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Blues Trade Proposals - Part 5

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Old
04-01-2013, 01:43 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
It's a good word. Underused.
Agreed...It is not quite "ribald" in the underutilized category, but then what is?

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04-01-2013, 01:50 PM
  #477
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I really don't think Perron has played any differently this year than any other years. He has always taken stupid penalties, but his creativity makes up for it. Backes takes a lot of questionable penalties too, you don't see everyone wanting to trade him. If we were winning this wouldn't be a topic of discussion.

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04-01-2013, 01:53 PM
  #478
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I really don't think Perron has played any differently this year than any other years. He has always taken stupid penalties, but his creativity makes up for it. Backes takes a lot of questionable penalties too, you don't see everyone wanting to trade him. If we were winning this wouldn't be a topic of discussion.
If we were winning, everyone would be playing better...

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04-01-2013, 01:53 PM
  #479
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Just some random rumors that I've read today. Take it or leave it, not sure if any are true but just throwing 'em out there to get ready for the deadline:

Bruce Garrioch:

- Blues have inquired on Mark Streit (not really surprising, and I also saw this from someone else on twitter yesterday but can't really remember from who)
- Blues looking for grit, named as a team who could have interest in Clowe (not expecting that to happen, but I would welcome another gritty forward)
- Blues offered Elliott around the league, no takers (we might as well just keep him until the offseason and then make a decision)

Jim Matheson:

- Penguins looking for 4th-line rental center. Mentioned Handzus and Nichol as possibilities. (This may just be speculation, not sure).
- Blues not impressed with Perron and Berglund, but if they were to make a move there it probably won't be until the summer.

--

And regarding McDonald: I'd definitely be open to trading him. Would be nice if we could somehow replace him with a grittier veteran for the playoffs.

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04-01-2013, 01:55 PM
  #480
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The Blues should look into Clowe because they need more terrible players who like to play from the bench. He is so terrible a playoff team and all its fans want to sell him.

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04-01-2013, 01:58 PM
  #481
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Well, the Sharks have more reasons than just the fact that he has 0 goals to trade him. He's an upcoming UFA and that team just needs to get younger and faster. Even if they make the playoffs, Wilson needs to start planning for the future.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you though.

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04-01-2013, 01:59 PM
  #482
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I imagine the price on Streit was too high and we settled for Leopold. I think we definitely need to add some grit, but don't really know where it would fit in.

I'm expecting a Perron and/or Berglund trade in the summer. Regardless, Berglund will be getting an Oshie/Stewart prove it deal IMO. One year at around 2.5 if he is still here next season.

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04-01-2013, 02:10 PM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
Blues have inquired on Mark Streit (not really surprising, and I also saw this from someone else on twitter yesterday but can't really remember from who)
Ugh.

Quote:
- Blues looking for grit, named as a team who could have interest in Clowe (not expecting that to happen, but I would welcome another gritty forward)
Well, if the Blues were able to get Clowe for free, then...
**** No...absolutely not.

Quote:
- Blues not impressed with Perron and Berglund, but if they were to make a move there it probably won't be until the summer.
Let us be honest, the Blues should not be overly impressed with anyone save a few players this year. (The rookies, Jackman, Sobotka, etc.)


Quote:
And regarding McDonald: I'd definitely be open to trading him. Would be nice if we could somehow replace him with a grittier veteran for the playoffs.
To be quite honest I would rather they Blues trade McDonald if they are getting something which takes care of a future need. Center for example. Otherwise turn him in to a higher level draft pick (McDonald + 3rd = 1st or something...likely not very reasonable) in hopes the Blues can move up to take someone with impact.

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04-01-2013, 02:12 PM
  #484
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I think the Blues should be both buyers and sellers at the deadline. The market is ripe to trade off expendable players that likely have no future here (McDonald/Cole). Two guys that will play no vital role in the playoff chase who could bring back a significant pick if packaged while simultaneously freeing up money.

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04-01-2013, 02:14 PM
  #485
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Barulin has never shown much of an interest in the NHL and earns good money in Russia. Plus, he has 2 years left on his contract.
Well. There. You. Go... Too bad we can't trade Halak to Ak Bars Kazan for Barulin.

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04-01-2013, 02:16 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
I think the Blues should be both buyers and sellers at the deadline. The market is ripe to trade off expendable players that likely have no future here (McDonald/Cole). Two guys that will play no vital role in the playoff chase who could bring back a significant pick if packaged while simultaneously freeing up money.
Not overly fond of dealing Cole for picks.
Dealing him for an upgrade makes sense (ignoring financials for a moment) but moving him for a simple pick is a lot of rolling the dice again.

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04-01-2013, 02:25 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
Not overly fond of dealing Cole for picks.
Dealing him for an upgrade makes sense (ignoring financials for a moment) but moving him for a simple pick is a lot of rolling the dice again.
Personally I am in favor of dealing Cole for is own god they keep bringing in worse veterans to block him. Cole has been the best LH Defenseman outside of Jackman this season. Hitchcock just doesn't trust him. Even though Pietrangelo has in general has been more of the problem then Cole when they were paired together.

I want Cole to go to a team with a coach that will actually give him a chance. So I am fully in support of giving him away at this point.

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04-01-2013, 02:26 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
Not overly fond of dealing Cole for picks.
Dealing him for an upgrade makes sense (ignoring financials for a moment) but moving him for a simple pick is a lot of rolling the dice again.
Generally agree but he has low value and my personal opinion is he doesn't have much of a future here as long as Hitchcock is coaching. But the larger point was centered on McDonald based solely on the inflated market.

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04-01-2013, 02:31 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Personally I am in favor of dealing Cole for is own god they keep bringing in worse veterans to block him. Cole has been the best LH Defenseman outside of Jackman this season. Hitchcock just doesn't trust him. Even though Pietrangelo has in general has been more of the problem then Cole when they were paired together.

I want Cole to go to a team with a coach that will actually give him a chance. So I am fully in support of giving him away at this point.
Cole has not been the best LH dman besides Jackman. Cole has been our most inconsistent player and has been downright atrocious at times.

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04-01-2013, 02:32 PM
  #490
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Generally agree but he has low value and my personal opinion is he doesn't have much of a future here as long as Hitchcock is coaching. But the larger point was centered on McDonald based solely on the inflated market.
Really...I mean if someone were to cough up a first like a Columbus for some fire power up front, then by all means let him go. If we could get two 2nds for Andy, then....bye. I agree.

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04-01-2013, 02:33 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Cole has not been the best LH dman besides Jackman. Cole has been our most inconsistent player and has been downright atrocious at times.
Totally agree...

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04-01-2013, 02:33 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Cole has not been the best LH dman besides Jackman. Cole has been our most inconsistent player and has been downright atrocious at times.
Redden and Russel have been better really? I don't really think he has ever been that bad except the games where the whole team was awful. He's actually been solid.

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04-01-2013, 02:38 PM
  #493
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Redden and Russel have been better really? I don't really think he has ever been that bad except the games where the whole team was awful. He's actually been solid.
I'm a Cole fan, but he has been pretty awful at times. Russell was only bad in the very beginning. Cole hasn't been physical and hasn't been calm or patient.

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04-01-2013, 02:45 PM
  #494
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I personally get tired of everyone giving Hitchcock and Armstrong free passes. They are not the best coach and GM an the league. They both have been fired in the past from the same jobs for good reason.

The blind trust they get on this board is frustrating at times. Hitchcock is questionable at lineups. He went with Russel way to long before benching him. Look he finally benched him and Russel looks so much better. He went with Elliott for way to long before giving Allen a shot. He gave Allen a shot and could possible have saved our season now.

We just sent Allen down for the season. Elliott has been awful this season. I do think Elliott can be a good goalie again but we do not have the time this season to have him as our backup. If Halak starts of struggling I have zero faith in Elliott coming in as relief. Was that a Hitchcock decision or an Armstrong decision?

I give Armstrong some slack because I do agree that a lot of the times his hands are tied. Getting the player we need wont be an easy thing to do for a budget team. I didn't think Redden was a good option at the signing. I don't think Leopold is a good trade either. Armstrong has made some trades where it appeared we got less then market value for players that were spare parts for our team. He did get fired from Dallas and replaced with Brett Hull. So I don't think he is above being questioned.

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04-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I personally get tired of everyone giving Hitchcock and Armstrong free passes. They are not the best coach and GM an the league. They both have been fired in the past from the same jobs for good reason.

The blind trust they get on this board is frustrating at times. Hitchcock is questionable at lineups. He went with Russel way to long before benching him. Look he finally benched him and Russel looks so much better. He went with Elliott for way to long before giving Allen a shot. He gave Allen a shot and could possible have saved our season now.

We just sent Allen down for the season. Elliott has been awful this season. I do think Elliott can be a good goalie again but we do not have the time this season to have him as our backup. If Halak starts of struggling I have zero faith in Elliott coming in as relief. Was that a Hitchcock decision or an Armstrong decision?

I give Armstrong some slack because I do agree that a lot of the times his hands are tied. Getting the player we need wont be an easy thing to do for a budget team. I didn't think Redden was a good option at the signing. I don't think Leopold is a good trade either. Armstrong has made some trades where it appeared we got less then market value for players that were spare parts for our team. He did get fired from Dallas and replaced with Brett Hull. So I don't think he is above being questioned.
They get passes? I see almost every game when we start losing someone complaining how stupid Hitch is for switching the lines and I agree with them sometimes. But he came in and turned this team around last year, we can't just keep going through coaches.

We don't know what the market looks like. We don't know what outrageous demands some teams are asking for their players. Or players that are available , aren't the players we really need on our team. i'm not sure if you are expecting Army to trade Porter for Malkin but he is very limited to what he can do as a GM.

They get passes because it's more of the players fault for how the team has been playing. While yes, Armstrong and Hitchcock obviously contribute to the teams wins and losses, it's on the players now. A lot of these guys have been playing with each other for 4+ years and still can't get their crap together. Time to stop dumping our coaches and start dumping the players that aren't playing well.

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04-01-2013, 03:53 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Personally I am in favor of dealing Cole for is own god they keep bringing in worse veterans to block him. Cole has been the best LH Defenseman outside of Jackman this season. Hitchcock just doesn't trust him. Even though Pietrangelo has in general has been more of the problem then Cole when they were paired together.

I want Cole to go to a team with a coach that will actually give him a chance. So I am fully in support of giving him away at this point.
Well, this is completely wrong and this poster is someone who had the same concern when Redden was signed b/c a veteran coach tends to prefer veteran players and I wanted Cole to get every opportunity to play in the top 6 from day 1. And as it turns out, he did. So no one "blocked" Cole.

The problem was that Cole really did nothing to distinguish himself during his time in the lineup as Hitchcock most certainly gave him some big opportunities this season. He was on record saying he wanted Cole to run with being a top 4 defenseman. And the truth is that tough QoC aside, he really didn't.

The bottom line is that Hitchcock and Army very much craved for Cole to step up and solidify the top two pairings on the left side. It's been six years since he was drafted in the first round and everyone in the organization hoped that this was finally the year that he would blossom into a really solid defender because he has shown flashes and has a great attitude. And Cole's potential blossoming was further important because of the position he played. It was a huge hole. Trust me, everyone wanted him to succeed.

But at the end of the day his play facilitated the rotation with Redden and eventually KH determined the diminished veteran was better equipped to handle top 4 minutes than the younger player whose growth seemed to be stagnating. It was the best of two bad options.

I do firmly believe that the organization is souring on him and he's one of those guys that I really don't see flourishing in another organization. I know there are some smart posters who disagree with this take and I viewed him highly at one time too; but there really isn't any way to spin the narrative that getting beaten out of a regular roster spot by Wade Redden is good.

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04-01-2013, 04:15 PM
  #497
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Well, this is completely wrong and this poster is someone who had the same concern when Redden was signed b/c a veteran coach tends to prefer veteran players and I wanted Cole to get every opportunity to play in the top 6 from day 1. And as it turns out, he did. So no one "blocked" Cole.

The problem was that Cole really did nothing to distinguish himself during his time in the lineup as Hitchcock most certainly gave him some big opportunities this season. He was on record saying he wanted Cole to run with being a top 4 defenseman. And the truth is that tough QoC aside, he really didn't.

The bottom line is that Hitchcock and Army very much craved for Cole to step up and solidify the top two pairings on the left side. It's been six years since he was drafted in the first round and everyone in the organization hoped that this was finally the year that he would blossom into a really solid defender because he has shown flashes and has a great attitude. And Cole's potential blossoming was further important because of the position he played. It was a huge hole. Trust me, everyone wanted him to succeed.

But at the end of the day his play facilitated the rotation with Redden and eventually KH determined the diminished veteran was better equipped to handle top 4 minutes than the younger player whose growth seemed to be stagnating. It was the best of two bad options.

I do firmly believe that the organization is souring on him and he's one of those guys that I really don't see flourishing in another organization. I know there are some smart posters who disagree with this take and I viewed him highly at one time too; but there really isn't any way to spin the narrative that getting beaten out of a regular roster spot by Wade Redden is good.
I feel this is very unfair analysis. Ian Cole got thrown to the wolves. It was totally sink or swim. He was playing against the top competition from other teams, playing with a partner who for the most part was leaving him out to dry, and playing in front of goaltending that was LEAGUE WORST at the time. For a guy with less then 70 NHL games played, I think he played fairly well overall. He has been inconsistent at times, but his only truly -bad- game was the one against LA, and we all looked like garbage that game.

Wade Redden has had the most sheltered minutes on this team the last 10 games or so. If we give Cole those minutes, who knows what happens. For whatever reason, we didn't. I'm not about to write him off as a bust though until we actually give him a chance to grow into his role instead of thrusting it on him without support.

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04-01-2013, 04:26 PM
  #498
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Had Redden been hurt and Cole took his place, I don't think the reaction here would've been, "Oh great, now we're going to be worse." Cole definitely had to play against tougher competition than Redden has faced in more sheltered minutes. He's had less than a full season's worth of games against NHL competition. I think drawing a conclusion that he's used up all these great opportunities and failed is way too premature.

In retrospect it's looking like Cole's decision to stay in school an extra year really hurt his timing within the organization.

I don't necessarily see why he wouldn't succeed in another organization. He does have a great attitude. One thing he's never gotten is a consistent opportunity. He's obviously shown flashes of strong ability.

Timing-wise, Cole plus a very strong prospect or pick (Rattie/1st) for a guy like Giordano would better suit the Blues' need to win now.

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04-01-2013, 04:26 PM
  #499
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JayBo-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Leopold-Polak

That's a great defensive core, but Bob is on crack if he thinks our ownership will pay for it.

Maybe if we get Gio or Calgary takes at least 2 million for JayBo and we decide Leopold is strictly a rental.

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04-01-2013, 04:29 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by BadgersandBlues View Post
I feel this is very unfair analysis. Ian Cole got thrown to the wolves. It was totally sink or swim. He was playing against the top competition from other teams, playing with a partner who for the most part was leaving him out to dry, and playing in front of goaltending that was LEAGUE WORST at the time. For a guy with less then 70 NHL games played, I think he played fairly well overall. He has been inconsistent at times, but his only truly -bad- game was the one against LA, and we all looked like garbage that game.

Wade Redden has had the most sheltered minutes on this team the last 10 games or so. If we give Cole those minutes, who knows what happens. For whatever reason, we didn't. I'm not about to write him off as a bust though until we actually give him a chance to grow into his role instead of thrusting it on him without support.
I would be more inclined to buy the "thrown to the wolves" argument if he was much younger. He's 24. He was drafted six years ago. He's developed in Peoria. He's played in the NHL. He's absorbed how to be a professional. He's dealt with good coaches. Jonas Brodin is 19 and handling top pairing minutes. Cole was just asked to play 17-18 minutes of solid even strength hockey with no special teams. So if it wasn't entering this season, than at one point can we expect Cole to take his game to the next level? At some point, the good players start to separate themselves no matter the situation or role they are asked to play.

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