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Old
08-15-2006, 06:52 PM
  #101
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I't s hard to understand why there is so little love for Maxwell...I really think this guy is the steal of 2006 draft...He had a so so year and he managed to put decent numbers...He was the 2nd choice overall at WHL draft...He won the skills competition at the CHL prospect game...He was one the best player at U-18...I think the Habs management was very surprised to see him drop that far in this year draft...You can mark my words....He'll be in the WHL top 5 scorer and will have big chance to make team canada at WJC this year...

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08-15-2006, 06:53 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Come on! At the same age... Shot me that...

Maxwell was 17 all the year with 19-20 years old players...
Dagenais at 17, 43 goal, 1st with 68pts hahahaha
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...010271996.html

Anyway, Maxwell doesnt play like dagenais and is a more complete player so you cant compare both.

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08-15-2006, 06:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Are you able to analyse stats, man???????????????????????????
I'm just saying stats dont paint the big picture. Your arguing with guys that have seen most of these players play. I cant argue with any of them because all I have are stats and scouting reports writen before the draft.

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08-15-2006, 07:02 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weis View Post
Dagenais at 17, 43 goal, 1st with 68pts hahahaha
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...010271996.html

Anyway, Maxwell doesnt play like dagenais and is a more complete player so you cant compare both.
Interesting stat... But there's more goals in QMJHL and Dagenais was already tall...

Maxwell is the speedest canadian player in the last draft and won the puck control competition. The others who won it:

Jeff Carter
Jason Williams
Simon Gagné (2e)
Carlo Colaiacovo
Scott Hartnell
Wojtek Wolski

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08-15-2006, 07:03 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
I'm just saying stats dont paint the big picture. Your arguing with guys that have seen most of these players play. I cant argue with any of them because all I have are stats and scouting reports writen before the draft.
They only seen some players... And are biased by that... Analyzing stats talks very often...

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08-15-2006, 07:04 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Komi#1 View Post
He was the 2nd choice overall at WHL draft...
Who was the first???

Jonathan Toews

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08-15-2006, 07:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Because he's simply an AHLer... Too small, not speedy, not strong...
So what Ribeiro do in the NHL then ?


PS : I HATE FLASH GAME SNAKE. IT RUINS MY LIFE. I HATE IT.

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08-15-2006, 07:30 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by KaptainKourage View Post
So what Ribeiro do in the NHL then ?


PS : I HATE FLASH GAME SNAKE. IT RUINS MY LIFE. I HATE IT.
Ribeiro was very better and taller than Locke at same age...

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08-15-2006, 08:01 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Ribeiro was very better and taller than Locke at same age...
Ribeiro was about the same level..

Until now, Ribeiro still not proved to be a quality NHLer.. He has been lucky to top a such mediocre bunch of prospects with Chouinard, Ward and the rest.. He wouldnt even crack our top 20 prospects if he was about 20 years old right now..

Plekanec is already a way better NHLer.

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08-15-2006, 08:04 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
He wouldnt even crack our top 20 prospects if he was about 20 years old right now..


You're always good for a laugh NHA

So, we should expect all our top 20 prospects to have a bigger impact than a guy who lead the team in points?

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08-15-2006, 08:34 PM
  #112
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I known all of this, i just very surprised to see there is no love for Maxwell... All Red Line, THN, McKeen's and TSN were really high on him 2 months ago... And since the prospect camp, Maxwell dropped radically on this forum...

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08-15-2006, 08:41 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
I known all of this, i just very surprised to see there is no love for Maxwell... All Red Line, THN, McKeen's and TSN were really high on him 2 months ago... And since the prospect camp, Maxwell dropped radically on this forum...
Personally I like the skilled game he plays along with the speed/skating but I would rank him lower for now until I see him get more involved physically, play more in traffic. It has really hurt Milroy at the AHL level and he was one of the top scorers coming out of the dub. Stats can be very misleading both good and bad. I really don't know how else to say it.

The best advice I can give is to watch the prospects whenever you can, don't pay much attention to how others rank them, and enjoy the upcoming hockey season!

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Old
08-15-2006, 08:44 PM
  #114
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Also, just for fun, do you know Maxwell's brother is 6'8"!!! It's one of the reason why Timmins is really high on him...

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08-15-2006, 11:22 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT View Post


You're always good for a laugh NHA

So, we should expect all our top 20 prospects to have a bigger impact than a guy who lead the team in points?
What Im saying is that Ribeiro had the chance to make the team and play several games at the NHL level even if he was clearly looking out of place in the first few years with the Habs... You have to remember how much mediocre was our NHL team while our prospects depth was even worst... Ribs had plenty of time to adjust to the NHL level and try to make a place for himself in the line-up. few prospects will have that chance one day... For example, a guy like Hudler would be in the NHL right now if he wasnt a wings prospect...

Perreault has already been our best points leader, Savage has already led our team in scoring, some people thought Dagenais would score 30-40 goals after his lucky season, some people thought Zednik was a top scoring winger... You have to take in consideration that when a player is used in a scoring role with ton of PP time, its nothing surprising to see this player reach some impressive stats, but the reality is not on the scoresheet but elsewhere... To have a real and accurate idea about what a player really bring to the table, you have to know your hockey and be able to identify what his strengths and weakness are... The first thing and the most important one, you have to determine if that player has what it takes to compete at a high level... What about his hockey sense? Does he cheat or he plays a honest 2-way game? What about his work ethic? Can he skate in this league? Is he strong enough to keep control of the puck or is he easily outmatched?

Then come the skills criterias..

Thats the way you determine the real efficiency... Take guys like Crosby and Ovechkin, they are not only amazingly skilled, they are competors born playing the game with a high level of intensity, playing with grit and fire both ways of the ice, they wanna win so much first and one, thats what make them special players while guys like Spezza, Yashin, Kovalchuk, Zherdev give a good show but wont make your team win at the end...

It was obvious Dagenais couldnt survive in this league... He is not only slow like no one, he is soft, poor to protect the puck despite his big frame, poor overall agility, poor mobility, poor hands (forget the trick ala Datzuk on shotout, he probably practiced it thousand of times), poor vision, poor passer... He had a hell of a shot and a nose for the net but it was so evident this guy was a filler...

Skills talking, Ribs has great hands, great vision but its all about playmaking skills, the guy has no shot...

His major lack of speed and lack of strength makes it pretty tough to compete at a high level, the guy has to work harder than anyone to remain as competitive as possible even strength and most nights he just cant keep it up every shifts.. Some think its all about effort, but I remember Ribeiro wanting hard on the ice, I even remember him giving some bodycheck ala Bégin... But the reality is the fact he is so easily outmatched physically, the reality is that he isnt powerful enough on skates to catch up smoother skaters...

Now you will understand better my reasoning.. Im not saying most fowards on our top prospects list will reach the number Ribeiro reached 2 seasons ago... For the simple reason they might not even given the opportunity to play on top lines in the NHL, even less with 2 stars like Kovalev and Samsonov! One thing sure, try Plekanec with Samsonov and Kovalev for fun, I bet you anything you wont want Ribs there again! So we could have some Plekanec like prospects in the system with guys like Maxwell, Mikus... All are much more complete players Ribs was at the same age.. Note that the CHL is much more competitive than it was 10 years ago.. Some older guys could have had alot more trouble than they had back at their junior time.

Personally I think we have several future quality NHLers in our top 20, but some will play elsewhere of course..


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08-16-2006, 12:10 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
What Im saying is that Ribeiro had the chance to make the team and play several games at the NHL level even if he was clearly looking out of place in the first few years with the Habs... You have to remember how much mediocre was our NHL team while our prospects depth was even worst... Ribs had plenty of time to adjust to the NHL level and try to make a place for himself in the line-up. few prospects will have that chance one day... For example, a guy like Hudler would be in the NHL right now if he wasnt a wings prospect...
I wouldn't bet too much on that. Sure it could happend but Hudler is more of a hit or miss, IMO. He could become Gionta or he could stay in the AHL for the rest of his life.

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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Perreault has already been our best points leader, Savage has already led our team in scoring, some people thought Dagenais would score 30-40 goals after his lucky season, some people thought Zednik was a top scoring winger... You have to take in consideration that when a player is used in a scoring role with ton of PP time, its nothing surprising to see this player reach some impressive stats, but the reality is not on the scoresheet but elsewhere... To have a real and accurate idea about what a player really bring to the table, you have to know your hockey and be able to identify what his strengths and weakness are... The first thing and the most important one, you have to determine if that player has what it takes to compete at a high level... What about his hockey sense? Does he cheat or he plays a honest 2-way game? What about his work ethic? Can he skate in this league? Is he strong enough to keep control of the puck or is he easily outmatched?
I think that Zednik gave some good years to the Habs. He was a great warrior to have on your side at some point. Things change, what can we do.

BTW, some players have lived off the PP, (Allison comes to mind). But PP time does not absolutly mean getting impressive stats; good PP players get good PP stats and it also depends of what your role is on the PP. A good exemple is Kubina. His role with TB was to be the 1st man back in the event DB got caught. He was on the wrong side of the plays and thus did not get as many points as he can get.

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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Then come the skills criterias..

Thats the way you determine the real efficiency... Take guys like Crosby and Ovechkin, they are not only amazingly skilled, they are competors born playing the game with a high level of intensity, playing with grit and fire both ways of the ice, they wanna win so much first and one, thats what make them special players while guys like Spezza, Yashin, Kovalchuk, Zherdev give a good show but wont make your team win in at the end...
Not sure why you are naming a bunch of stars and superstars. These are elite players and they will all be paid a lot of $ in the future. I don't think the Habs have a player that can be compared to these guys except Kovalev and even he does not look too good against most of them. Also, most of these are still kids... you need to give them some time before calling them out like that.

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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
It was obvious Dagenais couldnt survive in this league... He is not only slow like no one, he is soft, poor to protect the puck despite his big frame, poor overall agility, poor mobility, poor hands (forget the trick ala Datzuk on shotout, he probably practiced it thousand of times), poor vision, poor passer... He had a hell of a shot and a nose for the net but it was so evident this guy was a filler...
Dagenais has one thing, soft hands. If he only had something else, he could play some type of role in the NHL.

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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Skills talking, Ribs has great hands, great vision but its all about playmaking skills, the guy has no shot...
Put him on the same line as Rich Nash and watch them produce...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
His major lack of speed and lack of strength makes it pretty tough to compete at a high level, the guy has to work harder than anyone to remain as competitive as possible even strength and most nights he just cant keep it up every shifts.. Some think its all about effort, but I remember Ribeiro wanting hard on the ice, I even remember him giving some bodycheck ala Bégin... But the reality is the fact he is so easily outmatched physically, the reality is that he isnt powerful enough on skates to catch up smoother skaters...
I agree. I still think he can produce if he has the right players on his line. He needs some fast players with soft hands that want the net. Not sure Samsonov and Kovalev fit that but they have lots of talent, who knows if it will click.

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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Now you will understand better my reasoning.. Im not saying most fowards on our top prospects list will reach the number Ribeiro reached 2 seasons ago... For the simple reason they might not even given the opportunity to play on top lines in the NHL, even less with 2 stars like Kovalev and Samsonov! One thing sure, try Plekanec with Samsonov and Kovalev for fun, I bet you anything you wont want Ribs there again!
Maybe but I'm not sold on Pleks as a 2nd line center yet. I think he was doing a great job on his line in the playoffs. Its another thing to lead the team on the top lines having the opposition prepare themselves against you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
So we could have some Plekanec like prospects in the system with guys like Maxwell, Mikus... All are much more complete players Ribs was at the same age.. Note that the CHL is much more competitive than it was 10 years ago.. Some older guys could have had alot more trouble than they had back at their junior time.
I get your point but none of these players have proven they can take it to the NHL level and that they can do it for a full season.

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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Personally I think we have several future quality NHLers in our top 20, but some will play elsewhere of course..
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
He wouldnt even crack our top 20 prospects if he was about 20 years old right now..
I don't get how you can be sure the 20 prospects will be better then a 65 pts guy.


Last edited by NORiculous: 08-16-2006 at 12:17 AM.
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Old
08-16-2006, 12:32 AM
  #117
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OMG, stop bashing Rib's... Yeah he don't play well each game, but damn, he lead the team with 65 points, made 51 that year, how you can say that a prospect rank 20 on the team gonna be better then him ?

You say isnt a NHL caliber hockey player, isnt even more an AHL player. Just wait that season if he play with Samsonov and Kovalev, after that we gonna see if he still suck a lot, who adjust his play with those Russian.

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08-16-2006, 02:27 AM
  #118
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I wouldn't bet too much on that. Sure it could happend but Hudler is more of a hit or miss, IMO. He could become Gionta or he could stay in the AHL for the rest of his life.

Some prospects will play in the NHL later than others cause the stronger line-up they have to crack at their position.. That was my point.

I think that Zednik gave some good years to the Habs. He was a great warrior to have on your side at some point. Things change, what can we do.

Agree but he has never been highly skilled, was a great player to have on your team when led by his work ethic, but when he started to only rely on the skills he hasnt, his overall efficiency dropped a big deal.

Not sure why you are naming a bunch of stars and superstars. These are elite players and they will all be paid a lot of $ in the future. I don't think the Habs have a player that can be compared to these guys except Kovalev and even he does not look too good against most of them. Also, most of these are still kids... you need to give them some time before calling them out like that.

What I meant is that you can be skilled but skills only wont make you a great player, a winner.. You have to play the game with fire in both end of the ice, you have to be angry when your line is outplayed, when you cause a turnover, you have to get your nose dirty, you have to win your battle along the board.. So when you combine top level skills, top level intensity and dedication for the win, you are a real superstar... Bégin proved that hard work and passion can lead you far even if you arent the most skilled out there

Dagenais has one thing, soft hands. If he only had something else, he could play some type of role in the NHL.

Totally desagree, the only thing the guy has is a shot, his hands are far from being soft watch your tapes.. The guy has poor stickhandling and passing skills at best.

Put him on the same line as Rich Nash and watch them produce...

You could be surprised the wrong way... Playing with Nash wont make his weakness desapear.. Put Plekanec with Nash for fun.

Maybe but I'm not sold on Pleks as a 2nd line center yet. I think he was doing a great job on his line in the playoffs. Its another thing to lead the team on the top lines having the opposition prepare themselves against you.

If used on an offensive role, get ready for a big surprise... Pleks isnt the most skilled of the world but sure has the skills to be a signifiant upgrade over Ribeiro, Pleks can be a solid second line center in the NHL Ive no doubt about that but I will agree that having him centering a third line with PK time wouldnt hurt either... In fact Pleks is pretty similar to Higgins, can play the PP the PK and any lines he will be asked to, can adapt to any roles.. But dont make the mistake to underrate his offensive skills believe me.

I get your point but none of these players have proven they can take it to the NHL level and that they can do it for a full season.

Obviously, they are still young and not NHL ready, I only think most of them are better than Ribs was at the same age.. more complete.

I don't get how you can be sure the 20 prospects will be better then a 65 pts guy.

Still.. Ribs had a good season but everything was going for him that season... Became first line center when Koivu got injured, was playing on every PP1 even when Koivu was in the line-up.. Had the opportunity to reach good numbers.. I advertised people that Ribs wouldnt reach those numbers again cause I believed we would be a way more skilled team the season after and that I expected Ribs to get PP2 and less ice time even strength, I said his weakness would become more evident.
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08-16-2006, 02:47 AM
  #119
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OMG, stop bashing Rib's... Yeah he don't play well each game, but damn, he lead the team with 65 points, made 51 that year, how you can say that a prospect rank 20 on the team gonna be better then him ?

You say isnt a NHL caliber hockey player, isnt even more an AHL player. Just wait that season if he play with Samsonov and Kovalev, after that we gonna see if he still suck a lot, who adjust his play with those Russian.
Im just saying that Ribs wasnt a better prospect at the same age than most of our guys on our actual top 20.. Despite his weakness the guy found a way to become the second line center of the Habs and its great accomplishment... But remember who he had to outplay to get that job.. Perreault.. Remember how mediocre was our prospects chart before 2001, remember how mediocre our team was when Houle decided to make a place for RIbs in the roster.. Ask Locke how is it to play at the AHL level right now after dominating the CHL in pts...

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08-16-2006, 06:35 AM
  #120
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Oh DROP THE RIBS ARGUMENT HE IS NOT A TOP 20 PROSPECT!!!!


Thanks Jay for the Article, and I agree with you...it's all potential..who will pan out, and who wont...who knows? I'm of the school of thought that hey...why don't they all exceed our expectations? Is that really a bad thing?

People will always whine, ***** and complain, underapreciate and say they know more, but when asked to do it themselves the work they produce is Uber CR@p...so don't worry about morons man, just keep writting ur stuff!!



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08-16-2006, 07:11 AM
  #121
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Im just saying that Ribs wasnt a better prospect at the same age than most of our guys on our actual top 20.. Despite his weakness the guy found a way to become the second line center of the Habs and its great accomplishment... But remember who he had to outplay to get that job.. Perreault.. Remember how mediocre was our prospects chart before 2001, remember how mediocre our team was when Houle decided to make a place for RIbs in the roster.. Ask Locke how is it to play at the AHL level right now after dominating the CHL in pts...
You've got to be kidding... Ribeiro was dominating the Q as a 17 year old! They guy had 125 points during his draft year. Locke had 43 points at the same age and wasn't even drafted.
You can't expect all prospects to excel in all facets of the game and the same thing can be said of regular NHLers. Some are offensive players, some are defensive, some play both sides of the ice well and are more complete. You need guys like Ribeiro on a team because scoring and playmaking are just as important as shutting the other team down. In fact, Ribeiro's defensive play is more than accurate for a 1st line center who's job is to create offense.

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