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David Desharnais - Black or White Edition

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Old
04-01-2013, 06:36 AM
  #401
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This baby is obviously sheltered by his mother. What a shame. TRADE HIM!!

Can he fight?

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04-01-2013, 07:34 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Dd gets as much unwarranted praise as criticism, more so in my opinion.

For example, last year there were endless posts praising DD for having the 14th highest number of points for NHL centers, a decontextualized stat that falsely implies DD was a top 15 center.

Many assumed he was better than Plekanec offensively, and there were comparisons made to Martin st-louis.

DD has also been praised for dominating the ECHL at age 22 ("he has dominated wherever he has played"), when in fact this is a non-argument, as there are about 10 centers in our division alone why would break 100 points in the ECHL if they actually played there at age 22. Dd also dominated the AHL at age 24 - i am afraid to think of what Eller would produce in the AHL if he played there this year.

Some people actually posted that Erik Cole had a career season because of DD's vision and playmaking. Ummm, no. Erik Cole spent a decade playing with Eric Staal, a superior player.

There have also been people; the same people i think, who say Pacioretty emerged last year because of DD's vision - the same Pacioretty who had 29 points in 37 games with Gomez the previous season, against tougher opposition even.
ECHL MVP and leading your team to the championship, 22 or not, is a success. Sure, the 10 centers in our division may have done it (they might not have either).

The last two points, were usually made as a rebuttal to people saying Desharnais sucks and only was good because of those two.

Same way, no matter what, Desharnais was bashed last year for playing poor offensive competition, yet you rarely ever heard that said about Pacioretty or Cole.

Desharnais, is just like Price here. Fans at both extremes of the spectrum, when in fact, the result is closer to the middle.

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04-01-2013, 07:53 AM
  #403
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It's half his post.

The first half goes on about unfair and irrational DD bashing and the second half is an insane and irrational defense.

Black and white, indeed.
Well, you're possibly right.

I should take a look at the posts on Gomez

This said, I clearly remember a few users saying that Gomez should get more IT and more PPIT, possibly at the expense of Desharnais, in order to give him back some confidence.

Maybe it'S only THAT kind of post I had in mind...

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04-01-2013, 08:08 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Usually, in a normal fanbase, every player of every team gets unwarranted praise. It's normal. We are fans. We love our players and we often see them bigger than they really are. That DD finished 20th in points among centers in the NHL is still an exploit, considering he's not a top 20 center in this league. He deserves a lot of credit for that. In the last 15 years, only 3 other Habs centers finished in the top 20 (Plekanec, Koivu and Ribeiro, all very good players). So it's normal that it gets fans excited.

Unwarranted praise is normal. But unwarranted criticism? For stuggling, overpaid players, yes. David Desharnais, when we consider expectations and salary, is neither of these 2. He's just a player coming out of nowhere who, because of hard work, has built for himself an important role on our team. He did that despite the genetics working against him, despite the scouts not seeing anything in him, despite a portion of the fanbase not willing to give him a chance at all, etc.

How can a guy like that get any unwarranted criticism from its own fanbase??? This is something I'll never understand.
I agree with this post for 90% of it. DD has definitely had the deck stacked against over his career and through hard-work, determination and outstanding hockey sense has found a way to most definitely be a net positive on a contending club. I love DD and what he has gone through. I think some are excessive on the size issue tbh, I want size too, but not any player with size will do. I'd rather a small skilled guy who can produce than a big guy who doesn't.

The last part of your post is where I think we may disagree, I'm not sure if you were insinuating that the hate comes from the fact that he is francophone, I certainly hope not. There may be a few posters who think the only reason DD was re-signed is because he's a francophone, but they are a huge minority imo.

Most of the irrational dislike for DD comes from his stature, he's not 6 feet tall and he's not 200lbs. Hopefully we stick to the model of drafting players who are good at playing hockey and don't become obsessive with size as the main focus. You need some size, but not at the cost of being a good hockey player.


Last edited by overlords: 04-01-2013 at 07:30 PM.
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04-01-2013, 08:46 AM
  #405
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I agree with this post for 90% of it. DD has definitely had the deck stacked against over his career and through hard-work, determination and outstanding hockey sense has found a way to most definitely be a net positive on a contending club. I love DD and what he has gone through. I think some are excessive on the size issue tbh, I want size too, but not any player with size will do. I'd rather a small skilled guy who can produce than a big guy who doesn't.

The last part of your post is where I think we may disagree, I'm not sure if you were insinuating that the hate comes from the fact that he is francophone, I certainly hope not. There may be a few posters who think the only reason DD was re-signed is because he's a francophone, but they are a huge minority imo.

Most of the irrational dislike for DD comes from his stature, he's not 6 feet tall and he's not 200lbs. Hopefully we stick to the model of drafting players who are good at playing hockey and don't become obsessive with size as the main focus. You need some size, but not at the cost of being a good hockey player.

It's not an obsession about size.
99% of the players in the NHL are bigger than him
In that 99% there's a lot a of better or as good player as DD is
Can we please get one of them?

I always thought that if a player is on the team for only one aspect of the game (In DD's case, the offensive)......he should be one of the best in the game or at least on that team....simply not the case right now.

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04-01-2013, 10:12 AM
  #406
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There's a lot of tension on this thread so I want everyone to remember our current standing in the Eastern Conference vs last year's.

I also want everyone to take a moment to relax and to enjoy this video of a newborn baby deer.

habs board is more like this

"hey look, we finally have quality center depth"







MAKE IT STOP!!!

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04-01-2013, 10:41 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
ECHL MVP and leading your team to the championship, 22 or not, is a success. Sure, the 10 centers in our division may have done it (they might not have either).

The last two points, were usually made as a rebuttal to people saying Desharnais sucks and only was good because of those two.

Same way, no matter what, Desharnais was bashed last year for playing poor offensive competition, yet you rarely ever heard that said about Pacioretty or Cole.

Desharnais, is just like Price here. Fans at both extremes of the spectrum, when in fact, the result is closer to the middle.
Err, what?

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Old
04-01-2013, 11:56 AM
  #408
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Bergevin working hard to insulate Desharnais.

With the pickup of Halpern to insulate DD on defensive zone face-offs. I believe that Bergevin is following up on his 'insulating DD strategy' by looking for a big physical winger who can help DD with his fore-checking and defensive back-checking.

Someone like Clowe on the wing to battle along the boards on the fore-check and down-low. This would allow DD to do what he does best, which is receive the puck in open spaces and pass it to someone with scoring ability.

I

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04-01-2013, 12:01 PM
  #409
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With the pickup of Halpern to insulate DD on defensive zone face-offs. I believe that Bergevin is following up on his 'insulating DD strategy' by looking for a big physical winger who can help DD with his fore-checking and defensive back-checking.

Someone like Clowe on the wing to battle along the boards on the fore-check and down-low. This would allow DD to do what he does best, which is receive the puck in open spaces and pass it to someone with scoring ability.

I
I'm pretty sure we got Halpern because the whole team is average on faceoffs. Having Halpern take important faceoffs helps Eller and others as well who are less than dominant.

Don't know about Clowe, when Bourque comes back we already have 10 top 9 forwards without counting moen. I'd rather a Regehr or something if the price is right. It's unrelated to DD and our forward group but just a preference.


Last edited by LyricalLyricist: 04-01-2013 at 12:18 PM.
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04-01-2013, 02:13 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I'm pretty sure we got Halpern because the whole team is average on faceoffs. Having Halpern take important faceoffs helps Eller and others as well who are less than dominant.

Don't know about Clowe, when Bourque comes back we already have 10 top 9 forwards without counting moen. I'd rather a Regehr or something if the price is right. It's unrelated to DD and our forward group but just a preference.
Actually getting a big physical shut-down D is part three of Bergevin's 'insulate DD strategy'. Someone to put on the ice to counteract DD's lack of physical play in the defensive zone.

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04-01-2013, 02:13 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
With the pickup of Halpern to insulate DD on defensive zone face-offs. I believe that Bergevin is following up on his 'insulating DD strategy' by looking for a big physical winger who can help DD with his fore-checking and defensive back-checking.

Someone like Clowe on the wing to battle along the boards on the fore-check and down-low. This would allow DD to do what he does best, which is receive the puck in open spaces and pass it to someone with scoring ability.

I
In 29 cities + 22/23 cases in Montreal, that is shrewd bench management.

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Old
04-01-2013, 02:14 PM
  #412
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Actually getting a big physical shut-down D is part three of Bergevin's 'insulate DD strategy'. Someone to put on the ice to counteract DD's lack of physical play in the defensive zone.
So that player will be prevented from playing on the Penalty Killing?

Next move -- hire goaltending help for Hamilton next season, due to Desharnais's relative weaknesses in the Montreal Canadiens defensive zone.

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04-01-2013, 02:43 PM
  #413
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So that player will be prevented from playing on the Penalty Killing?

Next move -- hire goaltending help for Hamilton next season, due to Desharnais's relative weaknesses in the Montreal Canadiens defensive zone.
Bergevin is already on this... hence the Tokarski goalie move. With the quality chances allowed with DD on the ice, expect both Price and Budaj to be shell shocked and burnt out in short order.

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04-01-2013, 02:46 PM
  #414
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Bergevin is already on this... hence the Tokarski goalie move. With the quality chances allowed with DD on the ice, expect both Price and Budaj to be shell shocked and burnt out in short order.
... I don't know what to say about this. I mean, I tried REALLY HARD to come up with something REALLY stupid.

I never resorted to this in the DD thread, but I have no choice : you really hate him because he's a French guy, because there's no rational explanation for the pure nonsense that you've just written.

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04-01-2013, 03:05 PM
  #415
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... I don't know what to say about this. I mean, I tried REALLY HARD to come up with something REALLY stupid.

I never resorted to this in the DD thread, but I have no choice : you really hate him because he's a French guy, because there's no rational explanation for the pure nonsense that you've just written.
Responding to garbage with more garbage just gives us all a great big mountain of garbage.

I think everyone needs to cool down with the gross exaggerations, the hyperbole is getting out of hand for certain posters.

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04-01-2013, 03:07 PM
  #416
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Responding to garbage with more garbage just gives us all a great big mountain of garbage.
Yup, I've been on the entire time and when I saw his first reply to me, I switched thread.

Anyway, back on topic. Galchenyuk or Eller, who should get DD's PP spot?

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04-01-2013, 03:09 PM
  #417
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Yup, I've been on the entire time and when I saw his first reply to me, I switched thread.

Anyway, back on topic. Galchenyuk or Eller, who should get DD's PP spot?
Eller and Galch should take DD's and Pac's spot on the PP.

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04-01-2013, 03:10 PM
  #418
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Eller and Galch should take DD's and Pac's spot on the PP.
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher?

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04-01-2013, 03:13 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Yup, I've been on the entire time and when I saw his first reply to me, I switched thread.

Anyway, back on topic. Galchenyuk or Eller, who should get DD's PP spot?
It might be a good idea to experiment with Galchenyuk there at this point to bust his slump before the playoffs begin.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Galchenyuk play with Desharnais on the exploitation line in general, to move the equally slumping Pacioretty to a line where he might get more involved. I'd like to see Pacioretty with Plekanec.

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Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher?
Pacioretty-Plekanec-Ryder
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

Boom.

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04-01-2013, 03:17 PM
  #420
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Responding to garbage with more garbage just gives us all a great big mountain of garbage.

I think everyone needs to cool down with the gross exaggerations, the hyperbole is getting out of hand for certain posters.
Sorry, but my so-called garbage wasn't garbage, considering the garbagesque value of the initial garbage. And you know that.

Besides, I'm on ONLY ONE who's been singled out lately (first, the slightly comical Gomez comparison, and second, this time, when trying to come up with a rational motive -- and, let's face it, the only possibility -- for the nonsense that was actually uttered without ANY kind of provocation).

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04-01-2013, 03:17 PM
  #421
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It might be a good idea to experiment with Galchenyuk there at this point to bust his slump before the playoffs begin.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Galchenyuk play with Desharnais on the exploitation line in general, to move the equally slumping Pacioretty to a line where he might get more involved. I'd like to see Pacioretty with Plekanec.



Pacioretty-Plekanec-Ryder
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

Boom.
Doesn't hurt to try but Gionta is one of the top forwards in PPG(for us I mean). Without Gionta I'd prob prefer this:

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Ryder
Pacioretty-Eller-Gallagher

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04-01-2013, 03:19 PM
  #422
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Sorry, but my so-called garbage wasn't garbage, considering the garbagesque value of the initial garbage. And you know that.

Besides, I'm on ONLY ONE who's been singled out lately (first, the slightly comical Gomez comparison, and second, this time, when trying to come up with a rational motive -- and, let's face it, the only possibility -- for the nonsense that was actually uttered without ANY kind of provocation).
The warning wasn't directed at you btw, but don't take this thread down that route again, it only leads to stupidity.

There's plenty of reasons DD is singled out, irrationally and rationally. Have you seen the things said about Gionta around here?

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04-01-2013, 03:20 PM
  #423
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Yup, I've been on the entire time and when I saw his first reply to me, I switched thread.

Anyway, back on topic. Galchenyuk or Eller, who should get DD's PP spot?
Galch, for the reason explained by Et le But, below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
It might be a good idea to experiment with Galchenyuk there at this point to bust his slump before the playoffs begin.


Pacioretty-Plekanec-Ryder
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

Boom.
One thing with those lines, though.

Taking DD out of the PP for general poor performance on the PP doesn't make much sense if Pacioretty remains on the PP. Not that I advocate taking Pacioretty out of the PP -- if anything, DD himself should be tried there, especially if there's some kind of plan to move him at wing in the medium term.

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04-01-2013, 03:22 PM
  #424
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Galch, for the reason explained by Et le But, below.



One thing with those lines, though.

Taking DD out of the PP for general poor performance on the PP doesn't make much sense if Pacioretty remains on the PP. Not that I advocate taking Pacioretty out of the PP -- if anything, DD himself should be tried there, especially if there's some kind of plan to move him at wing in the medium term.
IMO, it's just to keep them in the zone. I would not single out DD from PP for an extended period of time. He's a point producer so you don't want to kill his confidence heading into playoffs but for a little tweak to suggest his place isn't safe? No problem.

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04-01-2013, 03:24 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Usually, in a normal fanbase, every player of every team gets unwarranted praise. It's normal. We are fans. We love our players and we often see them bigger than they really are. That DD finished 20th in points among centers in the NHL is still an exploit, considering he's not a top 20 center in this league. He deserves a lot of credit for that. In the last 15 years, only 3 other Habs centers finished in the top 20 (Plekanec, Koivu and Ribeiro, all very good players). So it's normal that it gets fans excited.

Unwarranted praise is normal. But unwarranted criticism? For stuggling, overpaid players, yes. David Desharnais, when we consider expectations and salary, is neither of these 2. He's just a player coming out of nowhere who, because of hard work, has built for himself an important role on our team. He did that despite the genetics working against him, despite the scouts not seeing anything in him, despite a portion of the fanbase not willing to give him a chance at all, etc.

How can a guy like that get any unwarranted criticism from its own fanbase??? This is something I'll never understand.
Desharnais is affected by the key reason Gionta gets no love and deemed expendable despite in the 3 seasons + 2 playoffs excluding 11/12 where he was hampered by injuries:
203 games
79 goals
131 points

This production over 82 games:
82 games
32 goals
53 points

The Habs/Smurf stereotype affects more people than they want to admit. Having 2 of the 7 smallest players (3 of the 13 smallest players) affects peoples opinion.


Last edited by overlords: 04-01-2013 at 07:31 PM.
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