hainsey before the TD - The condition here is that we would have to get him on an acceptable contract. I don't see a replacement for Hainsey either in the org, or in FA. Considering we are two days to the TD, I'm not sure how feasible this option is. Of course all the Jets can really do here is make their best offer. It's up to Hainsey if he wants to re-sign or test UFA. I wouldn't blame the guy if he tested UFA to get one last big contract.

2) Trade Hainsey at the deadline - The condition here is that the return has to be substantial. It has to be enough to not allow Chevy to refuse, and enough to offset the loss of Hainsey's contributions to the rest of this season and helping this team make the playoffs.

3) Keep Hainsey at the deadline - IF the return on dealing Hainsey at the deadline isn't substantial, it's probably more beneficial to have him onboard to try and make the playoffs and get the team that experience. Because that has value as well.

The key point between #2 and #3 is the potential return in a trade. I'm looking at it like a scale with the weights on either side. On one side is the value in the playoffs and Hainsey's value in making that happen, and on the other side is the return in a trade. It's highly subjective, and I don't even know what I would consider enough (1st?), but a trade return has to be enough to tip the scale that way for me.

4) Resign Hainsey before UFA - If the Jets go with #3, I hope they try to resign him before he goes to UFA. Of course the condition is that it has to be a good deal, but like #1, I'm not sure where his replacement comes from.

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04-01-2013, 08:53 AM
  #141
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Jets need a finess 2rw.. How to get it, I do not really know

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04-01-2013, 09:17 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
making everyone go to the ahl is wrong. there's no two ways about it, that's wrong.
letting every firstround pick get easy entry to the roster is wrong.

what's right is evaluating where your players are every year, and letting them make/force the decision with there play.
I agree with you there, but I think all but absolutely elite players should at least stay another year in juniors. The problem is are they being developed properly in juniors? If they aren't there's no point.

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04-01-2013, 09:46 AM
  #143
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Smid signed an extension today. So the market is fetting even more bare.
Unless Chevy knows for sure he can re-sign Hainsey, he should sell high right away

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04-01-2013, 09:47 AM
  #144
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"development through the ahl" is the most overstated phrase on here. "oh but detroit does it" right, and they've graduated so many superstars since datsyuk and holmstrom.
That's because they've had what, four first round picks in the past 10 years? And even those are quite low. Yet their prospect pool is among the best in the league.

Even without their 1st round picks, they usually get 2-3 NHLers per draft. That's unbelievably good. They seem to do very well trading these players for pieces they need.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...gs_draft_picks

Scouting is also so much better compared to when Datsyuk and Holmstrom were drafted. It's incredibly rare for a superstar to go past the 2nd round.

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04-01-2013, 10:17 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
This is going to be an interesting trade deadline for us for sure. It will even be interesting in regards to any deals we don't make. (If we hang on to all of our UFA's).

I think our recent stretch of games has made things more challenging for Cheveldayoff. If we would have done better going back to the Washington home games, it would most likely look like the division was locked up, and he might have been more inclined to add a few pieces to help in the playoffs. Now with the playoffs being anything but a certainty, I'm not sure what Chevy's mindset will be.

In regards to Hainsey, I don't know if there is an absolute correct answer. I can definitely see pro's and con's to all courses of action. I think that is where the discussion comes from, in that there isn't A or B, but varying conditions, and "If's" on both sides of the argument.

For me, I don't know if I have 1 preferred outcome, but more of a preferred order of outcomes, which all depend on certain conditions. In order:

1) Resign Hainsey before the TD - The condition here is that we would have to get him on an acceptable contract. I don't see a replacement for Hainsey either in the org, or in FA. Considering we are two days to the TD, I'm not sure how feasible this option is. Of course all the Jets can really do here is make their best offer. It's up to Hainsey if he wants to re-sign or test UFA. I wouldn't blame the guy if he tested UFA to get one last big contract.

2) Trade Hainsey at the deadline - The condition here is that the return has to be substantial. It has to be enough to not allow Chevy to refuse, and enough to offset the loss of Hainsey's contributions to the rest of this season and helping this team make the playoffs.

3) Keep Hainsey at the deadline - IF the return on dealing Hainsey at the deadline isn't substantial, it's probably more beneficial to have him onboard to try and make the playoffs and get the team that experience. Because that has value as well.

The key point between #2 and #3 is the potential return in a trade. I'm looking at it like a scale with the weights on either side. On one side is the value in the playoffs and Hainsey's value in making that happen, and on the other side is the return in a trade. It's highly subjective, and I don't even know what I would consider enough (1st?), but a trade return has to be enough to tip the scale that way for me.

4) Resign Hainsey before UFA - If the Jets go with #3, I hope they try to resign him before he goes to UFA. Of course the condition is that it has to be a good deal, but like #1, I'm not sure where his replacement comes from.
These are my exact feelings too.

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04-01-2013, 10:35 AM
  #146
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The Jets have supposedly had scouts at the last two Sabres games.

Could mean a "buy" is still on the table.

What would it take to land Ott or Stafford? Who could be had for cheaper (assets)?

Ott is producing more for less money and with less term, does that make him the cheaper option? Stafford has more upside, but he has a lot of $ and term headed his way if he flops.


Just spit-balling... likelihood is nothing happens.

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04-01-2013, 10:37 AM
  #147
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According to Buffalo fans, Ott would be about the last player they would trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Could mean a "buy" is still on the table.
I don't think Chevy is one to ever pull anything off the table. He seems to like to keep all options open. I wouldn't be surprised if we sold Hainsey and bought Stafford. But only if the price is right for both.

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04-01-2013, 10:48 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
The Jets have supposedly had scouts at the last two Sabres games.

Could mean a "buy" is still on the table.

What would it take to land Ott or Stafford? Who could be had for cheaper (assets)?

Ott is producing more for less money and with less term, does that make him the cheaper option? Stafford has more upside, but he has a lot of $ and term headed his way if he flops.


Just spit-balling... likelihood is nothing happens.
Stafford might be a nice pickup if he comes relatively cheap. He is having an off year but he does have one 30 and two 20 goal seasons on his resume. If he re-finds his scoring touch his $ 4 m per contract is not too bad.

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04-01-2013, 10:51 AM
  #149
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I don't think he would come very cheap.

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04-01-2013, 10:54 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Stafford might be a nice pickup if he comes relatively cheap. He is having an off year but he does have one 30 and two 20 goal seasons on his resume. If he re-finds his scoring touch his $ 4 m per contract is not too bad.
Yeah. His value will en very interesting to watch. Zero teams were interested in Jussi because of one year at $3MM, how many would be eager to take on Stafford at $4MM for two years. It is good value if he rebounds, but how many teams will have the cap space to take that gamble?

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