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Game #35| Mar. 31, 2013| Capitals at Flyers | 6:00 p.m. ET

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Old
04-01-2013, 08:16 AM
  #726
WeekendAtBernies
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I'm not a Bryz-lover; I agree the goalie has been medicore, but the team defense has been abysmal all season long, in addition to being 2nd in the league in powerplays allowed. More breakaways, odd man rushes, and blown coverages than I've ever seen.

But it shows how extreme you are that when Johansson is given a shot in the slot after Giroux's turnover and he buries it, that you claim that Bryzgalov's effort was somehow pathetic. Goalies around the league get beaten in that situation all the time.
I was actually quite pissed at Giroux for that turnover. But unlike Bryzgalov, Giroux played his ass of the rest of the game and got us back in it. No Giroux last night = no win. You can't say the same for Bryz.

Also, regardless of the circumstances that led to that chance, the goal was stoppable and a better goalie makes that save. Was it the easiest save in the world? No. Do those goals go in every night in the NHL against all different types of goalies (from backups, to mediocre starters, to the elites)? Yes. But do they go in against Bryz at an extraordinarily high rate compared to other guys with his cap hit? YOU BET. Bryz could have stopped that shot. The truly elite goalies stop a lot more of those 50-50 shots than Bryz does. Period. End of story.

As far as the defense goes, until you can actually prove to me that we're giving up more breakaways and more scoring chances than other teams, I will refuse to believe it, because it goes against every statistical study I've ever read on scoring chances and their relation to shots on goal (which we allow very few of). Somehow I find it hard to believe that it's all about scoring chances and breakaways, when the teams that have in all likelihood allowed the most scoring chances (the teams who've also allowed the most shots) all have goalies among the leaders in save %. Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo, and Edmonton are bringing up the rear in terms of shots allowed, yet their goalies are posting .952, .920, .920, and .911.

Keep coming up with the excuses though and I'll keep knocking them down.

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04-01-2013, 08:20 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
I was actually quite pissed at Giroux for that turnover. But unlike Bryzgalov, Giroux played his ass of the rest of the game and got us back in it. No Giroux last night = no win. You can't say the same for Bryz.
Actually I can, because no Bryz would have meant Leighton in net.

The team defense is among the worst in the league, and does not do a good job at preventing high quality shots. Just look at last night. Tip in from point blank range, breakaway, horrible turnover that allows a shot from below the circles, one time blast on a powerplay from one of the best shooters in the league.

And they might be the worst team at clearing the puck, which leads to long periods of attack time for opposition teams and tons of point shots, deflections and tip-ins. And they have been shorthanded more often than any team in the league.

You want Bryz to be bad so you crow about a sub .900 save percentage from a single game, like one game is enough for that stat to be meaningful. Then you claim he gives up 4 goals per game.

He didn't have a good game last night, and he didn't have a bad game. He wasn't the story, except to people like you who are obsessed with him.


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04-01-2013, 08:26 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Quick? No. He's still recovering from an off-season back surgery. It's possible he never regains full range of motion / the full amount of quickness that made him so elite, but I'm willing to give a Conn Smythe winner coming off of back surgery a bit of a break, he's earned it. If he's still playing like this next year though, it's time to talk about whether he will ever truly regain his form.

Halak? He's posted 15 poor starts this season after 46 dominant starts on the same team last year. Do I think he sucks? No. Is he struggling? Yes. Will that be cause for concern if it continues? Yes. Would I say that he sucks if he reaches 30 starts and still has such a crappy save %? Yeah, probably.

The bottom line for me is that Ilya Bryzgalov has now played 92 regular season games in Orange and Black and has a save % of .906. That's not what we paid for. That's not cutting the mustard. It's not like he's been injured, it's not like this is a small little 15 game sample, this is prolonged terrible, inconsistent goaltending. When you see that and then you look over to Phoenix and see that they turned Mike Smith into a .930 save % starter last year and have LaBarbera @ .918 this year, you start to think that MAYBE, just MAYBE Ilya Bryzgalov isn't a franchise goalie. Maybe he's a system goalie who got paid big money thanks to Phoenix's defense-first system and Snider's stupid comments.
Don't hurt yourself backpedaling and making excuses when you find you've been caught making a statement you can't actually defend.

If you want to put this out there as a way to attack Bryzgalov.

Quote:
If you flirt w/ below a .900 save % in your prime as a goalie, you suck.
Have the balls to stand behind it when someone points out that it also applies to some other big name goalies.

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04-01-2013, 08:35 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
The team defense is among the worst in the league, and does not do a good job at preventing high quality shots. Just look at last night. Tip in from point blank range, breakaway, horrible turnover that allows a shot from below the circles, one time blast on a powerplay from one of the best shooters in the league.

And they might be the worst team at clearing the puck, which leads to long periods of attack time for opposition teams and tons of point shots, deflections and tip-ins. And they have been shorthanded more often than any team in the league.

You want Bryz to be bad so you crow about a sub .900 save percentage from a single game, like one game is enough for that stat to be meaningful. Then you claim he gives up 4 goals per game.

He didn't have a good game last night, and he didn't have a bad game. He wasn't the story, except to people like you who are obsessed with him.
100% agree with that last statement.

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04-01-2013, 08:40 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Don't hurt yourself backpedaling and making excuses when you find you've been caught making a statement you can't actually defend.

If you want to put this out there as a way to attack Bryzgalov.



Have the balls to stand behind it when someone points out that it also applies to some other big name goalies.
Oh please. I'm not backpedaling at all. I clearly stated my usage of that stat was FOR GOALIES WITH OVER 20 GAMES STARTED.

To use stats blindly without context is just silly. Hence why I'm not going to stupidly say that Jonathan Quick sucks. There's a perfectly logical reason as to why he's struggling this year. It's the very same reason I haven't criticized Hartnell in his first few games back from his leg injury and the exact same reason I didn't criticize Read after coming back from his injury and struggling at first. Injuries are a mitigating factor.

A small sample size is also a mitigating factor.

But neither injury, nor small sample size applies to Bryz. 92 games in Orange and black. 92 games of .906 save %. Not 50, not 30, not 15 (like Halak who you so desperately want me to criticize), WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 92 GAMES HERE, he sucks.

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04-01-2013, 08:52 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Actually I can, because no Bryz would have meant Leighton in net.
So? What's your point? Our backups have a .865 save % this year. Bryz posted a .862 save % last night. To say Leighton wouldn't have given us a chance to win a 5-4 game is disingenuous at best.

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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
The team defense is among the worst in the league, and does not do a good job at preventing high quality shots. Just look at last night. Tip in from point blank range, breakaway, horrible turnover that allows a shot from below the circles, one time blast on a powerplay from one of the best shooters in the league.
No, it's really not. You want it to be, but it isn't. They limit shots, they are extremely good on the PK, they have a decent personnel group when healthy, they're not anywhere near as bad as you're cracking them up to be.

And the only reason you continue to just post this OPINION with no stats and/or facts to back it up is because you can't find any that would support your opinion.

Unless you regularly watch every NHL team play night in and night out (and you'd need a boatload of free time to do so), I'd venture to say you're not qualified to comment on the quality of others' defenses relative to ours based on the eye test.

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04-01-2013, 09:01 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
So? What's your point? Our backups have a .865 save % this year. Bryz posted a .862 save % last night. To say Leighton wouldn't have given us a chance to win a 5-4 game is disingenuous at best.



No, it's really not.
It is, you just can't admit it. Just like you can't admit that Leighton is an awful, AHL-level goalie who doesn't play even on the second night of a back-to-back when a starting goalie would usually get a break because the coach knows he won't give the team a chance to win.

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04-01-2013, 09:06 AM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
It is, you just can't admit it. Just like you can't admit that Leighton is an awful, AHL-level goalie who doesn't play even on the second night of a back-to-back when a starting goalie would usually get a break because the coach knows he won't give the team a chance to win.
On average, Bryzgalov is clearly better than our backups. But on average, Bryzgalov doesn't give up 4 goals per game. So to say that Leighton stood no chance of winning a game where we scored 5 goals is absolutely ludicrious.

If you told me I could have Bryz in net and a guarantee that he gives up exactly 4 goals or i could go for the mystery box of Leighton for the night, I'd take Leighton.

As to the 2nd part of my post which you neglected, please, come back at me with some objective stats about how bad our defense is. I'd love to hear them. I'd wager you won't find anything though, because our defense isn't anywhere close to as bad as you make it out to be.

You'll likely just continue to insinuate that you've watched every NHL team play a minimum of 10 games this year and that your ability to evaluate defenses is basically on par with an NHL scout.

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04-01-2013, 09:27 AM
  #734
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I haven't watched that many games, but I watch other teams play and almost never see the three forecheckers deep plus a bad pinch by a defenseman plays that have happened constantly to the Flyers this season. And I rarely see another team outside of Colorado struggle so much to make basic clearing plays from their own zone.

But the Flyers have the 11th highest turnover ranking (unless it went up after last night), and have been shorthanded the most times in the league because of all the bad penalties taken when defending. It's no surprise that Bryzgalov's save percentage ranking is much higher shorthanded than it is at even strength, since the defense can just ice the puck instead of trying and failing to break out up the wall or getting it out only to turn the puck over in the neutral zone.

And 5 on 5 the Flyers are last in the league in percentage of face offs that took place in the offensive zone, and have the 9th highest percentage of face offs that took place in the defensive zone. The team has been on the back foot all year long.


Last edited by Curufinwe: 04-01-2013 at 09:34 AM.
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04-01-2013, 09:33 AM
  #735
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The Flyers are brutal on draws.

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04-01-2013, 09:39 AM
  #736
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The Flyers are brutal on draws.
Outside of Giroux, yeah. Couturier went 0 for 9 last night, and they're 23rd overall in Faceoff percentage. They lose far more defensive zone draws than they win offensive zone faceoffs.

They need Boyd Gordon or someone similar.

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04-01-2013, 09:48 AM
  #737
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I would've put a claim in on Jussi Jokinen.

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04-01-2013, 12:04 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
He actually made a lot of saves, including some difficult ones, but looked bad on the breakaway. Like he has done all year.

Maybe you could talk about which goals tonight you think Bryz should have stopped? Now that you've already got in the save percentage comment you've been waiting all weekend to make. Having to sit on it after yesterday's .971 must have been tough.

Wahoo. A game where he has a save percentage equal to Bobs for the entire month of March. Praise the lord. Pretty sure Bryz's save% for the season is equal to Bob's goals against for the month

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04-01-2013, 12:14 PM
  #739
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I have watched a lot of the Oilers this year. They're far, far worse on defense than the Flyers. They're easily the worst defense in the league. Conveniently, the stats happens to indicate the same. Fancy that.

Yet...somehow...Dubnyk's stats are far better than Bryz.

Nobody has managed to explain to me how this could be possible, and I've been asking for a while. My theory is that Bryzgalov just isn't that good.

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04-01-2013, 05:11 PM
  #740
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LOL

Bryz once again showing how terrible he is from going side to side


yea, OK, whatever ...

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04-01-2013, 09:40 PM
  #741
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yea, OK, whatever ...
Exactly. Bryz made about 10 cross ice saves on one-timers in that game, but OV finally beats him and he's suddenly a sieve.

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04-01-2013, 09:51 PM
  #742
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OV finally beats him
3:30 into a 4 minute PK, no less ......... i think some ppl posting here simply don't understand the position of goalie.

I am critical of our goalies, when i feel they deserve it. i thought Biron was awful. I have no confidence in BB or ML.

i think Bob was great his rookie year, no surprise he struggled last year. I think Bryz can be a great goalie, if we play better defensively overall - like the better teams in the league are doing.

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04-01-2013, 09:58 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
3:30 into a 4 minute PK, no less ......... i think some ppl posting here simply don't understand the position of goalie.

I am critical of our goalies, when i feel they deserve it. i thought Biron was awful. I have no confidence in BB or ML.

i think Bob was great his rookie year, no surprise he struggled last year. I think Bryz can be a great goalie, if we play better defensively overall - like the better teams in the league are doing.
That's funny because bryz hasn't played any better than biron did.

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04-01-2013, 10:32 PM
  #744
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yea, ok, whatever you say .... even though Bryz posted better numbers last year on this train wreck of a defensive team than Marty did .... who played on the #2 team in the league with solid team D.

Maybe Biron can get a starting job ..... next year. in the AHL.

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04-01-2013, 10:44 PM
  #745
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yea, ok, whatever you say .... even though Bryz posted better numbers last year on this train wreck of a defensive team than Marty did .... who played on the #2 team in the league with solid team D.

Maybe Biron can get a starting job ..... next year. in the AHL.
Or maybe he can join Bryz in the KHL after next year.

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04-01-2013, 11:18 PM
  #746
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I don't understand all this hyperbole over how bad our defense is. Sure, since Coburn, Grossmann and Meszaros went down its been one of the worst, if not the worst, in the league on paper. But prior to that our defense really wasn't that awful. There have been an inordinate amount of odd-man chances and breakaways I think (more so earlier in the season than more recently) from inopportune pinching and slow defenseman, but they made up for it with great play in their own zone with blocking shots and keeping play to the outside. Also I think our odd-man chances against are only above average, not nearly worst in the league.

It's unfortunate Bryz is so bad handling odd-man chances. That's on the coach for playing a system that doesn't fit the goalie. It's also on the GM for finding a goalie that doesn't fit the system. And lastly, it's on Bryz for simply sucking at making those saves. It's not acceptable play for a goalie with his salary and expectations to fail so hard at those chances, stopping odd-man chances are an incredibly important aspect of a goalie's game, and they're the saves that keep teams in games. Those are the opportunities that determine if you're a game changer or not. And Bryz has certainly not been one.

Unless we do a complete 180 and play a defensive system that almost erases the odd-man chances (Phoenix) Bryz won't be good. He doesn't fit the offensive system we like to play. Upgrading our defense is a stopgap and might limit a few of the goals but doesn't address the problem. In my opinion, it's either the offensive style system or Bryz that has to go. Whether or not Laviolette has worn out his welcome is arguable, but with the forward corps we have I'd hate to see this team play a defensive style to accomodate the goalie. It would be a waste of the talent we have, and no guarantee in a division that has offensive superstars like Crosby, Malkin, Nash, Ovechkin (next year), Kovalchuk and Tavares.

And that contract, it's not worth it for a goalie that doesn't fit your system. I hate to look back, but getting rid of Bobrovsky is really starting to look like a terrible mistake. He would have been perfect for this retooling we're going through.

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04-01-2013, 11:22 PM
  #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
yea, ok, whatever you say .... even though Bryz posted better numbers last year on this train wreck of a defensive team than Marty did .... who played on the #2 team in the league with solid team D.

Maybe Biron can get a starting job ..... next year. in the AHL.
I'm confused. How is it that Biron's .908, .918, and .915 are worse than Bryz's .900 and .909?

In the years where he had a starter's responsibility he crushes Bryz's stats.

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04-02-2013, 08:00 AM
  #748
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm confused. How is it that Biron's .908, .918, and .915 are worse than Bryz's .900 and .909?

In the years where he had a starter's responsibility he crushes Bryz's stats.
But how many of those years was Biron the undisputed Flyers MVP? ZERO.

You're focusing on silly statistics like save percentage and goals against average and shots against. What you should be looking at is BP1974's 100% objective goalie rankings. They paint a much more complete picture.

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04-02-2013, 10:46 AM
  #749
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm confused. How is it that Biron's .908, .918, and .915 are worse than Bryz's .900 and .909?

In the years where he had a starter's responsibility he crushes Bryz's stats.
shh you, with your crazyeeee facts..

don t you know everything is peachy always in Bryz-land..


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04-02-2013, 11:03 AM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
3:30 into a 4 minute PK, no less ......... i think some ppl posting here simply don't understand the position of goalie.

I am critical of our goalies, when i feel they deserve it. i thought Biron was awful. I have no confidence in BB or ML.

i think Bob was great his rookie year, no surprise he struggled last year. I think Bryz can be a great goalie, if we play better defensively overall - like the better teams in the league are doing.


Biron let in some seriously ugly goals, but he was the most consistent starter the Flyers have had since regular season Cechmanek. That speaks to the ****** goaltending the Flyers have had over the years more than anything.

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm confused. How is it that Biron's .908, .918, and .915 are worse than Bryz's .900 and .909?

In the years where he had a starter's responsibility he crushes Bryz's stats.
I think he was talking about Biron's stats in New York last year... Way to focus on an 21 game sample size...

By that logic, Marty is crushing Bryz this year (please ignore that Marty has only played in 6 games ).

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