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All Encompassing Tortorella Thread Pt. II

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Old
04-01-2013, 01:51 AM
  #701
Ryan McDonut
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I think Tortorella's mind games work great when he has something easy to use. Last season, the Rangers faced a ton of external adversity in the first 3 months of the season. First, their trip to Europe. Second, their being on the road until the end of October. Third, the build up to the Winter Classic including 24/7. Fourth, missing their best defenseman, who was an all-star the previous year, from the very beginning of the season. Tortorella was successfully able to take all of that and give his team some extra urgency to keep the focus internal. I don't think it's a coincidence that the team's slide into .500 hockey came soon after all of that stuff was over. Nothing has happened to give Tortorella that catalyst this season and bind the team closer to each other.
so how about he stops using "mid games" and that nonsense and actually "coaches" offense


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04-01-2013, 01:55 AM
  #702
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I seriously doubt anyone, whether it's a Rangers beat writer, Torts or his family members, the water boy, or the fans on the outside looking in, really know what the players think of Torts.
Couple of years ago I talked with a former (then current) Rangers player who told what he thinks about Tortorella and what is going on in the locker room. Players do talk about their work to their friends and family members.

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04-01-2013, 02:06 AM
  #703
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Problem is the city is too big of a distraction for too many players. Too much fun and partying. A coach who will preach pure creativity won't do it for this team, he'll lose the locker room in a different way than it seems Torts has now. You need a coach who will preach creativity AND discipline, both on and off the ice. Not easy to find that.

I'd love a hockey version of Mike Woodson.

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04-01-2013, 02:16 AM
  #704
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Couple of years ago I talked with a former (then current) Rangers player who told what he thinks about Tortorella and what is going on in the locker room. Players do talk about their work to their friends and family members.
I like how you vividly described what this said player thought about him..

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04-01-2013, 02:19 AM
  #705
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Originally Posted by IBleedNYRBlue View Post
I like how you vividly described what this said player thought about him..
I know a player that won the Cup with him. His description of Tortorella was far from being praiseworthy. Yet he did say he was consistent at being a maniac.

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04-01-2013, 02:20 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by IBleedNYRBlue View Post
I like how you vividly described what this said player thought about him..
The point isn't what was said, it's that they do talk about their work and what they think about other people. They are normal people who need to vent just like the next guy.

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04-01-2013, 02:26 AM
  #707
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This might have been the best thing Avery ever did for the team. It might be the thing that pulls enough of them together to win some games. We shall see.

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04-01-2013, 02:29 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by vstk View Post
The point isn't what was said, it's that they do talk about their work and what they think about other people. They are normal people who need to vent just like the next guy.
It's one thing to vent to a close friend of family member. You know if you vent to your wife she isn't going to jump online and tell her 50-100k followers what you just said.

It's a completely different animal to vent to anyone connected to the twitterverse like Avery is, or to vent to anyone connected to the media.

So people coming up with "proof" of the condition of the locker room, like posting something Avery or a beat writer said, is just conjecture.

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04-01-2013, 02:33 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
It's a completely different animal to vent to anyone connected to the twitterverse like Avery is, or to vent to anyone connected to the media.

So people coming up with "proof" of the condition of the locker room, like posting something Avery or a beat writer said, is just conjecture.
I've said it from the beginning that we have no idea what the truth is and have no way of knowing if Avery is doing this for his own sake or if he is doing a favor to a few friends currently on the team. Only a handful of people know. All we can do, is speculate. But, Avery has an educated opinion as he is in the inner circle and has the means to get the information. It makes his comment worth, something.

Truth or not, I don't really care. But it's interesting.

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04-01-2013, 02:34 AM
  #710
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This might have been the best thing Avery ever did for the team. It might be the thing that pulls enough of them together to win some games. We shall see.
I'm just waiting for some of Torts' biggest boosters to suggest this was done on purpose by Avery and Torts to distract the media & fans from the teams poor performance. (You know, the ones who suggest all of his temper tantrums to the media are on purpose and a manipulation to "take the pressure off the team".)

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04-01-2013, 02:35 AM
  #711
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I've said it from the beginning that we have no idea what the truth is and have no way of knowing if Avery is doing this for his own sake or if he is doing a favor to a few friends currently on the team. Only a handful of people know. All we can do, is speculate. But, Avery has an educated opinion as he is in the inner circle and has the means to get the information. It makes his comment worth, something.

Truth or not, I don't really care. But it's interesting.
Agreed.

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04-01-2013, 02:58 AM
  #712
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You think Richards, who had some of his best years of his career under Torts and did most of his career winning including winning a cup as the playoff MVP, hates Torts?

And Avery isn't a part of the "atmosphere surrounding the organization."
He played for Tortorella a long time ago. People change. Richards was a young guy still finding his way in the league the first time they were together. Now, he's an established player. A guys reaction to the same type of coaching can be very different at two different points in his career.

Avery isn't part of the atmosphere, but I think he is a symptom of it.

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04-01-2013, 03:16 AM
  #713
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I don't give a **** about Avery and what he says. However, there comes a point during the tenure of any coach who motivates through being a hard-ass where the team no longer responds to him. I think we've reached it with Tortorella. So, regardless of what I think about his system (I think it works, but can't stand it, personally) or his coaching style (I think it is effective, but short-lived), I believe the time has come for him to move on.

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:38 AM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
He played for Tortorella a long time ago. People change. Richards was a young guy still finding his way in the league the first time they were together. Now, he's an established player. A guys reaction to the same type of coaching can be very different at two different points in his career.

Avery isn't part of the atmosphere, but I think he is a symptom of it.
Richards could have gone anywhere just a year ago and he chose to go to a team coached by Torts. I really, really doubt that in the past year he went from wanting to play for Torts' team specifically to having such huge problems with the guy that he's venting to Avery about him. Further, of all people, Richards has the least to complain about. The guy has looked like garbage all season and Torts has been feeding him top 6 minutes anyway.

Also, Avery caused problems in Dallas as well. He's not a symptom of this atmosphere, he's just a guy with a particularly odd attitude IMO.

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04-01-2013, 05:56 AM
  #715
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So what's causing it?

Losing

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Old
04-01-2013, 06:40 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
There's one problem here. If Avery is telling the truth and not just blowing smoke, then he just made life in that dressing room a whole lot harder for his buddies who talk to him.

I seriously doubt anyone, whether it's a Rangers beat writer, Torts or his family members, the water boy, or the fans on the outside looking in, really know what the players think of Torts.

It is obvious, however, there is something wrong in that room. You can't hide the body language, lack of passion on the ice, and the defeatist tone in their voices.
Hey! You're supposed to ignore that... Or blame everything on Gabby.

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04-01-2013, 07:53 AM
  #717
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Richards could have gone anywhere just a year ago and he chose to go to a team coached by Torts. I really, really doubt that in the past year he went from wanting to play for Torts' team specifically to having such huge problems with the guy that he's venting to Avery about him. Further, of all people, Richards has the least to complain about. The guy has looked like garbage all season and Torts has been feeding him top 6 minutes anyway.

Also, Avery caused problems in Dallas as well. He's not a symptom of this atmosphere, he's just a guy with a particularly odd attitude IMO.
Lets not be Pollyanna's here . Richards chose NY partially for Torts but also because
East coast travel schedule
Chartered jets and first class accomadqtions always
First class training facilities
Manhattan lifestyle with access to the best golf in the area in off season out East
Easy travel back home to PEI .
NYR overpaid to get him and basically bid against themselves .
So. , yes Torts is part of the equation but only a small part . Players come to NY to retire high on the hog
ESPO
DIONNE
HODGE
VADNAIS
LAFLEUR
LINDROS
FLEURY
DRURY THE LAIY GOES ON

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04-01-2013, 07:55 AM
  #718
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I think what's wrong in the room is that a bunch of mercs came in and replaced guys that have had a long history (juniors, minors, majors) with some of the core Ranger players. Staal, Girardi, Cally, Step, McD, Hank, DZ, Boyle all were close with Artie, Dubi, Prust. Rupp, Mitchell, Feds were all loyal to Torts.

You lose that friendship, and bond on the team, and replace it with mentally soft or mercurial players, then you not only have guys that aren't going to pull for each other, but also pack it in when the going gets tough. No extra effort at all, and as much as I like Torts, and think he's a great coach, these factors and Torts being Torts aren't going to equate to a fun time. Winning solves everything, but I think this year is the ideal year to make moves, shore up your cap for next year, and go all in.

I would say Torts and Richie are tied at the hip, and if either under perform next season, then buyouts and firings are likely.

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Old
04-01-2013, 08:15 AM
  #719
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Usually there are signs when a coach loses a room. The Red Sox are a prime example, and they loved Francona.

To the Rangers credit, the players havent shown their hand if they have soured on Torts

The 1994 Rangers hated keenan. The 1994-95 Yankees hated Showalter. Sometimes the talent overrides the bad attitudes.

The bottom line -- the players arent producing. Torts is a motivator. If he cant motivate the players to perform, then it all goes to hell in a handbasket because he isnt a tactician.

I dont think a single Rangers fan can blame this entirely on Torts or Sather. Dubinksy and AA were so inconsistent last year, I have a hard time believing their loss would cripple a 50-win team.

gaborik, Richards and the special teams. If gaborik and richards played like last year, you would think a top-15 offense would mean more leads, less pressure on Hank and more victories.

Maybe what -- 5 or 6 wins is the difference from a dominant Gaborik/Richards to the purtrid?

If thats the case, the Rangers would be somewhere around 22-9-3 and nobody would be complaining as much or wanting the head coach fired.

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Old
04-01-2013, 08:16 AM
  #720
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there has been no indication that ownership or Rangers upper management has “given the slightest thought” to making a change at head coach and firing John Tortorella.
People can move on now, he's not getting fired.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

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04-01-2013, 08:52 AM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
People can move on now, he's not getting fired.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers
Well, if there's a good team to rally against, it would be Winnipeg.

Of course, for quite a while in this league, a vote of confidence was usually the kiss of death.

I think things will be much more transparent after tonight. This game will be very, very telling, one way or another.

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:02 AM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Well, if there's a good team to rally against, it would be Winnipeg.

Of course, for quite a while in this league, a vote of confidence was usually the kiss of death.

I think things will be much more transparent after tonight. This game will be very, very telling, one way or another.
This is a symptom of what happens when the fanbase starts circling like sharks in the water.

Taking a piece of information, and shooting it off into outer space.

What vote of confidence? Larry Brooks writing in the NY Post?? Did I miss that direct quote from Sather or Gorton?

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:21 AM
  #723
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This is a symptom of what happens when the fanbase starts circling like sharks in the water.

Taking a piece of information, and shooting it off into outer space.

What vote of confidence? Larry Brooks writing in the NY Post?? Did I miss that direct quote from Sather or Gorton?
....ugh, Stephan in the post game and Callahan with his statement quoted in that article? Sounds like quite a vote of confidence from the players to me.

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04-01-2013, 09:37 AM
  #724
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People can move on now, he's not getting fired.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers
If the Rangers drop the next three games (hope not but...) then we will be hearing an entirely different melody. Guaranteed. Watch...the enraged villagers will come out en masse with pitchforks and Torches...and then Torts will be walking his dogs elsewhere


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04-01-2013, 09:41 AM
  #725
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He's not on the chopping block.

It's as simple as, he WILL get the benefit of the doubt after being a Jack Adams finalist, no training camp, shortened season& large roster turnover (no to mention the Stanley Cup ring).

We have until Xmas to debate it... But it won happen until close to then, if at all.

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