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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the equally confused thread) x2

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04-01-2013, 09:58 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by NBTW
Ok, I'll bite.

What's the disconnect with what he says off the ice and what he does on it?

And it wouldn't be interesting to know how much of this talk there was before the extension.
I've thought this for a long time. The extension has nothing to do with it.

He doesn't hit, he plays with little to no grit (contrary to image), he's a puck hog, he arguably disappears in the playoffs, etc. I mean, the guy obviously has a real drive to improve his game and works hard and so on. I just think that drive comes from his ego. He cares about being a "consummate professional" because he cares about being seen doing it.

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04-01-2013, 10:12 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
I've thought this for a long time. The extension has nothing to do with it.

He doesn't hit, he plays with little to no grit (contrary to image), he's a puck hog, he arguably disappears in the playoffs, etc. I mean, the guy obviously has a real drive to improve his game and works hard and so on. I just think that drive comes from his ego. He cares about being a "consummate professional" because he cares about being seen doing it.
What does him not hitting have to do with what he says in the press?

He's more than willing to block shots, take a beating in the front of the net, and engage in physical battles along the boards. He played with a broken foot for four months and miss 4 games in the last 5 seasons before this one as a Capital. How is that not playing with little to no grit?

On the puck hog thing, I don't see it (and I know it's mostly derived from a few two-on-ones with Ovechkin where he shot instead of passing). His lack of top-notch hockey sense gives him a bit of tunnel vision at times, but he's not selfish with the puck. As before, how does that contradict what he's said to the press?

And how on Earth do you know his motivations for being a consummate professional? With something like that, unless explicitly stated, one can't even remotely glean that from interviews.

Frankly, I don't see why anyone would give a **** what a player's motivation is for being a consummate professional, so long as he acts like one. If everyone on the team cared "about being seen doing it" this team probably has a Cup in the Ovechkin era by now.

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04-01-2013, 10:22 PM
  #253
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It doesn't contradict "what he said" exactly. It contradicts what he intentionally implies. That you can't glean his motives doesn't mean they're not on display to be gleaned. You still seem to think his literal statements are all that exists. I have a problem with praising a guy as a leader etc. when his priority is himself. That's why his motives matter, but yes, trying hard for selfish reasons has a better impact on the team than slacking off for selfish reasons like most of them do.

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04-01-2013, 10:27 PM
  #254
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It doesn't contradict "what he said" exactly. It contradicts what he intentionally implies. That you can't glean his motives doesn't mean they're not on display to be gleaned. You still seem to think his literal statements are all that exists. I have a problem with praising a guy as a leader etc. when his priority is himself. That's why his motives matter, but yes, trying hard for selfish reasons has a better impact on the team than slacking off for selfish reasons like most of them do.
Right, so there's no disconnect between what he says and his play on the ice. How does his play on the ice contradict what he implies?

And you're making absurd assumptions about his motives and his priorities, because despite what you claim, they're not on display to be gleaned.

You're irrational hatred and desire to spin things against him is puzzling.

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04-01-2013, 10:44 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Right, so there's no disconnect between what he says and his play on the ice. How does his play on the ice contradict what he implies?

And you're making absurd assumptions about his motives and his priorities, because despite what you claim, they're not on display to be gleaned.

You're irrational hatred and desire to spin things against him is puzzling.
It's the little things that he doesn't do when it doesn't help feed his public image. The puckhogging when he has teammates in better scoring position is the biggest one. Lots of other little things that are noticeable when you go beyond stat watching.

Irrational hatred is what you do with Semin. I mean, I get that part about not liking him while he was here, but going out of your way to bash him while he's played well in Carolina is the epitome of irrational hatred.

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04-01-2013, 11:06 PM
  #256
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It's the little things that he doesn't do when it doesn't help feed his public image. The puckhogging when he has teammates in better scoring position is the biggest one. Lots of other little things that are noticeable when you go beyond stat watching.
Yeah, basically this.

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04-01-2013, 11:18 PM
  #257
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My fault for doing the comparison but I was more trying to highlight Green's lack of leadership rather than shift the focus or promote Laich's leadership (although I don't have as many issues as others do with Laich as I feel like he is the type of player every team needs in the playoffs). So can we now get this back to just being a Green thread as the title suggests?

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04-02-2013, 08:56 AM
  #258
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I'm not a fan of green this season. His shot is wicked, but he seems to run around too much into the zone. It took a while for this team to get use to the system; I'll start criticizing him more next season if he is the same.

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04-02-2013, 09:05 AM
  #259
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Laich and Green are both excuse-makers. In the noted "leadership" comparison, Green implicated a teammate, while Laich almost always keeps his comments very general using inclusive terms like "we".

But again, both are serial excuse-makers and can-kickers. My beef with Laich (and Green) is that FOR YEARS they've spoken in the press about "we're gonna" and "we need to", and then turned around and laid fat eggs on the ice, often with no obvious signs of trying to follow through on whatever promise they just made.

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04-02-2013, 09:07 AM
  #260
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Not sure how Green gets so much hate this season but Alzner gets a pass. I like Karl. He's a good young player. But...he doesn't shoot, doesn't hit, doesnt move people out of the way, etc. If he is not going to do those things then he better not make the kind of gaffes he has this year.

Karl is young but but doesn't bring the skating/passing/shooting that 52 does.

Either way Green's offense seems to be coming around which is great to see. Also great to see that he has rebounded nicely after the costly error vs the Isles.

The Caps will need him down the stretch.

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04-02-2013, 09:09 AM
  #261
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Ok so where's the Alzner gaffe thread?

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04-02-2013, 09:11 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
Ok so where's the Alzner gaffe thread?
A team can only have so many whipping boys at once. Karl is behind the list of Green/Schultz/Carlson/Hillen in terms of the D.

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04-02-2013, 09:29 AM
  #263
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I have been impressed with Alzner over the past month, he has thrown some of the biggest hits of his career. Ironically, throwing a huge hit that somehow knocked Kundratek out of the lineup.

Alzner hits more than Green does.

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04-02-2013, 09:34 AM
  #264
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I have been impressed with Alzner over the past month, he has thrown some of the biggest hits of his career. Ironically, throwing a huge hit that somehow knocked Kundratek out of the lineup.

Alzner hits more than Green does.
Green hasn't hit that much this year as compared to years past. I think that is a directive from the coach to save wear and tear on him. In fact I have no doubt it is.

I'll have to watch Alzner more carefully in terms of physical play. I have seen but a couple good hits from him all year.

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04-02-2013, 09:41 AM
  #265
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That couple of hits is many more than previous years. I think perhaps the rule changes mandate KA wrap less and hit more.

Green, i may differ. he was never a big hitter. When he did hit, they were huge hits. I think either he knows his shoulders are too important to his game, or the IIRC suspension he got made him re-think, why bother. No one else hits, why should it.

I watch other teams on odd occassion, every team I watch collectively seems to hit more than our guys do. Why aren't their coaches telling them not to hit?


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04-02-2013, 09:49 AM
  #266
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That couple of hits is many more than previous years. I think perhaps the rule changes mandate KA wrap less and hit more.

Green, i may differ. he was never a big hitter. When he did hit, they were huge hits. I think either he knows his shoulders are too important to his game, or the IIRC suspension he got made him re-think, why bother. No one else hits, why should it.

I watch other teams on odd occassion, the every team I watch collectively seems to hit more than our guys do. Why aren't their coaches telling them not to hit?
I totally agree that other teams seem far more physical on D than we are. Its pretty embarrassing actually.

Part of that is the roster makeup though and I think GMGM realized that by going out to get Oleksy. We haven't had both Erskine and Oleksy in the lineup together for many games at all so I'll wait to pass judgement there.

I think Green is different as he has had a run of injuries, plays alot of minutes, is the target of pretty much every team (if he wasn't a threat they wouldn't target him like they do) so Oates probably told him to avoid the physical parts of the game. I've observed that he is dodging far more hits this year from forcheckers.

I don't think its cowardice on his part. I think its a directive from Oates to preserve him and let other guys do the physical part.

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04-02-2013, 10:00 AM
  #267
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I agree there is no cowardice on Green's part. Indeed don't hit may be a directive by Oates to not stir the hornets nest, so to speak. But think come playoff time, it will be: hit or be hit. Will he be prepared to hit? Shouldn't he practice some?

Green almost seems indifferent to most anything, and it seems more than hitting. A 6M salary will do that. He is highly skilled and can do a lot more than skate and shoot. While his defense is improving, I wonder if he is a good mentor for Carlson, whose game seems to almost mirror Green.

But our team is on the bubble and expect guys like Green and Carlson to take a few more risks and try and throw one significant hit per game. As it is, is any forward afraid to get hit coming into our zone against those 2, ever?

I think I could skate an NHL shift against our D and live to talk about it. They are our core, our highest paid D; but are nice guys. And nice guys finish last.

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04-02-2013, 10:11 AM
  #268
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Green should not be expected to be above average or even average when it comes to hitting. That's not his game, and his injury history makes the prospect even less attractive.

It's clear he WANTS to avoid contact, but he keeps putting himself in situations that result in contact. He holds the puck while drifting toward the boards, presumably waiting for something to develop in front of him (rather than te other reason which would be trying to draw the defender, in which case he needs to stop because it's increasing the chances he'll be hit).

But he's waiting too long, and he's getting run at a lot by players looking to knock him out of the game (and at some point, maybe the league).

IMO you have to move Oleksy onto a pairing with Green. Someone has to be right there if players are taking shots at 52. These guys making runs have to learn to play with their heads on a swivel rather than zeroed in on Green, watching for him to become vulnerable. And for Green's part, he has to do as much as possible to avoid being in those situations, including making a pass or dump that isn't as fancy as he'd like if if means not drifting toward the boards or taking a hit.

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04-02-2013, 10:44 AM
  #269
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Green should not be expected to be above average or even average when it comes to hitting. That's not his game, and his injury history makes the prospect even less attractive.

It's clear he WANTS to avoid contact, but he keeps putting himself in situations that result in contact. He holds the puck while drifting toward the boards, presumably waiting for something to develop in front of him (rather than te other reason which would be trying to draw the defender, in which case he needs to stop because it's increasing the chances he'll be hit).

But he's waiting too long, and he's getting run at a lot by players looking to knock him out of the game (and at some point, maybe the league).

IMO you have to move Oleksy onto a pairing with Green. Someone has to be right there if players are taking shots at 52. These guys making runs have to learn to play with their heads on a swivel rather than zeroed in on Green, watching for him to become vulnerable. And for Green's part, he has to do as much as possible to avoid being in those situations, including making a pass or dump that isn't as fancy as he'd like if if means not drifting toward the boards or taking a hit.
I'd rather see Erskine with Green. He's a heavy, and it doesn't screw up the almighty handedness situation.

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04-02-2013, 10:45 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
I'd rather see Erskine with Green. He's a heavy, and it doesn't screw up the almighty handedness situation.
I wouldn't mind seeing this either but Erskine has played well with Carlson too.

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04-02-2013, 10:56 AM
  #271
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I'd rather see Erskine with Green. He's a heavy, and it doesn't screw up the almighty handedness situation.
Take your pick. Erskine is hurt, right? So Oleksy.

Best of all possible worlds you get at least 2 d-man pairings with a finesse guy and a hitter who will fight AND can manage the puck.

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04-05-2013, 08:04 AM
  #272
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5 goals in 4 games and the streak continues. Any chance he can break 8? Probably not feasible but wow was he good last night.

He seemed to have the puck the entire game.

I found it funny that on a few occassions the Isles were butt scared of him. Alot of times the isles swarmed us trying to force turnovers even when we got past their 1st forchecker.

However when Green would get past the first guy it was like a fire drill of frenchmen falling back.

The Isles fear of him was tangible and I could see it through my TV screen.

I don't think I've ever seen a better stickhandling dman when #52 is on his game. But then again Bobby Orr was way before my time. Coffey was pretty good but mostly due to his insane speed. Green's toe drags make the opposing players look like fools.

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04-05-2013, 08:16 AM
  #273
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alzner is a better partner for green than erskine. if, that is, you want green to take full advantage of his explosiveness and his offensive skill. erskine needs to have his back covered by a good skater as much as green needs his back covered for jumping into the play.

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04-05-2013, 08:24 AM
  #274
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alzner is a better partner for green than erskine. if, that is, you want green to take full advantage of his explosiveness and his offensive skill. erskine needs to have his back covered by a good skater as much as green needs his back covered for jumping into the play.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. Perhaps Green would greatly benefit from a physical presence? I really don't care as long as Alzner and Erskine are both in the lineup and Green is healthy.

But I think one thing is that Green plays 25 minutes a night. I don't think Erskine is ready for that kind of workload as his partner. I'd be comfortable with about 20 for #4 and near 30 for #52.

The more ice time Green can handle the better.

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04-05-2013, 08:34 AM
  #275
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Green seems to have lightened the load on his head and his just letting them rip.

Perhaps he like Ovi at times, just looks to pass too often; over thinks offense

Those 2 are our big guns and when they aren't looking to shoot first, they are inside their own heads.

I think Oates has opened his eyes, dude, you are an offensive defensemen. Be one up to their dots. Watching him abstain from offense particularly under Bruce circa 2011?, was mind boggling and really stifled our team. Bruce was asked about Green and said he was begging him to be Green but he was fixation on becoming better defensively.

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