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Old
08-15-2006, 02:47 PM
  #76
Le depisteur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
I'll tackle that quesiton. Well, first let me say that I obviously don't know anything, I'm just going to explain why the habs might have picked Maxwell before Carle even if they like Carle better. Maxwell was more highly rated than Carle was. If the habs were hoping to pick up both, like they eventually did, they would take the one they though more likely to be picked before they pick again first, regardless of which they like better.

I've heard reports that some of the habs brass thought Valentenko was a better prospect than most of the guys picked before him, and wanted to take him in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, but Gainey waited until later because he knew Valentenko would still be around in the later rounds.
I agree... good point!

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08-15-2006, 02:49 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
An opinion isn't just an opinion... It must be based on facts...
Er, what?

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Old
08-15-2006, 02:49 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
When you watched Maxwell, he was 17...
When you watched S.Kostitsyn, he was 18-19 and played with Shremp...

Just my opinion too...
Well anyone can have an opinion. I've been watching our prospects and writing about them for years, so I trust my opinion over someone I don't know at HF, not saying I'm always right cause I am not, I'm often wrong and I try to learn from that and go forward. As for Maxwell I will keep a close eye on him this year, hope he is a great player but it's the way he plays vs Kostitsyn that has me thinking Kostitsyn has higher upside as an opinion. But things change over time, players improve, progress, or have problems, thus opinions will change. Kostitsyn played with Schremp, but it's how he played the game not the points he put up.

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Old
08-15-2006, 02:56 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Well anyone can have an opinion. I've been watching our prospects and writing about them for years, so I trust my opinion over someone I don't know at HF, not saying I'm always right cause I am not, I'm often wrong and I try to learn from that and go forward. As for Maxwell I will keep a close eye on him this year, hope he is a great player but it's the way he plays vs Kostitsyn that has me thinking Kostitsyn has higher upside as an opinion. But things change over time, players improve, progress, or have problems, thus opinions will change. Kostitsyn played with Schremp, but it's how he played the game not the points he put up.
But he was older... it's a huge difference... no?

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Old
08-15-2006, 02:56 PM
  #80
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Good write-up Jay! Thank you for coming here to clarify you're ranking also.

It's still the middle of August so a lot can and will happen this year to the rankings.

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Old
08-15-2006, 02:57 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Rydified View Post
Er, what?
I think this because... There is some reasons, some facts... Do you understand???

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Old
08-15-2006, 03:02 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
But he was older... it's a huge difference... no?
Depends on how you value age vs estabishled performances. Yes Kostitsyn is a year further ahead in his development, but Kostitsyn was also a rookie playing far away from home and didn't speak English. You have to take all this into consideration plus many other things and that's how you form opinions. If you like Maxwell more then Kostitsyn, great, good for you, job well done on forming an opinion. The only problem I have is that I suggest you form it on your own based off how they play and how they improve upon their weaknesses and strengths. Forget where a player is drafted, it's just a number.

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Old
08-15-2006, 03:10 PM
  #83
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anyone that's played in the NHL should be a top 20 player on the list. not every prospect we draft ends up playing in the NHL, so this should a huge criterion when ranking our prospects.
so garth murray should either be graduated or on the list, while ferland and lapierre should have spots on the list as well.
As for the top 3, it's a dog fight between price, lats and kost. who is going to have the largest impact in the NHL? Based on the fact that kost has already played in the NHL (scoring a goal in his first 5 minutes), i think he should get the nod over the other two. Price and Lats have a lot of potential, but to be held in high regard...that potential has to be transferred into the NHL. For all we know, both price and lats (god forbid) can end up being total flops in the NHL. Where Kost has already shown proof that he belongs there...causing many fan and media members to demand his callup during team scoring slumps.

nonetheless, this ranking took a lot of hardwork...and i appreciate the effort. ranking a group of players based on predicting future performance is not the easiest thing to do.

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Old
08-15-2006, 03:15 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Depends on how you value age vs estabishled performances. Yes Kostitsyn is a year further ahead in his development, but Kostitsyn was also a rookie playing far away from home and didn't speak English. You have to take all this into consideration plus many other things and that's how you form opinions. If you like Maxwell more then Kostitsyn, great, good for you, job well done on forming an opinion. The only problem I have is that I suggest you form it on your own based off how they play and how they improve upon their weaknesses and strengths. Forget where a player is drafted, it's just a number.
Maxwell didn't perform well in 2006 playoffs? And at u18 tournament?

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08-15-2006, 03:17 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Depends on how you value age vs estabishled performances. Yes Kostitsyn is a year further ahead in his development, but Kostitsyn was also a rookie playing far away from home and didn't speak English. You have to take all this into consideration plus many other things and that's how you form opinions. If you like Maxwell more then Kostitsyn, great, good for you, job well done on forming an opinion. The only problem I have is that I suggest you form it on your own based off how they play and how they improve upon their weaknesses and strengths. Forget where a player is drafted, it's just a number.
My opinion is based on:

- Numbers and playing with...
- International Tournaments
- Experts (Red Line, McKeens, Montreal on hfboards, ...)

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08-15-2006, 03:57 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Maxwell didn't perform well in 2006 playoffs? And at u18 tournament?
Maxwell was good at the U-18's, didn't see him in the playoffs. Kostitsyn I did see several times and he was very good imo. In fact I'd say he was easily one of London's best performers. Not only was he putting up points, but it's the way he played that impressed me. It will be interesting to see what Maxwell does this year and I think it's great he had an invite to Team Canada, good chance of him making the '08 team.

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08-15-2006, 04:00 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
My opinion is based on:

- Numbers and playing with...
- International Tournaments
- Experts (Red Line, McKeens, Montreal on hfboards, ...)
The best way to evaluate prospects is by seeing them in action as much as possible, what is pretty tough to do for most of us... Still, not everyone has the scout's eye, some cant even evaluate our regulars properly after watching them 82 games per year...

Could it be possible that Grabovski be a steal in the 5th round and become a hell of player in the NHL? Is it possible that one of our first rounders will bust one day? (Since 2001, all our first rounders look great and no one is expected to bust but Fischer appears to be still very raw and nothing say at this point he wont flop, he will have to prove at higher level his first round selection.) Personally I like what I read about him until now though..

About Maxwell, still, he is very young and we have a couple of prospects that accomplished great things since drafted.. Kostitsyn and DaGostini for exemple could be real steals..

From some reports I read, White was one of the less skilled fowards at the last rookie camp...

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Old
08-15-2006, 04:19 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
The best way to evaluate prospects is by seeing them in action as much as possible, what is pretty tough to do for most of us... Still, not everyone has the scout's eye, some cant even evaluate our regulars properly after watching them 82 games per year...

Could it be possible that Grabovski be a steal in the 5th round and become a hell of player in the NHL? Is it possible that one of our first rounders will bust one day? (Since 2001, all our first rounders look great and no one is expected to bust but Fischer appears to be still very raw and nothing say at this point he wont flop, he will have to prove at higher level his first round selection.) Personally I like what I read about him until now though..

About Maxwell, still, he is very young and we have a couple of prospects that accomplished great things since drafted.. Kostitsyn and DaGostini for exemple could be real steals..

From some reports I read, White was one of the less skilled fowards at the last rookie camp...

But White was in the top 30 prospects in the Hockey News Draft coverage... Can we only base on the prospects camp? I really think that the prospect camp have really counted on several top 20 on this forum... Latendresse and D'Agostini was good, Maxwell and White not... despite the age...

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Old
08-15-2006, 06:37 PM
  #89
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Good report , i like the rankings overall.

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08-15-2006, 07:14 PM
  #90
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Great article, Jay! It's nice to read such well written articles. Same goes to Montreal for his stuff.

I think we can all agree that it doesnt really matter what the ranking is, the key point is that we've got a lot of excellent players comming up!

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Old
08-15-2006, 07:30 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Menard View Post
Since you've asked, I'll reply.

Listen, I take my writing very seriously. I've been in the journalism gig for over a decade (my resumé's on my Web site: http://www.menardcommunications.com), and I have a number of jobs both in the corporate world and in the media, so my integrity is all-important to me.

Obviously, I can't get to every game that every prospect plays (my wife would shoot me), but I try to catch as many as I can either live or on the tube. As well, I talk to a lot of insiders, scouts, management, and other journalists. I'm in fairly regular contact with people like Trevor Timmins, Don Lever, etc... From that research (plus a lot of reading) I formulate my opinion.

That opinion is then vetted by the other writers and editors of Hockey's Future. They're allowed to put their two cents in, especially in the case if they've seen a prospect more often than I have.

Then, as you've said, it's simply one person's opinion. But, I hope you'll agree, it's an informed opinion.

It's not an easy list to put together because everyone has their favourites -- even those of us who are supposed to be unbiased. But I think it's accurate. I debated long and hard about bumping Latendresse to the top, but the fact of the matter is that I've heard a lot, both on and off the record, about how this kids is turning into a monster. He's dominating the competition he's in. Kostitsyn, the elder, is too mercurial. I'm not 100% sold on Price until I see what he can do on an adequate team. And Chipchura, while I love his leadership and grit, doesn't have the skill set that either Latendresse or Kostitsyn have.

In fact, if talent was all it took, Locke would still be on this list, but there's a lot to go in it.

Secondly, positioning is a factor. I was leery about putting Fischer at 7, but the fact is that defence is a need for the Habs, which puts a premium on his services. Power forward is too, which makes Latendresse all the more attractive of a prospect. To whit, Halak could probably be in the top 5 in the Toronto list I just completed, but due to the fact that he's behind both Price and Danis, he's less of an attractive prospect for the Habs -- and then think of what that does to Heino-Lindberg.

There you have it. I do the best I can with what I have. I hope you enjoy the writing, I hope you appreciate the effort. What you do with the information is up to you. You can agree, you can disagree, you can think I'm a monkey sidling up to a keyboard for all I care.

And, as those of you who have taken the chance to write to me know, I'll always write back. I appreciate the time you take in reading and responding to my work, so it's the least I can do to repay your investment.

All the best,

Jay

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. And it is not that I am doubting your list at all. On the contrary, I think understanding your background helps us appreciate the list even more.

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Old
08-15-2006, 07:39 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Maxwell was good at the U-18's, didn't see him in the playoffs. Kostitsyn I did see several times and he was very good imo. In fact I'd say he was easily one of London's best performers. Not only was he putting up points, but it's the way he played that impressed me. It will be interesting to see what Maxwell does this year and I think it's great he had an invite to Team Canada, good chance of him making the '08 team.
Maxwell U18 stats. He was the best player...
http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournament...AN_83_1_0.html

Maxwell playoff stats. He was the best player...
http://whl.ca/stats/statdisplay.php?...&singleSeason=

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Old
08-15-2006, 07:41 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Why do a list only based on opinion, and not considering the expert??? Chouinard was a very good propsect, but he was ONLY a prospect... The list should be the market value of our prospects, because it's the real thing...

Maxwell has a better value than Heino-Lindberg, it's a simple fact... I'm so sorry for you...
How many of those guys have you seen play and in how many games? I've been reading your stuff...and I find some of the reasonings pretty weird.

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Old
08-15-2006, 07:43 PM
  #94
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Thanks Jay really like the article.

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Old
08-15-2006, 07:45 PM
  #95
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How can Locke be that low!

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Old
08-15-2006, 07:45 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
How many of those guys have you seen play and in how many games? I've been reading your stuff...and I find some of the reasonings pretty weird.
We aren't scouts, only readers... And according to them, it's the actual statement.

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Old
08-15-2006, 07:45 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Maxwell U18 stats. He was the best player...
http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournament...AN_83_1_0.html

Maxwell playoff stats. He was the best player...
http://whl.ca/stats/statdisplay.php?...&singleSeason=
I can give you stats showing Dagenais was the best player.

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08-15-2006, 07:47 PM
  #98
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How can Locke be that low!
Because he's simply an AHLer... Too small, not speedy, not strong...

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Old
08-15-2006, 07:47 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
I can give you stats showing Dagenais was the best player.
Come on! At the same age... Shoot me that...

Maxwell was 17 all the year with 19-20 years old players...


Last edited by Le depisteur: 08-15-2006 at 07:53 PM.
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Old
08-15-2006, 07:49 PM
  #100
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I can give you stats showing Dagenais was the best player.
Are you able to analyse stats, man???????????????????????????

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