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Phoenix LXXIII: "This Space Available"

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Old
04-01-2013, 02:03 AM
  #751
OthmarAmmann
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Originally Posted by AllByDesign View Post
Hence the word "Geographical".

Enjoy your evening.
Human geography is one of the two major sub-fields of the discipline of geography. Human geography is a branch of the social sciences that studies the world, its people, communities and cultures with an emphasis on relations of and across space and place. Human geography differs from physical geography mainly in that it has a greater focus on studying human activities and is more receptive to qualitative research methodologies. As a discipline, human geography is particularly diverse with respect to its methods and theoretical approaches to study.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_geography

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04-01-2013, 02:20 AM
  #752
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Human geography differs from physical geography mainly in that it has a greater focus on studying human activities...
... Environmental determination. I wonder what Bill
"The Butcher" Cutting would make of the place today.


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04-01-2013, 02:23 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by metalfoot View Post
I don't want to be this cynical, but I doubt the NHL would be that kind, looking at their gameplan to this point. Chipman openly said that he was 20 minutes away from owning the Yotes a few years ago. That would have been 0 indication to fans.
Except that 20 minutes could just as well been 20 years since we all knew here in AZ that Glendale was going to put the money up.

And we all knew what would have happened had they not.

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04-01-2013, 03:35 AM
  #754
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i know ppl say that Ballys didnt play by the ruless but either way just goes to show that Bettman ego needs to be checked at the door and Hamilton should get a team because with new owners owning copps and running it show i could see them putting the money up within the next 3 yrs after the lease finishes with the canadiens and they move the team to Laval and the new owners who own copps and run it parent club runs the flyers of which i could see them getting a nhl team in Hamilton... If its not Phoenix then it will be what ever the weakest team is in 3 yrs time

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04-01-2013, 08:01 AM
  #755
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Except that 20 minutes could just as well been 20 years since we all knew here in AZ that Glendale was going to put the money up.

And we all knew what would have happened had they not.
...and we all know that the COG would never screw up an administrative or council action.

(But I agree that the COG's intention to put up the $25 million was never in doubt. In retrospect, maybe the NHL should have asked for $35 million, and then applied the extra towards lowering the sale price. I expect that the COG would have paid an even larger price at that point to keep the team).

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04-01-2013, 09:39 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
...and we all know that the COG would never screw up an administrative or council action.

(But I agree that the COG's intention to put up the $25 million was never in doubt. In retrospect, maybe the NHL should have asked for $35 million, and then applied the extra towards lowering the sale price. I expect that the COG would have paid an even larger price at that point to keep the team).
On the hotstove on the weekend, it was mentioned that the league and the PA were still odds on the 25 mil counting as HRR. I was under the impression, that was resolved already and it was agreed upon.

Not that the new council is likley to fork over another 20-25 mil for the 13/14 season. If it does count as HRR and the league is looking for Council to blink first, could they ask for 50 mil this spring since half would go to the PA?

It may the 'no' the league has been looking for, which the previous council would never do....from there, the moving trucks will be lined up!

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04-01-2013, 09:52 AM
  #757
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On the hotstove on the weekend, it was mentioned that the league and the PA were still odds on the 25 mil counting as HRR. I was under the impression, that was resolved already and it was agreed upon.

Not that the new council is likley to fork over another 20-25 mil for the 13/14 season. If it does count as HRR and the league is looking for Council to blink first, could they ask for 50 mil this spring since half would go to the PA?

It may the 'no' the league has been looking for, which the previous council would never do....from there, the moving trucks will be lined up!
I doubt that mayor and council in Glendale would even contemplate anything near $25 million. They will be looking for a reasonably long commitment, for a more modest arena management fee. The parameters need to be worked out with any potential owner. I expect that the NHL will develop some sort of agreement in principle to sell to a group (or perhaps 2), that will then have the opportunity to quickly work out a lease agreement with the COG. I think that the NHL will put a firm time limit on those negotiations, giving the full leverage to the potential ownership group(s). Then we'll see how far the COG is now willing to go to subsidize NHL hockey in Glendale. My sense is that they do not feel as financially free to do this as previously, and in any case, if they come up with a very lucrative subsidy, we might still see a legal challenge by the GWI (). My guess is that if the COG doesn't come up with a lucrative enough subsidy, or there is some hint of legal challenges, the NHL will move on and try not to take any of the blame.

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04-01-2013, 10:11 AM
  #758
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I doubt that mayor and council in Glendale would even contemplate anything near $25 million. They will be looking for a reasonably long commitment, for a more modest arena management fee. The parameters need to be worked out with any potential owner. I expect that the NHL will develop some sort of agreement in principle to sell to a group (or perhaps 2), that will then have the opportunity to quickly work out a lease agreement with the COG. I think that the NHL will put a firm time limit on those negotiations, giving the full leverage to the potential ownership group(s). Then we'll see how far the COG is now willing to go to subsidize NHL hockey in Glendale. My sense is that they do not feel as financially free to do this as previously, and in any case, if they come up with a very lucrative subsidy, we might still see a legal challenge by the GWI (). My guess is that if the COG doesn't come up with a lucrative enough subsidy, or there is some hint of legal challenges, the NHL will move on and try not to take any of the blame.
I agree fully! My gut feeling is that the NHL really does not any serious bidders left and is just looking the city to finally say they can't/won't to any/enough $$$ since any bidder is going to ask for such a rich deal. The NHL will 'we tried' and they gallop away northbound.

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04-01-2013, 10:15 AM
  #759
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I agree fully! My gut feeling is that the NHL really does not any serious bidders left and is just looking the city to finally say they can't/won't to any/enough $$$ since any bidder is going to ask for such a rich deal. The NHL will 'we tried' and they gallop away northbound.
.... and CoG is aware of it.

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04-01-2013, 10:36 AM
  #760
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The idea that the COG will put up one dime is preposterous! This time around they know that any money over $2.5MM (tax revenue receipts) is money down the crap hole! The AMF, assuming their is a competitive bidding process, will be a low margin agreement! They also know that any prospective owner is going to be faced with perhaps the worst team economics in the league. Consider, the cap next year will be in the low 60`s, assuming they sell every seat for every game (not likely) and charge an average of $10 more per seat ($45) the revenue will amount to a measly $32.2MM! With average team operating costs in the low $80MM range they need to find another $50MM to make up the difference! Think that is possible when there is high probability they will miss the Po`s this year and the coach will be looking for greener pastures along with a high % of their UFA`s! Don`t forget the location is NOT getting any closer to their preferred patrons. To those who think the COG will cave, need i say anything more than GWI!!!


Bottom line: only a group of morons would consider such an upside down business model a good thing! What we are being fed is the goofy propaganda that the league seems to turn a blind eye to! Had they, GB and his comrades in deceit, done one ounce of DD, the likes of IEH, MH, GJ and now the clown from CA would have been disqualified years ago! To own a hockey team, such as this one, an owner will require far more reserves and financial liquidity than most of his peers! losses will continue for many years into the future. To pay $70MM (vs. $170MM) for the right to lose this much money is too much-therefore calm down, these would be buyers being trotted out are nothing more than that. They will all be gone in a few weeks, so to the fans make the most of these last few home games, you are the ones who got screwed in this whole debacle!

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04-01-2013, 10:38 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
On the hotstove on the weekend, it was mentioned that the league and the PA were still odds on the 25 mil counting as HRR. I was under the impression, that was resolved already and it was agreed upon.
So was I, that that matter had been resolved back when the NHL&NHLPA were going over the accounting pursuant to moneys held in escrow just prior to the disbursements back in like March or April of last year. Maybe thats why the NHL still hasnt withdrawn the 2011/12 Arena Management Fee ($20M with $5M still owing?). Its a bone of contention. The PA claiming their entitled to 57% of it (Im assuming theyd apply the pre 2012/13 revised CBA HRR's). Thats certainly interesting. An adjunct but none the less, curious. If the NHL just leaves it in escrow & then assigns it to a buyer (if any one ever does step up to the plate) in some way then I guess they can argue more vociferously that the COG's AMF wasnt then nor ever subject to HRR's.

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I doubt that mayor and council in Glendale would even contemplate anything near $25 million. They will be looking for a reasonably long commitment, for a more modest arena management fee.
Ya, to go all-in yet again like that with another $25M commitment? Not a chance. Beacons' RFP sheets should be hitting the streets at some point this month, and as government of all shapes & sizes can & often do move at snails paces, could then take 45++ days before anythings returned from the private sector with respect to proposal absent the Coyotes. On a parallel track with these supposed 3 suitors, I read that both Pastor & Gosbee were expected to submit offers to the NHL this week so perhaps conceptually they have been working with Beacon, maybe a 15, 7 or even 5 year outline being put forth, if these guys are even "real", so who knows?... that Peladeau stepped back from Quebecor combined with the cryptic tweet posted up-page from someone in Quebec apparently in the know that booking agencies & promoters have received notices that the Colisee' wont be available from basically October through December 31st, well, Im thinkin the writing certainly appears to be on the wall.

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04-01-2013, 10:42 AM
  #762
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It really wasn't. But at least in that case it was a corporation, not the league itself.

The league owes a certain degree of courtesy to the Coyotes fans who have been shoveling their expendable income AND taxes into keeping this little venture afloat for the past 4 years. All it takes is an acknowledgment of what's going to happen, so that the various interested parties get an opportunity for closure. There's no need to be duplicitous at this point, given the amount of media that's circling the story.
Amen!!!

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04-01-2013, 11:03 AM
  #763
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Amen!!!
Its' hard to say, how the NHL would handle the teams departure from a PR standpoint & perspective in relation to specifically the fan base & community. Winnipeg knew what was coming back in 96, but Quebec & Atlanta, they certainly werent afforded any "closure" or send-off per se'. Not sure exactly what happened in Hartford in that regard however in that case & the others with the exception of the Thrashers somewhat ancient history. For the past 3 springs however, who could forget the photographs of fans sitting in thejob well past the final buzzer, be it playoff's or regular season, distraught, winsome, in some cases tears running down their faces. Heartbreaking. To see anyone like that. Absolutely angered me to no end when considering & contemplating what Glendales' done, provided, freely given to the NHL regardless of where one stands on the issues, the league itself doing absolutely next to nothing to facilitate a sale, build value & equity in the arena during their stewardship. Its really quite despicable, distasteful, their handling of this situation & file.

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04-01-2013, 11:37 AM
  #764
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just so I dont have to wade thru past posts ... did bettman say there would be an official announcement before the end of the season?

the closer this comes to what is quite likely the very end, the more i also feel really bad for yotes fans.

not even being able to say goodbye would be mean spirited.

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04-01-2013, 11:43 AM
  #765
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just so I dont have to wade thru past posts ... did bettman say there would be an official announcement before the end of the season?

the closer this comes to what is quite likely the very end, the more i also feel really bad for yotes fans.

not even being able to say goodbye would be mean spirited.
My understanding is Bettman/Daly haven't said really much of anything-I think there was a comment a while ago that could be construed/speculated that relocation MIGHT have to happen-but nothing definite.

I also understand it that Bettman doesn't even know of this Pastor offer, doesn't know who he is-so that's how seriously it seems the NHL is taking that particular offer.

I think right now we're all just waiting until end of reg season (if Yotes miss playoffs) to expect anything at all, don't expect much before then I don't think.

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04-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  #766
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To anyone defending GB in all of this, give it up! This dictatorial midget has played his hand in the desert so poorly it is laughable. Like you K I am completely irritated by his lack of sentiment for those who came from far and wide to support his disingenuous charade. Yet, in the end, he will disband this team in the dead of night, move on without even a thank you to the fans. He is as tone deaf to the fans as any commissioner in major league sports! Somehow, someway it is my hope that this deal comes back to bite him with his job being eliminated the result. This guy is as arrogant as they come, lets hope he finds out what that means when the chips go against him. How about a Nashville, TB SC!! Television audiences in the end of June should be non-existent!

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04-01-2013, 11:48 AM
  #767
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My understanding is Bettman/Daly haven't said really much of anything-I think there was a comment a while ago that could be construed/speculated that relocation MIGHT have to happen-but nothing definite.

I also understand it that Bettman doesn't even know of this Pastor offer, doesn't know who he is-so that's how seriously it seems the NHL is taking that particular offer.

I think right now we're all just waiting until end of reg season (if Yotes miss playoffs) to expect anything at all, don't expect much before then I don't think.
Their silence is all you need to know! They know full well what the outcome is going to be, yet they are such cowards they will never give the Coyote fans a chance to say goodbye!!!

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04-01-2013, 11:57 AM
  #768
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just so I dont have to wade thru past posts ... did bettman say there would be an official announcement before the end of the season?...the closer this comes to what is quite likely the very end, the more i also feel really bad for yotes fans.... not even being able to say goodbye would be mean spirited.
Not to my knowledge no. He's simply stuck to his talking points throughout this sordid mess that he's created for himself & the NHL. "Were still hopeful a deal can get done; obviously our patience is not infinite" yadda yadda yadda. A whole lotta nothin. Hasnt said a damn thing really. Thin gruel for the fan base, not even enough to feed a sparrow. Now I can appreciate that he doesnt want to appear as some merchant of false hope but excuse me, a little late on that score yes? Was not that Gary sitting next to Greg Jamison at Glendales Council Meeting last year? Daly telling Scruggs that the $25M would likely never have to be touched? I mean, the lights appear to be on yet no ones home with this guy. What part of "you have an unspoken covenant with your fans, paying customers & partners to be honest & upfront, to give them your best effort" doesnt he get? You enter the arena of Sports, Entertainment, you live by that credo be it 25 or 250,000 in the audience. He's just gotta stop with this Lawyering-Up Act. Show some real Leadership.

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04-01-2013, 12:03 PM
  #769
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Not to my knowledge no. He's simply stuck to his talking points throughout this sordid mess that he's created for himself & the NHL. "Were still hopeful a deal can get done; obviously our patience is not infinite" yadda yadda yadda. A whole lotta nothin. Hasnt said a damn thing really. Thin gruel for the fan base, not even enough to feed a sparrow. Now I can appreciate that he doesnt want to appear as some merchant of false hope but excuse me, a little late on that score yes? Was not that Gary sitting next to Greg Jamison at Glendales Council Meeting last year? Daly telling Scruggs that the $25M would likely never have to be touched? I mean, the lights appear to be on yet no ones home with this guy. What part of "you have an unspoken covenant with your fans, paying customers & partners to be honest & upfront, to give them your best effort" doesnt he get? You enter the arena of Sports, Entertainment, you live by that credo be it 25 or 250,000 in the audience. He's just gotta stop with this Lawyering-Up Act. Show some real Leadership.
You know, I think we need to put up a sticky post that is a collection of ALL the talking points that we hear again and again ("Two Weeks", "Imminent", "Hopeful a deal can get done", ect), and we'll number them! That way if this continues on, and someone wants to know what's up, we'll direct them to the sticky "Number 3 "Two weeks" is current talking point this week)

And Guelphstormer, I truly understand not wanting to wade through posts just to find a whole lotta nothing My idea for everyone saves time and is convienient!

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04-01-2013, 12:05 PM
  #770
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Not sure exactly what happened in Hartford in that regard
Hartford got a chance to say their goodbyes.


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04-01-2013, 12:22 PM
  #771
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Hartford got a chance to say their goodbyes.

So sad on so many levels... miss The Whale, seeing Chiasson again, and the last game was against the Bolts. One of those I remember exactly where I was moments in history.

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04-01-2013, 12:36 PM
  #772
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So sad on so many levels... miss The Whale, seeing Chiasson again, and the last game was against the Bolts. One of those I remember exactly where I was moments in history.
Ya wasnt it though, and I too miss the Whalers (wished they'd retained the Harpoon in their logo during their NHL days huh? Determined to be Politically Incorrect by people who wouldnt say $%# if there mouths were full of it I suppose... ). Not a "remember exactly where I was" moment for me, like say seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, JFK's, MLK & Bobby Kennedy Assassinations, Leafs Stanley Cup in 67, Kent State Riots, the Moonwalk, Summit 72 Series... big BIG gap in the memory cells thereafter M4B. Woke up sometime in the 80's with Bananarama. All 3 of em. Challenger Explosion....

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04-01-2013, 12:42 PM
  #773
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Ya wasnt it though, and I too miss the Whalers (wished they'd retained the Harpoon in their logo during their NHL days huh? Determined to be Politically Incorrect by people who wouldnt say $%# if there mouths were full of it I suppose... ). Not a "remember exactly where I was" moment for me, like say seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, JFK's, MLK & Bobby Kennedy Assassinations, Leafs Stanley Cup in 67, Kent State Riots, the Moonwalk, Summit 72 Series... big BIG gap in the memory cells thereafter M4B. Woke up sometime in the 80's with Bananarama. All 3 of em. Challenger Explosion....
I just figured it out! You're a POD PERSON!

Where's Donald Sutherland when you need him.....

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04-01-2013, 12:45 PM
  #774
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just so I dont have to wade thru past posts ... did bettman say there would be an official announcement before the end of the season?

the closer this comes to what is quite likely the very end, the more i also feel really bad for yotes fans.

not even being able to say goodbye would be mean spirited.
IIRC, Daly I think said something last week about there being some kind of announcement before the playoffs start.

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04-01-2013, 12:48 PM
  #775
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IIRC, Daly I think said something last week about there being some kind of announcement before the playoffs start.
The Yotes are within playoff distance, aren't they? I wonder if it depends on whether they make it or not. If they don't, then maybe MAYBE Daly says something, but if they make the playoffs they may not say anything.

I hadn't heard that myself about Daly-but it's possible.

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