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Gardiner and 2013 1st for Flyers 2013 1st+?

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Old
04-02-2013, 05:51 PM
  #76
david999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTopCheese View Post
If you're using stats to try and eliminate Coot's value then it's fairly obvious that you never watch Flyers games or know anything about how he's been used.
The same can be said about your knowledge of Toronto players if you think the Leafs would trade Gardner +Toronto's 1st for Philly's 1st+ something. I think the Leafs have an idea that Gardner can be someone special as an offensive defenseman. I also believe that Couturier is a nice player with good size and defensive skills. However, I would always take an offensive gifted player and try to teach them defense than vice versa.

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04-02-2013, 05:54 PM
  #77
JayRosehillforMVP
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Becausepoint production is the only way to measure a player's worth, amiright?

I mean, focusing on defensive play while still being productive helps the Kings better then players who goes all out offensively and still ends up losing most games they skate into....
Your trying to say we didn't get fair value, which is half true. The trades are heavily lopsided in our favor long term. Right now Richards and Carter are better, but nobodies disagreeing with you there....
Don't really see what point your trying to make. The defensive play argument can be used for Grossman as well.

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04-02-2013, 05:55 PM
  #78
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Smooth skating offensive defencemen don't grow on trees.
And neither do two-way centres with size.

Both similar ceilings, I don't see why a one to one swap isn't reasonable?

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04-02-2013, 05:55 PM
  #79
Deuce Awesome
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Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
It wasn't meant to be hostile at all.

I really think luke now that he is maturing would be good with phaneuf. He's a defensive oriented player that is very physical which Carlyle would like and he's right handed and young enough to grow with the leafs current core.
Something happened with Luke while he was here. His first season he was going to be our cornerstone, untouchable defenceman for ten years.

After that it was a steady decline. My old man thinks it was getting rid of Beauch that really hurt his play. Him and Phaneuf who came over at the same time Beach was dealt just never really worked.

I think the pressure may have got to him and he was trying to do to much, when a stay at home defenceman needs to keep his game simple.

I hope he works out in Philly where he will be under (slightly) less pressure to live up to his draft position. Always liked Luke.

Could have been worse, we could have drafted MPS which half of this forum wanted on draft day.

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04-02-2013, 05:56 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
Is it just me or do the Leafs fans sour very quickly on their anointed future top pairing dmen? Aulie, Schenn, and now maybe Gardiner.
Aulie was never anointed a future top pairing dman

Schenn looked good for one season but his skating and mobility would always keep him from being a top pairing guy.

Gardiner has the potential if he can play better in his own end but that remains to be seen. I still think he's a good top 4 that will QB your PP.

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04-02-2013, 05:57 PM
  #81
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Richards and Carter being here would not fix the problems on defense and Couturier's production is being hurt by the coach playing him on the third or fourth line, away from Schenn, Simmonds and Voracek.

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04-02-2013, 05:57 PM
  #82
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Personally I think Gardiner and Couturier is much closer in value than Luke Schenn and JVR ever was.

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04-02-2013, 05:58 PM
  #83
AlMo
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Originally Posted by Deuce Awesome View Post
Something happened with Luke while he was here. His first season he was going to be our cornerstone, untouchable defenceman for ten years.

After that it was a steady decline. My old man thinks it was getting rid of Beauch that really hurt his play. Him and Phaneuf who came over at the same time Beach was dealt just never really worked.

I think the pressure may have got to him and he was trying to do to much, when a stay at home defenceman needs to keep his game simple.

I hope he works out in Philly where he will be under (slightly) less pressure to live up to his draft position. Always liked Luke.

Could have been worse, we could have drafted MPS which half of this forum wanted on draft day.
I think you mean Filatov and you never how things would have worked out for him in Toronto

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04-02-2013, 06:01 PM
  #84
JayRosehillforMVP
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Originally Posted by david999 View Post
The same can be said about your knowledge of Toronto players if you think the Leafs would trade Gardner +Toronto's 1st for Philly's 1st+ something. I think the Leafs have an idea that Gardner can be someone special as an offensive defenseman. I also believe that Couturier is a nice player with good size and defensive skills. However, I would always take an offensive gifted player and try to teach them defense than vice versa.

See, you don't know anything about Couturier if you think he doesn't have offensive skill. Best QMJHL PPG stats since Crosby, if I'm not mistaken. Your arguments pretty hypocritical.

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04-02-2013, 06:08 PM
  #85
nidnus13
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Originally Posted by Flyers7 View Post
This is assuming Flyers first is a top 5 pick. Just an idea. I'd definitely be willing to add a bit, just wondering what could make this fair value.
LOL maaaaaaaaaaaaaan

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04-02-2013, 06:08 PM
  #86
EucaLEAFtys
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Originally Posted by Canada4Gold View Post
If we can get Barkov or Mackinnon with the pick we trade for you do that trade.

We have good d prospects, we can afford to trade Gardiner if we can get a good center in the draft.

Barkov or Mackinnon is more valuable to us than Gardiner and whoever we draft with out 15-30 overall pick.
Sorry.. you only consider such a move AFTER the draft positions have been determined, not when the season is stilll in flux It's not a given that the Flyers are going to finish high enough to draft the likes of Barkow or MacKinnon, so there's no reason for the Leafs to take such a risk.

The Leafs' defensive prospects aren't, IMO, as good as you seem to think they are. There's a lot of quantity in the system, and very little of that quantity is high-quality talent. Moving Gardiner only serves to unnecessarily deplete an area which the Leafs still have major issues that need to be addressed.

If the Leafs need to move a defensive prospect, they'd be beeter off moving out guys like Percy, Finn, or whomever else sits below Blacker on the defenceman depth chart.

Because this summer's draft is so deep, the Leafs still have a very good chance to draft a high-quality prospect, so moving that pick is also not a smart idea at this point in time.

We have a pretty good idea as to how good Gardiner can be; why move him out so quickly?

Have a little patience.

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04-02-2013, 06:15 PM
  #87
Canada4Gold
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Sorry.. you only consider such a move AFTER the draft positions have been determined, not when the season is stilll in flux It's not a given that the Flyers are going to finish high enough to draft the likes of Barkow or MacKinnon, so there's no reason for the Leafs to take such a risk.

The Leafs' defensive prospects aren't, IMO, as good as you seem to think they are. There's a lot of quantity in the system, and very little of that quantity is high-quality talent. Moving Gardiner only serves to unnecessarily deplete an area which the Leafs still have major issues that need to be addressed.

If the Leafs need to move a defensive prospect, they'd be beeter off moving out guys like Percy, Finn, or whomever else sits below Blacker on the defenceman depth chart.

Because this summer's draft is so deep, the Leafs still have a very good chance to draft a high-quality prospect, so moving that pick is also not a smart idea at this point in time.

We have a pretty good idea as to how good Gardiner can be; why move him out so quickly?

Have a little patience.
That's what I mean. Make that trade at the draft.

I said earlier in the thread if we can get a good center at that pick then you do it but only right before that pick comes up so we know what we're gonna get.

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04-02-2013, 06:19 PM
  #88
Deuce Awesome
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Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
I think you mean Filatov and you never how things would have worked out for him in Toronto
Oh yeah, MPS was Kadri's year then.....

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04-02-2013, 06:23 PM
  #89
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If I were the flyers I wouldn't even consider Couturier for Gardiner. The plus would have to be significant imo.

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04-02-2013, 06:31 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Canada4Gold View Post
That's what I mean. Make that trade at the draft.

I said earlier in the thread if we can get a good center at that pick then you do it but only right before that pick comes up so we know what we're gonna get.
Sorry.. my bad on that. I guess I didn't quite get that impression when I posted my comment.

I still believe, thogh, that moving out a top defensive prospect like Gardiner is a bad idea as he's so early into his NHL career. Better to move him only when it becomes absolutely necessary (since guys like him don't come the Leafs' way all that often).

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04-02-2013, 07:06 PM
  #91
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Originally Posted by Deuce Awesome View Post
Something happened with Luke while he was here. His first season he was going to be our cornerstone, untouchable defenceman for ten years.

After that it was a steady decline. My old man thinks it was getting rid of Beauch that really hurt his play. Him and Phaneuf who came over at the same time Beach was dealt just never really worked.

I think the pressure may have got to him and he was trying to do to much, when a stay at home defenceman needs to keep his game simple.

I hope he works out in Philly where he will be under (slightly) less pressure to live up to his draft position. Always liked Luke.

Could have been worse, we could have drafted MPS which half of this forum wanted on draft day.
The media made it too difficult to play. Once they asked him to apologize to all the fans who spend $400 to come watch the Maple Leafs lose, ect, all while the kid was 20 years old. The pressure was too great in Toronto and maybe he was brought along to quickly. He had a great rookie season then a steady decline

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04-02-2013, 07:09 PM
  #92
david999
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Originally Posted by Flyers7 View Post
See, you don't know anything about Couturier if you think he doesn't have offensive skill. Best QMJHL PPG stats since Crosby, if I'm not mistaken. Your arguments pretty hypocritical.
Ha ha, you think because a player has good statistics in the Q, that projects him to be an offensive dynamo in the NHL?

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04-02-2013, 07:13 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by david999 View Post
The same can be said about your knowledge of Toronto players if you think the Leafs would trade Gardner +Toronto's 1st for Philly's 1st+ something. I think the Leafs have an idea that Gardner can be someone special as an offensive defenseman. I also believe that Couturier is a nice player with good size and defensive skills. However, I would always take an offensive gifted player and try to teach them defense than vice versa.
Considering I never said anything about Gardiner in this thread in the first place...

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04-02-2013, 07:17 PM
  #94
Bernier the Boats
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If Monahan is available at the pick then sure. Flyers don't need him anyways.

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04-02-2013, 07:31 PM
  #95
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Gardiner for Couturier swap is much more even than Schenn for JVR was. And it's a trade that makes sense for both teams. Leafs have Rielly coming up next year but are still missing a #1C potential forward (other than Kadri).

JVR - Couturier - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Kulemin

Rielly - Phaneuf

Flyers get a young smooth skating offensively minded dman with top pairing potential. Which they definitely lack.

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