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NHL in Houston

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Old
03-31-2013, 10:12 PM
  #151
jntadt22
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
And now coming off MLB worst 106 & 107 loss seasons - well, their entire team payroll is less than what the Yankees are paying an injured ARod not to play.
That may be, but now that the Astros are in the same division as the Rangers, there will be more of a demand for better talent and a better rivalry.

I personally think Houston would be an excellent market for hockey. I think one of the main problems with Phoenix was no natural rivals. I also think Dallas struggles with this same thing on their "down" years. But if you put Houston in the NHL, you will automatically have those games to key on even in the bad years. You could almost throw Atlanta in that Phoenix debate as well, because they had no natural rivals to speak of. Both Florida teams had each other, Nashville was in the west and the closest possible rivalry, Carolina Hurricanes, have other older rivalries from their Whaler days.

This is also why I think a Seattle franchise would work, because they could be a rival to Vancouver.

Look at all the super successful franchises, and you'll find a hatred from a rival fanbase. Yankees/Red Sox, Red Wing/Blackhawk, Celtics/Lakers, etc.

My two cents, FWIW!

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04-01-2013, 06:47 PM
  #152
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I think you mean Earthlings & not Gang there uhlaw (dead giveaway is that Sumerian name btw)... and Houston huh?... Nasa... and you say your "currently stationed in the DC area"... interesting.... where we talkin here? Remote Viewing Division out at Langley? Reverse Engineering & flight simulations of you know what on Wallops Island? Perhaps assigned to the Medical Informatics & Technology Application Consortium at VCU Hospital working on the latest versions of 7of9, 8of11, 9of12? If you want an NHL franchise in Houston seems to me an easy enough matter... all those otherworldly resources at your fingertips. Childs play in fact. Develop & sign some Hybrids, Cup's yours for keeps.
Actually, I'm an Army Officer (should be promoted to Lieutenant Colonel on May 1st), and am stationed at the Pentagon.

The username uhlaw97 is a reference to the University of Houston Law Center, from which I received a law degree (JD) in 1997 (I still have law licenses in TX and DC, but haven't practiced in over 15 years, and I do NOT do that type of work in the military).

I'm a Houston native and fan of the Aeros AHL team, but I support the Washington Capitals in the NHL, as they are currently my "home town" team.

If Houston ever received an NHL franchise, however, my loyalty would switch.

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04-01-2013, 08:43 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by uhlaw97 View Post
Gang,

As a Houston native who has periodically brought this topic up on this board, I would like to again advocate Houston as a potential NHL market.

It is true that as long as Les Alexander owns the Rockets, getting an NHL team will be hard, because he would have to be the owner.

OTOH, an 18,000 seat state of the art, hockey capable arena is ready. Houston does have a very large potential fan base. First of all, it's America's fourth largest city and 10th largest TV market. Second of all, many people have moved here from other parts of the country, including many places where hockey is big. Third, the Aeros IHL/AHL team has now been playing here successfully for some 19 seasons. Just imagine what the NHL, a MAJOR LEAGUE franchise could do! Finally, Houston has a GREAT history. While in the WHA, the original Houston Aeros with Gordie Howe (see my avatar) won TWO titles.

Dallas, of course, provides us with a natural rivalry, one which already exists in other sports (and which will get bigger now that the Astros will be playing the Rangers more regularly as members of the MLB American League West!).

As for the fear that our market will cannibalize the Dallas Stars' market. Come on now. The two cities are a five hour drive away. The Dallas Stars receive VERY LITTLE support from Houston. They aren't even covered in the Houston newspapers. Houstonians that follow an NHL team usually DON'T follow the Stars. I for example, support the Washington Capitals, since I'm stationed in the DC area now. But if Houston ever received an NHL franchise, I'd quickly become their biggest fan!

In any event, don't worry about Houston cannibalizing the Dallas market. The two markets are completely separate and have hardly any overlap in following.

And if we do get an NHL franchise, then for both historical reasons, and because Houston remains the NASA headquarters, the team should be called either the Aeros or the Apollos. I'd bring back the originally WHA colors.
As a 30+ year resident of metro Houston, I respectfully disagree. The NHL has little to no chance of working in Houston.

Houston is not Dallas. Dallas is a cosmpolitain city which tries to be not only Southwestern but also at times sophisticated Northern, Houston is a melting pot of cultures. While Houston has a metro population of just over 6 million, the population is composed of over 100 ethnic groups, 90+ of them have no interest whatsoever in hockey based solely on where they (or their parents or grandparents) came from. Even among the "Anglo" population, hockey is hardly popular. Many regard it as a foreign or "Yankee" sport.

The fan base is largely based on northen relocations such as myself who grew up with the sport. A lot of us tend to live out from Houston proper in places like Katy, Sugarland, The Woodlands, or Clear Lake and face not too fun commutes of 20-40 miles into downtown in our wonderfull Houston traffic. Families will certainly avoid the school night dates.

Corporate Houston seems to be cheaper than their Northeastern breatherin in terms of season ticket support for business purposes. The Astros and Rockets seem to attract all the interest. The Texans don't seem to attract much and the Dynamo almost none.

Finally, the press here ignores hockey. The Aeros get virtuall no copy space or TV sports time (especially since Craig Reynolds left Channel 2). They don't like it, they don't understand it.

I think we should focus on keeping the AHL here (which looks in doubt for next season as well). The good thing about the AHL is you can actually afford season tickets, and get a lot of pleasure watching the kids develop into NHLers. Frankly the price of an NHL ticket is extremely hard to justify for what you get.

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04-01-2013, 09:19 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by uhlaw97 View Post
Actually, I'm an Army Officer (should be promoted to Lieutenant Colonel on May 1st), and am stationed at the Pentagon.

The username uhlaw97 is a reference to the University of Houston Law Center, from which I received a law degree (JD) in 1997 (I still have law licenses in TX and DC, but haven't practiced in over 15 years, and I do NOT do that type of work in the military).

I'm a Houston native and fan of the Aeros AHL team, but I support the Washington Capitals in the NHL, as they are currently my "home town" team.

If Houston ever received an NHL franchise, however, my loyalty would switch.
Good luck!!!

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04-01-2013, 11:27 PM
  #155
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If Les Alexander wanted an NHL team, Houston would be the #1 destination for Phoenix, not Quebec City.

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04-01-2013, 11:33 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by HoustonAerosFan View Post
Corporate Houston seems to be cheaper than their Northeastern breatherin in terms of season ticket support for business purposes. The Astros and Rockets seem to attract all the interest. The Texans don't seem to attract much and the Dynamo almost none.
This is just flat out wrong.

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04-02-2013, 05:10 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
This is just flat out wrong.
Please explain.

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04-02-2013, 07:18 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
If Les Alexander wanted an NHL team, Houston would be the #1 destination for Phoenix, not Quebec City.
At one time Les did want the NHL in Houston, trying to bring the Edmonton Oilers to Houston.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/12/sp...t-houston.html

As far as Houston supporting an NHL team, absolutely no doubt in my mind the city would support the team. It just seems the NHL doesn't want Houston. Just about every time there has been an NHL expansion, Houston has had a bid (or 3), to be included in the expansion. Turned down every time. Even current Houston Texans owner Bob McNair was rejected in a bid to bring a team here. Don't expect a line of candidates from Houston the next time the NHL expands.

Glad I was here in the glory days of Houston hockey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0kKwm3PVBk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtcBHXAXCgw

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04-02-2013, 09:33 PM
  #159
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A lot of people don't know this, but back in the mid-70s, the original Aeros used to OUTDRAW the NBA Rockets at the Summit.

And I can tell ya this much: there are more "transplanted Yankees" in Houston today than there were back then!

That's a huge potential hockey market.

NHL Hockey WILL succeed in Houston if it ever comes. I can tell ya this much. It doesn't make sense for places like Phoenix, Nashville, and Tampa to have NHL teams, and Houston not to.

As for the Texans not getting much interest.............uhh.................that's wrong.

They sell out EVERY game.........have since they were founded, and have consistently ranked in the Top 1/3 of the NFL in attendance. Forbes recently ranked them as one of the most valuable pro sports franchises.

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04-02-2013, 10:41 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by uhlaw97 View Post
A lot of people don't know this, but back in the mid-70s, the original Aeros used to OUTDRAW the NBA Rockets at the Summit.

And I can tell ya this much: there are more "transplanted Yankees" in Houston today than there were back then!

That's a huge potential hockey market.

NHL Hockey WILL succeed in Houston if it ever comes. I can tell ya this much. It doesn't make sense for places like Phoenix, Nashville, and Tampa to have NHL teams, and Houston not to.

As for the Texans not getting much interest.............uhh.................that's wrong.

They sell out EVERY game.........have since they were founded, and have consistently ranked in the Top 1/3 of the NFL in attendance. Forbes recently ranked them as one of the most valuable pro sports franchises.
This has probably already been discussed, but what happened to the 1970's Areos? How come they weren't included in the WHA-NHL merger?

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04-03-2013, 01:01 AM
  #161
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This has probably already been discussed, but what happened to the 1970's Areos? How come they weren't included in the WHA-NHL merger?
Thats a rather murky tale. Their had been talks of a WHA/NHL Merger in 77 including Houston & all of the WHA teams however the NHL rejected the plan. Then in 78/79 talks reignited, with Houston, Cincinnati, New England, Quebec City, Winnipeg & Edmonton all wanting in, however, the NHL would only accept 4 teams and the Canadian teams, all 3 of them were voting as a block, demanding they gain entry. Cincinnati folded, leaving the last spot open in New England which was favoured by NHL interests.

Houstons owner, Kenneth Schnitzer, an extremely wealthy real estate developer, asked the NHL to rather than just close the door, award Houston an Expansion Franchise which he'd gladly pay for in order to gain entry or sell him an existing NHL franchise that he could then Relocate to Houston. The NHL flat-out refused. This incensed Schnitzer so much, that he withdrew Houston from the WHA during its final year of play in 78/79.... this was not some Hick East Texan you messed with, and not advisable to mess with them either, and insofar as he was concerned, no longer wanted anything to do with so obviously a Bush League as the NHL. Bunch of messed up individuals, Schnitzers money & the city of Houston wasnt good enough for them? Who wouldnt be pissed? Eff em.

Now, just why the NHL refused Houston, Schnitzers entreaties, which to most reasonable people would have been better than just great, as in "Welcome Aboard" and accommodated the man & the market in some way, well, thats not what the NHL did as we all know. Houston & Schnitzer were made an example of. Upstarts that had cost the NHL untold millions. Signed Gordie Howe out of Retirement, upsetting the Norris clan in Detroit & Chicago. Raided the rosters, caused salaries to skyrocket. All kinds of grief. Preferable the WHA just disappear but as they couldnt make that happen only very very grudgingly did they accept even the 4 teams they did, and even that was fought tooth & nail by the Canadiens, Leafs & Canucks.

The knives were never put away either. Eventually, Hartford, Winnipeg & Quebec (and ironically Edmonton - Alexander was very close to buying the Oilers, moving them to Houston in the mid-90's) all succumbed to long held enmities, old grudges & scores to settle. That the Canuck Buck was crashing, need for new buildings in Winnipeg, Quebec, Karmanos constantly moving the goalposts in Hartford, all kinds of excuses and most legit enough to be sold to the public as to why they were losing their teams all the sweeter to the NHL. Had nothin to do with the fact that these were unwanted Redheaded Stepchildren who'd crashed the party. Nothin to do with that whatsoever. And if you believe that...

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04-09-2013, 04:58 PM
  #162
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With Aeros leaving Houston

Does this open the door back up to NHL? Alexander have any interest in jumping back into NHL game?

Last time the fact Houston had 3 separate bids in expansion killed there chance

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04-09-2013, 05:07 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Thats a rather murky tale. Their had been talks of a WHA/NHL Merger in 77 including Houston & all of the WHA teams however the NHL rejected the plan. Then in 78/79 talks reignited, with Houston, Cincinnati, New England, Quebec City, Winnipeg & Edmonton all wanting in, however, the NHL would only accept 4 teams and the Canadian teams, all 3 of them were voting as a block, demanding they gain entry. Cincinnati folded, leaving the last spot open in New England which was favoured by NHL interests.

Houstons owner, Kenneth Schnitzer, an extremely wealthy real estate developer, asked the NHL to rather than just close the door, award Houston an Expansion Franchise which he'd gladly pay for in order to gain entry or sell him an existing NHL franchise that he could then Relocate to Houston. The NHL flat-out refused. This incensed Schnitzer so much, that he withdrew Houston from the WHA during its final year of play in 78/79.... this was not some Hick East Texan you messed with, and not advisable to mess with them either, and insofar as he was concerned, no longer wanted anything to do with so obviously a Bush League as the NHL. Bunch of messed up individuals, Schnitzers money & the city of Houston wasnt good enough for them? Who wouldnt be pissed? Eff em.

Now, just why the NHL refused Houston, Schnitzers entreaties, which to most reasonable people would have been better than just great, as in "Welcome Aboard" and accommodated the man & the market in some way, well, thats not what the NHL did as we all know. Houston & Schnitzer were made an example of. Upstarts that had cost the NHL untold millions. Signed Gordie Howe out of Retirement, upsetting the Norris clan in Detroit & Chicago. Raided the rosters, caused salaries to skyrocket. All kinds of grief. Preferable the WHA just disappear but as they couldnt make that happen only very very grudgingly did they accept even the 4 teams they did, and even that was fought tooth & nail by the Canadiens, Leafs & Canucks.

The knives were never put away either. Eventually, Hartford, Winnipeg & Quebec (and ironically Edmonton - Alexander was very close to buying the Oilers, moving them to Houston in the mid-90's) all succumbed to long held enmities, old grudges & scores to settle. That the Canuck Buck was crashing, need for new buildings in Winnipeg, Quebec, Karmanos constantly moving the goalposts in Hartford, all kinds of excuses and most legit enough to be sold to the public as to why they were losing their teams all the sweeter to the NHL. Had nothin to do with the fact that these were unwanted Redheaded Stepchildren who'd crashed the party. Nothin to do with that whatsoever. And if you believe that...
That's quite the interesting little history! I too am kind of boggled that someone was willing to pay big dollars to be part of the NHL-and they said no. Interesting to speculate, IF Houston got the team, do Minny Northstars move south years later?

Wonder what cities came within a whisker of getting a team-and I don't mean more well known ones, but ones that make one ask "THEY almost got a team??" surely there are some examples?

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04-09-2013, 05:18 PM
  #164
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The Aeros are leaving Houston?

Can't say I'm surprised... everytime I went to a game the Arena was pretty empty.

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04-09-2013, 09:50 PM
  #165
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Uh, no.

We were talking about the ORIGINAL WHA Aeros with Gordie Howe.

They folded in the late 70s.

The current AHL Aeros are still in operation, and are usually in the Top half of that league in attendance.

For a minor league team, their attendance is not bad.

An NHL team would definitely comes close to filling the Toyota Center.

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04-10-2013, 07:52 AM
  #166
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The knives were never put away either. Eventually, Hartford, Winnipeg & Quebec (and ironically Edmonton - Alexander was very close to buying the Oilers, moving them to Houston in the mid-90's) all succumbed to long held enmities, old grudges & scores to settle. That the Canuck Buck was crashing, need for new buildings in Winnipeg, Quebec, Karmanos constantly moving the goalposts in Hartford, all kinds of excuses and most legit enough to be sold to the public as to why they were losing their teams all the sweeter to the NHL. Had nothin to do with the fact that these were unwanted Redheaded Stepchildren who'd crashed the party. Nothin to do with that whatsoever. And if you believe that...
You think so? I always figured it was because the holdover WHA teams also happened to be in smaller markets than the NHL teams. Meaning that 1) it was more difficult to fund suitable new arenas there and b) the markets didn't have the critical mass to survive the weak loonie. (In the case of Hartford they had attendance issues year after year. I supported them after the Nordiques left, but there wasn't much of a groundswell of support to keep them in town.) How would old grudges impact that situation... you're saying there just wasn't enough goodwill within the league for those markets for anyone to go to bat for them?

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04-10-2013, 09:11 AM
  #167
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Uh, no.

We were talking about the ORIGINAL WHA Aeros with Gordie Howe.

They folded in the late 70s.

The current AHL Aeros are still in operation, and are usually in the Top half of that league in attendance.

For a minor league team, their attendance is not bad.

An NHL team would definitely comes close to filling the Toyota Center.
Yes and now the current AHL Aeros are leaving Houston. There are moving to Des Moines to be closer to the Wild.

Does this bump up Les's desire for an NHL team? Maybe. I don't know.

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04-10-2013, 08:32 PM
  #168
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Yes and now the current AHL Aeros are leaving Houston. There are moving to Des Moines to be closer to the Wild.

Does this bump up Les's desire for an NHL team? Maybe. I don't know.
Given that his net worth is now down to about $80 million, I don't see him buying a franchise anytime soon. He'd have to partner with somebody to have a shot.

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04-11-2013, 02:13 AM
  #169
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Either Les Alexander has an intense hatred for hockey that burns at the intensity of 1000 suns or this is the first step for Houston to acquire an NHL franchise. Houston is now one of America's top cities and it would be an absolute embarasssment to lose a professional franchise (even if it is hockey) in a major sport. You simply can't have the AHL and NHL in the same building, and usually not even in the same city. How else can Les Alexander fill those 40+ dates he loses each year? Houston would jump to #1 on the list. They're ready NOW.

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04-11-2013, 09:21 AM
  #170
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I'm not so sure about the net worth reports. Les Alexander owns the Rockets, and last I checked they're worth around half a billion dollars. Alexander also recently bought a penthouse in Manhattan for a reported $41 million, and was also actively trying to purchase MLS' Houston Dynamo in September 2012. I don't believe he'd have a difficult time purchasing an NHL franchise.

This does seem curious.

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04-11-2013, 10:23 AM
  #171
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Alexander also recently bought a penthouse in Manhattan for a reported $41 million, and was also actively trying to purchase MLS' Houston Dynamo in September 2012. I don't believe he'd have a difficult time purchasing an NHL franchise.

This does seem curious.
AEG/De La Hoya/Brener rejected his bid for the Dynamo, I learned

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04-11-2013, 11:04 AM
  #172
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AEG/De La Hoya/Brener rejected his bid for the Dynamo, I learned
It may have been rejected, but my point still stands...

Forbes is stating Alexander's net worth is $80 million, but he just purchased a duplex penthouse in Manhattan for $41 million and he attempted to purchase the MLS Dynamo back in September, even though he was rebuffed, and the value of the Rockets' franchise is over half a billion dollars.

One of those points don't belong, and I'd believe it is the net worth.

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04-11-2013, 12:08 PM
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It may have been rejected, but my point still stands...

Forbes is stating Alexander's net worth is $80 million, but he just purchased a duplex penthouse in Manhattan for $41 million and he attempted to purchase the MLS Dynamo back in September, even though he was rebuffed, and the value of the Rockets' franchise is over half a billion dollars.

One of those points don't belong, and I'd believe it is the net worth.
I was merely expounding on the attempt to purchase Dynamo you stated

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04-11-2013, 12:32 PM
  #174
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How else can Les Alexander fill those 40+ dates he loses each year? Houston would jump to #1 on the list. They're ready NOW.
He doesn't have to fill the DATES, he would just want to replace the revenue, and some arenas (San Diego, Kansas City, Tallahassee, etc) have management who have calculated that they can make more revenue from a few concert nights than they can from 38 AHL home games with lesser attendance.

I need to find the link from the AHL board where a paper's blog talks about rumors of missing equipment and faulty wifi as signs that the facility is entirely disinterested in the Aeros, in a way that wouldn't to me suggest any desire to cater to an NHL team.

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04-11-2013, 12:54 PM
  #175
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He doesn't have to fill the DATES, he would just want to replace the revenue, and some arenas (San Diego, Kansas City, Tallahassee, etc) have management who have calculated that they can make more revenue from a few concert nights than they can from 38 AHL home games with lesser attendance.

I need to find the link from the AHL board where a paper's blog talks about rumors of missing equipment and faulty wifi as signs that the facility is entirely disinterested in the Aeros, in a way that wouldn't to me suggest any desire to cater to an NHL team.
2 page piece (thanks Aero 75)

Quote:
There's been talk of unreasonable rent demands, especially a large rent hike. And there's also been talk that Les Alexander and his minions have determined that it's more profitable to keep the arena dark, keeping it available for concerts, than in leasing the building out to the Aeros.

Toyota Center has been a somewhat difficult landlord this season. I've seen Aeros employees running around, searching for missing equipment like copy machines that were left overnight between games. The availability of press row wi-fi for the media has been a continuing problem. And the internet in the media room was switched off last week, which made it difficult for the media covering the team to file their post-game stories. And I've also heard rumblings of difficulties with the team being able to get proper access to the building when promised.
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairba...nes.php?page=2

Topic over on the AHL board

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1345431&page=3

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