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Trade Deadline: Who will we see in red? (Part 2) (MOD warning #661)

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04-02-2013, 01:30 PM
  #526
Detroit Sports
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Thomas Vanek.Right handed shot still in his 20's.Call and see what they want Kenny.

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04-02-2013, 01:34 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Every season should have a purpose. Wings have squandered this season by not seeing what Tatar and Nyquist can do with a full season of NHL experience.

Smith getting a full season under his belt should pay dividends next season.

Progress can be made without winning. Unfortunately this season is shaping up to be a total waste of time.

What have we learned this year?

We already knew the Wings were a playoff team with Z/Dats and some veterans. We already knew this team wasn't good enough to contend for a cup before the season started. Yet Holland did nothing and kept the band together.
This is pretty much it. The Wings can have down years, I have no problem with that, I just want to see progress towards building a great team. Playing Cleary, signing Samuelsson, signing Colaiacovo, not playing Nyquist & Tatar this year, not playing Smith last year all equate to this team going backwards.

This team still needs to get faster, bigger and tougher to play against before it can start to go out and make deadline acquisitions to put it into contender status.

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04-02-2013, 01:41 PM
  #528
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Question for everyone: Is there any justification for not trading White?

1. Jordon Leopold being traded for a 2nd rounder proves there's a market for ****** defenseman.
2. He's been sat in favor of the likes of Smith and Lashoff variably throughout the season, so he's not a make-or-break player.
3. He has no future on this team next year (Kronwall, E, Quincey, Kindl, Cola, Smith, DeKeyser, Lashoff)
4. There are teams reportedly still interested in picking up a defenseman. (AFAIK, San Jose, NYR, Toronto, and Boston)


I'd like to hear some sound, convincing logic so as to keep myself from losing my cool if he isn't traded in the next 24 hours.

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04-02-2013, 01:42 PM
  #529
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i didnt insinuate that i meant just now . but yes, after seeing him go to the beanboys for as cheap as he did, i am saddened. he could have been a huge help for this and next year.
Rather have Jagr over mono-bert

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04-02-2013, 01:44 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Question for everyone: Is there any justification for not trading White?

1. Jordon Leopold being traded for a 2nd rounder proves there's a market for ****** defenseman.
2. He's been sat in favor of the likes of Smith and Lashoff variably throughout the season, so he's not a make-or-break player.
3. He has no future on this team next year (Kronwall, E, Quincey, Kindl, Cola, Smith, DeKeyser, Lashoff)
4. There are teams reportedly still interested in picking up a defenseman. (AFAIK, San Jose, NYR, Toronto, and Boston)


I'd like to hear some sound, convincing logic so as to keep myself from losing my cool if he isn't traded in the next 24 hours.
There is no logical reason to keep White.

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04-02-2013, 01:44 PM
  #531
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Nothing is going to happen tomorrow for the Wings. Holland continues to boggle the mind and this offseason we'll see more of the same with Cleary re-signing and Howard getting north fo 5m per year. Yikes.

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04-02-2013, 01:45 PM
  #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Question for everyone: Is there any justification for not trading White?

1. Jordon Leopold being traded for a 2nd rounder proves there's a market for ****** defenseman.
2. He's been sat in favor of the likes of Smith and Lashoff variably throughout the season, so he's not a make-or-break player.
3. He has no future on this team next year (Kronwall, E, Quincey, Kindl, Cola, Smith, DeKeyser, Lashoff)
4. There are teams reportedly still interested in picking up a defenseman. (AFAIK, San Jose, NYR, Toronto, and Boston)


I'd like to hear some sound, convincing logic so as to keep myself from losing my cool if he isn't traded in the next 24 hours.
No justification at all. Sadly, we know Kenny won't move him.

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04-02-2013, 01:46 PM
  #533
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Nothing is going to happen tomorrow for the Wings. Holland continues to boggle the mind and this offseason we'll see more of the same with Cleary re-signing and Howard getting north fo 5m per year. Yikes.
if so he should be fired on the spot

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04-02-2013, 01:48 PM
  #534
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if so he should be fired on the spot
Holland will never be fired.

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04-02-2013, 01:48 PM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Question for everyone: Is there any justification for not trading White?

1. Jordon Leopold being traded for a 2nd rounder proves there's a market for ****** defenseman.
2. He's been sat in favor of the likes of Smith and Lashoff variably throughout the season, so he's not a make-or-break player.
3. He has no future on this team next year (Kronwall, E, Quincey, Kindl, Cola, Smith, DeKeyser, Lashoff)
4. There are teams reportedly still interested in picking up a defenseman. (AFAIK, San Jose, NYR, Toronto, and Boston)


I'd like to hear some sound, convincing logic so as to keep myself from losing my cool if he isn't traded in the next 24 hours.
That they keep and sign him because he's our only righty, and trade someone else(Cola, Q) instead. Otherwise no.

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04-02-2013, 01:49 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Nothing is going to happen tomorrow for the Wings. Holland continues to boggle the mind and this offseason we'll see more of the same with Cleary re-signing and Howard getting north fo 5m per year. Yikes.
Yeah you right, If fact I would be surprised If Holland caves In and give Filppula his $5+ million that he's seeking also. Especially If Dats leaves after next season.

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Old
04-02-2013, 01:54 PM
  #537
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But I don't see that happening. We lost Hudler this offseason and who did we replace him with? Samuelsson? If we trade Filppula it will only push Cleary back into the top 6.

That's why I don't want to trade Filppula for more picks and prospects that won't be around for 5-7 years. I don't think this team is that far away from contending.
I disagree. That assumes that the Red Wings status quo isn't going to shift.

If the Wings DO go into "firesale" mode, Holland will be doing so with the knowledge that Helm, Samuelsson, and Bertuzzi are likely not coming back at all this season, and if they do, they aren't going be making contributions. He's already deviated from his "returning injured players will be our acquisitions" schtick because those guys, in fact, likely aren't returning.

So if we DO go into firesale mode, it'll effectively be leaving the team without Filppula, Samuelsson, Helm, Bertuzzi, Miller, and White down the stretch. Possibly Zetterberg too. That's a big transition. And with that big of a transition, the message is clearly "let the kids play."

As for not wanting to trade Filppula for more picks and prospects that "won't be around for 5-7 years," that also assumes the Wings status quo won't shift. IMO, the point of trading Filppula for picks - and all the other guys as well - isn't to stockpile assets for the next 5-7 years, but instead to make a trade for roster players that might be available in the future, the likes of which we've never been comfortable trading for before because we couldn't sacrifice the assets.

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04-02-2013, 01:56 PM
  #538
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With the salary cap contraction, I don't think any team will pay Filppula near $5M/season. Holland will allow him to test the open market, and he'll then have to decide to take the Wings last offer and stay here, or sign elsewhere for the same money the Wings offered.

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Old
04-02-2013, 01:58 PM
  #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I disagree. That assumes that the Red Wings status quo isn't going to shift.

If the Wings DO go into "firesale" mode, Holland will be doing so with the knowledge that Helm, Samuelsson, and Bertuzzi are likely not coming back at all this season, and if they do, they aren't going be making contributions. He's already deviated from his "returning injured players will be our acquisitions" schtick because those guys, in fact, likely aren't returning.

So if we DO go into firesale mode, it'll effectively be leaving the team without Filppula, Samuelsson, Helm, Bertuzzi, Miller, and White down the stretch. Possibly Zetterberg too. That's a big transition. And with that big of a transition, the message is clearly "let the kids play."

As for not wanting to trade Filppula for more picks and prospects that "won't be around for 5-7 years," that also assumes the Wings status quo won't shift. IMO, the point of trading Filppula for picks - and all the other guys as well - isn't to stockpile assets for the next 5-7 years, but instead to make a trade for roster players that might be available in the future, the likes of which we've never been comfortable trading for before because we couldn't sacrifice the assets.
What gives you any impression that the Wings status quo will shift? Nothing has changed in a decade - nothing will change as long as Holland is the GM. Yes we shifted from pre-cap to post-cap - but we're still in a capped league and Holland has let players leave and retire while showing zero urgency in signing players, trading players or making any roster shakeups. This team would need to miss the playoffs for multiple years before any status quo shifts.

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Old
04-02-2013, 01:59 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Yeah you right, If fact I would be surprised If Holland caves In and give Filppula his $5+ million that he's seeking also. Especially If Dats leaves after next season.
This is why I've been pushing for him be traded. If he isn't, I expect Holland to panic and give in to his demands.

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04-02-2013, 02:04 PM
  #541
detredWINgs
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What gives you any impression that the Wings status quo will shift? Nothing has changed in a decade - nothing will change as long as Holland is the GM. Yes we shifted from pre-cap to post-cap - but we're still in a capped league and Holland has let players leave and retire while showing zero urgency in signing players, trading players or making any roster shakeups. This team would need to miss the playoffs for multiple years before any status quo shifts.
What makes you think that it won't?

You say the team would need to miss the playoffs for "multiple years" before the status quo shifts, but we've in fact never even missed the playoffs with this group of Wings management.

We've also never in a position where there wasn't an heir apparent to our aging stars.

We've also never been in a position where we've spent so much time "on the bubble."

We've also never been in a position where we'd seen what this team looks like over a long stretch of time without Lidstrom.

The circumstances weigh heavily in favor of a shift.

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04-02-2013, 02:07 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Question for everyone: Is there any justification for not trading White?

1. Jordon Leopold being traded for a 2nd rounder proves there's a market for ****** defenseman.
2. He's been sat in favor of the likes of Smith and Lashoff variably throughout the season, so he's not a make-or-break player.
3. He has no future on this team next year (Kronwall, E, Quincey, Kindl, Cola, Smith, DeKeyser, Lashoff)
4. There are teams reportedly still interested in picking up a defenseman. (AFAIK, San Jose, NYR, Toronto, and Boston)


I'd like to hear some sound, convincing logic so as to keep myself from losing my cool if he isn't traded in the next 24 hours.
Just to play Devil's Advocate here:

1) We don't know how long CC will be in the lineup, if he gets hurt we'll have to go with 4 inexperienced rookies in the lineup until Quincey is back.
2) Quincey is still hurt they say 2-3 weeks but who knows, somebody else could get hurt, they may want a veteran,calming presence on the blueline
3) White is going to be staying here we're shopping Kindl/Quincey/Smith instead
4) Depth is great to have and depth wins championships. Let's pretend that we didn't have all of our defensive depth earlier this year. We'd have had Almqvist in the lineup.
5) Nobody is willing to give up a 2nd for White.

For me I'd rather we hold onto White if nobody is offering us at least a 2nd, he's a serviceable guy and hasn't played too badly recently. He gives us depth on the backend if injuries hit and we know we can up his minutes if we have to.

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04-02-2013, 02:10 PM
  #543
Heaton
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
What makes you think that it won't?

You say the team would need to miss the playoffs for "multiple years" before the status quo shifts, but we've in fact never even missed the playoffs with this group of Wings management.

We've also never in a position where there wasn't an heir apparent to our aging stars.

We've also never been in a position where we've spent so much time "on the bubble."

We've also never been in a position where we'd seen what this team looks like over a long stretch of time without Lidstrom.

The circumstances weigh heavily in favor of a shift.
When that happens let me know, because as of right now - we're not going to make any trades. We're not going to make any room for Tatar or Nyqusit and we're going to bring back the exact same team with a few players on inflated contracts.

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Old
04-02-2013, 02:21 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
There is no logical reason to keep White.
The problem isn't the fact we don't have good trade options (both coming and going), the problem is Holland doesn't like the prices. This is the reason the Wings haven't landed anyone significant in the past few years. I honestly don't see Holland's mindset changing anytime soon... including over this summer. Get used to it.

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04-02-2013, 02:22 PM
  #545
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Holland will never be fired.
His previous good work has banked him so much good will/benefit of the doubt, that short of Holland streaking across the ice naked during a game and beating Datsyuk with a stick, he will never be fired.

Only way Holland goes is if he quits.

The hockey journalists aren't doing us any favors either. Every article regarding the Wings always has some kind of superlative explaining just how great a GM Ken Holland is.

The guy did great work and i appreciate it, but his style of GMing is outdated and doesnt fit in today's NHL.

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04-02-2013, 02:33 PM
  #546
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I think this may have been posted earlier, but if we were to ship the likes of Cleary, White, Eaves, etc. and play some of the younger guys would this team really be any worse off? I like what I've seen from the young guys in Andersson, Tatar, Nyquist and so on and really don't think there would be much fall off. Hell it might even bring some energy to this team. I still think we are a playoff team even if we ship out some of the vets.

I don't think we should be buying right now as I'm a bit worried about what the cap drop will do to teams and we are more than a few pieces away from contending for a cup.

I think the majority of us agree we need to ship out some of our depth vets for whatever we can get. Prices are always high at the deadline.

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04-02-2013, 02:33 PM
  #547
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I told you guys a couple pages back, Sammie back for a few games, Helm will skate for a half period and bert will shoot up and play at half of him self. Kenny will tell us all it was like making a trade getting them back. but it did not work out. he kicked some tires but nothing to good out there. let the kids rot and do nothing, is his new way of doing things we all know it is not going to work.

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04-02-2013, 02:35 PM
  #548
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The problem isn't the fact we don't have good trade options (both coming and going), the problem is Holland doesn't like the prices. This is the reason the Wings haven't landed anyone significant in the past few years. I honestly don't see Holland's mindset changing anytime soon... including over this summer. Get used to it.
so accept a mediocre team forever? The prices are the prices.

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04-02-2013, 02:41 PM
  #549
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Just fire Holland and Babcock. Both running this team and organization into the ground.

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04-02-2013, 02:42 PM
  #550
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This is looking like it will be another underwhelming/disappointing trade deadline and off season and we will again be a few pieces short of a contender going in to next year. All hail Ken Holland...King of the Optimists!

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