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Isles beat Devils yet again, status quo continues

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Old
04-02-2013, 09:09 AM
  #76
njdevil26
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Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
And the purpose of trading Clarkson is... ? Who wants him? What kind of value are you getting back?

Why would he be extended? What's the point of breaking a policy that has been kept in place for everyone not named Stevens, Brodeur, or Zajac for the better part of two decades?

This isn't adding up dude. You're spending too much time following the hacks of Twitter/Facebook.
Not at all.

The way I see it, the Devils have time and time and time again lost players to free agency without getting anything back. If Clarky makes it to free agency, some team is going to open their checkbook to pay him for that 30 goal season and the way he started this year.

All I am saying is if I were Lou, I would be talking to him about an extension. If he's unrealistic, doesn't want to sign, wants to see what's out there, and so on it might be better for Lou to get something for him. Picks are a hot commodity this year. A 1st or a 2nd for Clarkson could go a long way for Lou to pick up a better forward.

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04-02-2013, 09:10 AM
  #77
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The winter's coming for the Devils

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04-02-2013, 09:10 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
One bad stretch in a short season and your done. There's a reason why Columbus is still in the hunt and Leafs are looking good.

You can't base what will happen next year, the year after, after a short season. With no training camp. With strange injuries to top minute players and role players getting huge minutes...

The ledge. Step away from it.
I know you keep saying this, and I get it, but…I still care about what happens this year. and that’s coming from someone who would’ve preferred no season to this ½ season joke. but we still have to put ourselves in a position to win this year, not just the ones after..

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04-02-2013, 09:11 AM
  #79
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Games at home on Thursday? Good god I pray for everyone that is going
In Boston this week, at The Rock next Wed April 10.

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04-02-2013, 09:11 AM
  #80
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Maybe they'll be done sucking by next week

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04-02-2013, 09:12 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BrodeursCups View Post
Player's go through slumps. Even your precious love child Parise who disappeared in almost every playoff series as a devil.

Your anti-kovalchuk agenda is incredibly sad and petty. Especially for a grown ass man. He's signed long-term for a reasonable cap hit and all you do is pout and moan about it.
Dude, the point was he isn't making a difference. I don't know how you argue it any other way...So how did I cherry pick stats?

If I really wanted to infuriate the children I would have wrote: "Yeah that 1 even strength goal over his last 20 games is really going to help"

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04-02-2013, 09:15 AM
  #82
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Isn't making a difference? The ENTIRE TEAM looks slow and lost without the guy.

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04-02-2013, 09:15 AM
  #83
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The winter's coming for the Devils


It's here. It's been here the last 8 weeks.

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Old
04-02-2013, 09:17 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
Why? He had 3 goals in his prior 14 games before going down and the Devils were
5 - 9 (counting OT losses as losses) with only 1 win against a playoff team (Winnepeg) who I don't believe was above .500 at the time.

Of course you want him in the lineup, but "desperately need"? They've been losing with him.
I get tired of Kovy bringing up the puck against 3 defenders with little to no puck support. Kovalchuk has no one to play with. He's the lone gunman on a team of largely ranch hands. If he ever got a real center that would take off the burden off his shoulders of practically doing everything, I still think he's possesses the talent to bag 40 goals in this league. Now obviously, these type of elite centermen are a rare commodity these days but...

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04-02-2013, 09:18 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Isn't making a difference? The ENTIRE TEAM looks slow and lost without the guy.
Are you insinuating they were better before he went down? It simply isn't true....They went from 1st in the conference to 9th while he was in the lineup...and during that time he didn't produce at all...Granted he wasn't a liability like in 2011, but he was mostly ineffective.

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04-02-2013, 09:19 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Not at all.

The way I see it, the Devils have time and time and time again lost players to free agency without getting anything back. If Clarky makes it to free agency, some team is going to open their checkbook to pay him for that 30 goal season and the way he started this year.

All I am saying is if I were Lou, I would be talking to him about an extension. If he's unrealistic, doesn't want to sign, wants to see what's out there, and so on it might be better for Lou to get something for him. Picks are a hot commodity this year. A 1st or a 2nd for Clarkson could go a long way for Lou to pick up a better forward.
Clarkson calls Lou Mr. Lamoriello. He is completely enamored by having PDB as his coach again. The guy is best friends with Marty and be teammates with Kovalchuk his entire career if he sticks here. A guy like Clarkson is the epitome of a guy who takes the home town discount. His family can settle down here, and he can just do his job.

I honestly cannot see him being a money-chaser. And considering what he brings to the table, I can't imagine Lou or PBD really wanting to ship him off. Yes, we've lost high profile free agents in the past. But we've also retained some huge ones, like Zajac and Kovalchuk.

As I'll expand on a little more below, we're not in a position to want draft picks. Our asset pool is weak, but we don't have the time to wait for them to grow. Unless it's a 1-5 overall, a 1st rounder doesn't really help us near term.

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Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
I know you keep saying this, and I get it, but…I still care about what happens this year. and that’s coming from someone who would’ve preferred no season to this ½ season joke. but we still have to put ourselves in a position to win this year, not just the ones after..
And trading away a player like Clarkson pushes us further from being competitive next season, IMHO. Draft picks take years to develop. Even 'sure fire' ones like our own Adam Larrson. We don't have the asset pool available to trade away guys for picks to develop over the next 3-5 years in a full rebuild mode. This is more likely to happen when Marty retires, assuming that a current young Devils goalie doesn't become a major heir apparent and deserving of a starting NHL role. I think we let this team ride it out. Let them miss the playoffs. Let them have all summer to think "How could we go from Stanley Cup Finals to not even in the dance?". Then they all come back, have a full camp, and really bear down and make a go of it.

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Old
04-02-2013, 09:22 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Isn't making a difference? The ENTIRE TEAM looks slow and lost without the guy.
No, they looked slow and lost with him too. They weren't playing good hockey at the beginning of the season, but were putting up wins and getting enough points to mask their ineptitude. Now, other teams are gelling and getting it all together (not surprising considering the lack of camp it took some teams quite a bit to get the chemistry and system down) and the Devils are lagging behind.

Injuries, coaching, GMing, whatever you want to blame, go for it. But placing it on a single player this late into this short, wacky season is just silly.

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Old
04-02-2013, 09:26 AM
  #88
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It's here. It's been here the last 8 weeks.
It's like the fans are the Nightswatch at the wall who already know that the white walkers are back, and Lou and Pete are chilling in King's Landing and don't give a ****.

Okay, no

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Old
04-02-2013, 09:27 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
Just wanted to reply because you hit 3 points I wanted to comment on;

1) Clarkson is not even thinking at this point unless he is deciding to do the opposite of what would be a good play on purpose to try and surprise the goalie. He is stopping shots from the point to take weaker shots, stealing pucks laying there for a 1-timer from hit teammate only to take a stupid off balance shot wide of the net, and refusing to pass when he should and refusing to shoot when he should - then destroying all the cycle work with a dumb toe drag, wrap around, fall down stupefied look on his face back at the ref for a penalty. I have no idea how Pete thinks he's playing good hockey. I can take 6 stupid shots a game too and not score, especially when I'm refusing to pass and stealing pucks from my teammates.

2) Yes he was. Zubrus said as much in the post-game interview. He stated he wasn't 100% and summarized he was a little rusty and expected it. Pete said he overplayed him at 14 minutes too, so it was out of desperation he was even dressed and then overplayed. Credit to the guy for dressing and giving it his all.

3) Larsson should not sit when playing his game as he can, but he was stinking it up the last few games before he sat down. I saw it as fatigue myself and not a scolding, but rather the maintenance rest. I expect him back soon but with how compressed the schedule is and how he was getting beat to the outside again with slow first steps to the puck, I am sure that is the real reason he was sat down and I can't disagree with it. Problem is now half the team needs sat based on that trait.

Beyond your points, I just feel this team and this season have slipped like a loose belt in the engine. It may squeal and slip only to have a little spray put on and the squealing stop, but it's not really being fixed.

The team is aging at the most key positions (goalie, top scorers, top minute Dmen), and have lengthy injuries to the top players as well. You can't take a 4th line made up of role players that are composed of marginal skill and out of their magical chemistry expect them to become the 3rd line all purpose grinders that replaces your lack of talent as a permanent solution. Then to bring in randoms again to back fill injuries and poor chemistry in your bottom 6, promote what should be a 3rd liner in Clarkson to top line duties and not replace your star captain's departure to free agency, well you start pushing the attack to replace the lost offense. That leads to more exposure on the D, and this D is not built to handle that and you get massive fails at getting the first goal which is paramount to the team strategy.

Now toss in the Marty injury and failure of the backup to perform to previous levels and a total stretch that destroys morale and confidence like a hydrogen bomb only to be coming out of the bunker to survey the damage when another bomb goes off and your star goal scorer is out in what should be the recovery phase and going on a playoff push to get back up in the standings and here we are - losing games in the final minutes, shrugging the shoulders and seeing how close they were to what should have been and at a loss how to fix it.

This team needs a lot of luck to be successful in it's current form. 1st goal & playing with a lead, forechecking susceptible teams, pk unit scoring, great goaltending and puckhandling, rolling 4 lines and cycling in the offensive zone. Almost none of that is happening (bold is to a degree) and they're not built to win outside of that. Injuries and OT/SO losses have only compounded the pain.

I don't see Lou making a move - the team as a whole isn't just a few plays away from blowing up and taking over in the playoffs. They are a few plays away from falling down and out of the playoffs entirely. That's why I hope he sells a couple of pending UFAs for once and re-tools with major fixes, not bottom 6 band-aids and hoping for the perfect scenario to happen.

I'm still optimistic they can make the playoffs after probably slipping out for a few games, but unless everyone gets healthy, rested, and someone gives the Braveheart speech of all-time that motivates these guys to new levels, I don't think they go past the 5 games in the playoffs and that gives me a sad because it makes me look back to last year and realize that was the last gasp for Marty and Patrik probably.
It all starts with a questionable top 6. I think the roster is servicable everywhere else and the other secondary roles are more defined when the top 6 is solidified. But if you look at the inconsitency and carousel (Matteau, Poni, D'Agostini, etc.) which has characterized the top two scoring lines, it doesn't take a genius to extrapolate that this team is mired in the bottom fifth in terms of Goals For .

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Old
04-02-2013, 09:28 AM
  #90
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I get tired of Kovy bringing up the puck against 3 defenders with little to no puck support. Kovalchuk has no one to play with. He's the lone gunman on a team of largely ranch hands. If he ever got a real center that would take off the burden off his shoulders of practically doing everything, I still think he's possesses the talent to bag 40 goals in this league. Now obviously, these type of elite centermen are a rare commodity these days but...
I don't know that "he" needs help per se, the team needs help. There just isn't any skill on this team.

I believe scoring cascades: When you have a good 1st line it opens room for subsequent lines and scoring comes. But this team is disjointed and you have a situation were literally if 2 or 3 players aren't putting the puck in the net the team has no chance most nights...That is not a formula for success.

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04-02-2013, 09:29 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Bondys Champagne View Post
It's like the fans are the Nightswatch at the wall who already know that the white walkers are back, and Lou and Pete are chilling in King's Landing and don't give a ****.

Okay, no
It has more to do with unrealistic expectations created from last year's run. Factor in the fantastic home attendance numbers and it appears the organization is almost forced to maintain the Great Lie.

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04-02-2013, 09:29 AM
  #92
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I think if Kovy gets the chance to play with Loktionov for a while... (this season, playoffs, next season) they could be a perfect match.

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04-02-2013, 09:29 AM
  #93
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I've been up in Vermont and have missed the Tampa, Florida, and Islanders games.

Sounds like its been a blessing.

Though the Bruins are the "local" team here and they get NESN, so I might not be able to avoid that impending mess.

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04-02-2013, 09:30 AM
  #94
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but CB, if Clarkson's market value exceeds his true value to this team (he is not a legit top 6 player but can excel at being a 3rd liner that surprises the opponents), why not get picks or a player (or both) back and start assembling what this lineup should be, not what it is?

Sell high, buy low. Lou has bought low in Dags and Lokti who can both be pieces moving forward. I would sell Clarkson for a good return because I don't think he's going to become a valid top 6 producer. He flashed in the pan under the right circumstances (opponents focusing on Kovy, Elias, Zajac, Henrique). Unless Lou is getting more top 6 RW talent, I don't think he'll succeed again. Honestly I think Dags is his replacement project in Lou's master plan. If Lou broke up the A-line and sold off 2/3rd of it, he can certainly part with Clarkie.

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04-02-2013, 09:32 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
but CB, if Clarkson's market value exceeds his true value to this team (he is not a legit top 6 player but can excel at being a 3rd liner that surprises the opponents), why not get picks or a player (or both) back and start assembling what this lineup should be, not what it is?

Sell high, buy low. Lou has bought low in Dags and Lokti who can both be pieces moving forward. I would sell Clarkson for a good return because I don't think he's going to become a valid top 6 producer. He flashed in the pan under the right circumstances (opponents focusing on Kovy, Elias, Zajac, Henrique). Unless Lou is getting more top 6 RW talent, I don't think he'll succeed again. Honestly I think Dags is his replacement project in Lou's master plan. If Lou broke up the A-line and sold off 2/3rd of it, he can certainly part with Clarkie.
Perhaps, perhaps... But do you think there's a GM out there that is going to give him "2nd line" return?

I call this the Scott Gomez theory. The risk of keeping him is higher than the reward of bailing.

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04-02-2013, 09:34 AM
  #96
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oh i dont want clarkson traded either, nor do i think its going to happen. i had just seen that mindset from you across a couple of posts so i was curious

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04-02-2013, 09:36 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Now that Clarkson had a solid year last year and went on a major surge at the start of the season, he is slowly shifting away from what got him that success. He doesn't hit anyone anymore, he thinks he can score everytime he touches the puck, holds on to the puck for ages, doesn't create a whole lot cause he doesn't utilise his teamates properly, etc, etc, etc...

One thing I can't stand anymore is his constant *****ing to the refs after the whistle... that and the fact that he tries to draw too many penalties by falling down on his ass as soon as he feels a little pressure. I know he's a poor skater but you can't be that weak and crack the freaking NHL, I mean c'mon now !!!
The best summary of Clarkson's game that I have seen in a good while. Agreed on all accounts.

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04-02-2013, 09:36 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
Dude, the point was he isn't making a difference. I don't know how you argue it any other way...So how did I cherry pick stats?

If I really wanted to infuriate the children I would have wrote: "Yeah that 1 even strength goal over his last 20 games is really going to help"
No one is saying he was tearing up the league, but to downplay his absence like you have is ignorant. You're better than that...

Especially on the PP and PK

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04-02-2013, 09:36 AM
  #99
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It's also clear to me Clarkson is going no where. Te fact that Deboer defended him was a joke . Clarkson made inexcusable turnovers that would get a younger player benched, yet he praises Clarkson for his play. Clakson brings nothing defensively , refuses to play a physical game , for whatever reason, and at te same time can't score . But , it's worse, not only can he not score , he kills almost any offense we have . He either goes offside, passes if to the other team or just puts a shot on net that's either blocked or right at the goalie.
It's crap like this that pisses me off with the way tedenby was treated.

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04-02-2013, 09:38 AM
  #100
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re: kovy

he shouldn’t be bringing the puck up at all IMO. let someone else do it while he gets open. I’ve come to terms that we wont see him on the down low left circle at this point, but I really don’t care. keep him on the right. keep him in outer space. as someone who has loved and watched kovy for years, his one timer is his best attribute. unlike ovi, he has other attributes as well (including rushing the puck). but really, he couldn’t be any easier for the opposition to contain doing what he is now. im in the camp that agrees that kovy isn’t going to be the difference maker- although a little rest never hurt. our issues run deeper than kovy imo.

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