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"We stink for You"

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Old
12-25-2003, 12:57 PM
  #1
creative giant*
 
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"We stink for You"

Ok, so the oilers stick this year. Normally this would send me into a frantic circle with no lack of hand waving and mindless blubbering.

But this year is different. I said at the beginning of the year if the oilers aren't going to challange for the cup (and they aren't), then this is the year to stink it up, calgary style.

With the chance of not one, but TWO decent picks should the oilers freefall into such a scenario, and the NHL being closed for business next season, what better than to tank and land 2 pro-rated players?

I want to conclude by saying I don't hate the oilers, and that I know should they suck this year, fan-based revenue will slow, but I think its time for the oilers to "pull a pittsburgh" this year

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12-25-2003, 01:06 PM
  #2
Mizral
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Here's the problem with this attitude:

What if the CBA gets hammered out, but it's not exactly what the NHL is hoping for? There is no salary cap, but a luxery tax in and around $40 million, UFA age moves down, etc..

If the CBA isn't perfectly rosey (which I'm betting it won't be) for the teams, Edmonton cannot afford to tank a season and risk losing their franchise due to a lack of attendance.

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12-25-2003, 01:09 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creative giant
With the chance of not one, but TWO decent picks should the oilers freefall into such a scenario, and the NHL being closed for business next season, what better than to tank and land 2 pro-rated players?
I'm not sure why you say two decent picks - how Edmonton does has no bearing on where their pick from Philly is. Unless you mean two first round picks is decent - but again, why tank cos the second one's not going to change regardless of how they play.

Personally, I want to see the Oilers ice the best team possible and play their best, every single game. That's what I pay them for. I don't care if they could have a chance at winning the lottery and drafting Wayne Gretzky's clone next June, I don't want to see them deliberately tank it. That would be utterly unprofessional, and they'd lose me as a fan forever. (Not that the Oilers would miss lil ol kraigus much, I'm sure, but it's the principle of the thing, dernit. )

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12-25-2003, 01:23 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigus
Personally, I want to see the Oilers ice the best team possible and play their best, every single game. That's what I pay them for. I don't care if they could have a chance at winning the lottery and drafting Wayne Gretzky's clone next June, I don't want to see them deliberately tank it. That would be utterly unprofessional, and they'd lose me as a fan forever. (Not that the Oilers would miss lil ol kraigus much, I'm sure, but it's the principle of the thing, dernit. )
there's a difference between losing on purpose (throwing games) and giving yourself the best chance at future success. I'm sure everyone is advocating the latter, and not scoring on their own net on purpose, etc.

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Old
12-25-2003, 01:33 PM
  #5
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I am torn on this. Anyone who gets to an oiler playoff game understands the electricity in the whole city. It isn't something I want to miss. On the other hand, Lowe is building for post 2004 and he should be focussed on that goal.


If we are winless in the next 4-5 games, we are pretty much out of it and Lowe should consider a full scale rebuild. I think we will know a lot ofater the next 5 vs minny, cal, and van.

 
Old
12-25-2003, 01:49 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigus
I'm not sure why you say two decent picks - how Edmonton does has no bearing on where their pick from Philly is. Unless you mean two first round picks is decent - but again, why tank cos the second one's not going to change regardless of how they play.
I mean that from next year;s draft and the year after (given there's no hockey next year to rearrange the pick order)

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Old
12-25-2003, 02:24 PM
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maybe they really really want ovechkin lol

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Old
12-25-2003, 05:09 PM
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Mizral, despite how poorly we're doing, we've still sold out 13 of 18 games. Games we didn't sell out are Buffalo, Columbus, Minnesota and Carolina. So attendance is not the issue.

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12-25-2003, 06:31 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#2
maybe they really really want ovechkin lol
I've said this many times, but I'll say it again:

Ovechkin will most likely go to a team like Chicago, but mark my words - it'll be at least 3 years before you can say he turns the franchise around.

Ovechkin is a very good prospect, but Mario Lemieux he is not. I compare him to a Joe Sakic-type player. Top level star player, but he is not the best prospect to have come down the pike. Yes, he is a #1 overall pick, but he's not much further ahead than most #1 picks.

Can Edmonton fans live through 3 more 'struggle to make the playoffs' seasons? I don't think Lowe can. I think he's got to make the playoffs his goal, and to his credit, he's said as much in recent interviews.

It sounds nice on paper - tank a couple seasons, get good draft picks, and then rocket up the charts. Fact is, it rarely, rarely happens. Ottawa did it, yes, but notice many others weren't able to. Tampa had Hamrlik, Gratton, Langkow, and a few others in top picks but weren't able to climb into respectability until over 10 years after their Hamrlik pick. The Leafs had tons of sweet picks in the late 80's, early 90's, didn't help 'em much. The Oilers are a good example during the mid 90's, as are my lowly Canucks through the dog days (although they did get one big-time top pick in Linden, that's about it).

The Sens took almost 10 years to become Stanley Cup Contenders when drafting, almost all those years, in the top 15 of the draft. Many of those years were in the top 10 or top 5 too. I don't think the Oilers can take that long to build a winner, nor can they risk another rebuilding effort.

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Old
12-25-2003, 07:39 PM
  #10
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Ah yes I see what you're saying. If the Oilers become a bottom feeder then I agree of course attendance will drop. No one wants to pay good money to watch a stinker. I guess Edmonton fans have been too spoiled.

I know we have the talent to do alot better, I don't know what the problem is. Some say coaching, others blame goaltending...*sigh*

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12-25-2003, 10:00 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskyfan
Ah yes I see what you're saying. If the Oilers become a bottom feeder then I agree of course attendance will drop. No one wants to pay good money to watch a stinker. I guess Edmonton fans have been too spoiled.

I know we have the talent to do alot better, I don't know what the problem is. Some say coaching, others blame goaltending...*sigh*
I blame all three Talent, coaching, and goaltending!

That said, I do think the Oilers do have a bright future, compared to where they are now. I think they will be, at worst, another bubble team, and at best, a top end bubble team. This could change drastically with one simple aquisition. One simple aquisition would restore my faith in Kevin Lowe completely, and pretty much let me say quite honestly that I like the future the Oilers are heading in.

What's that aquisition?

A goaltender.

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Old
12-25-2003, 11:51 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
A goaltender.
A goaltender would be great.. unfortunately, we're paying one $4 million already. There is absolutely no way to move Salo and thus how do expect Lowe to acquire another quality goalie? Conklin will be picked up on waivers if he is shipped down to the AHL and it is 100% impossible for a franchise like Edmonton to pay a player $4 million to sit on the bench somewhere. There are a few moves I can see Lowe making that would make me happy but acquiring a new goaltender is definitely not in the cards..

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Old
12-26-2003, 09:27 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creative giant
But this year is different. I said at the beginning of the year if the oilers aren't going to challange for the cup (and they aren't), then this is the year to stink it up, calgary style.
heh. Personally, I hope the Oilers do stink it up, "Calgary style", as you say. You were so desperate to plant the cheapshot, you completely missed how you make yourself look like a fool.

Yeah, play like Calgary did the last several years. Bad enough to miss the playoffs seven straight years, but good enough to usually end up drafting only 9th-14th.

Never getting the top players. And given how poor Lowe has handled player transactions, likely to never find that diamond in the rough.

Yeah, suck like the Flames did for seven years. Brilliant plan.

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Old
12-26-2003, 10:19 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeeye
heh. Personally, I hope the Oilers do stink it up, "Calgary style", as you say. You were so desperate to plant the cheapshot, you completely missed how you make yourself look like a fool.

Yeah, play like Calgary did the last several years. Bad enough to miss the playoffs seven straight years, but good enough to usually end up drafting only 9th-14th.

Never getting the top players. And given how poor Lowe has handled player transactions, likely to never find that diamond in the rough.

Yeah, suck like the Flames did for seven years. Brilliant plan.
So you're saying Dion Phaneuf is not a good hockey player? Edmonton tried to trade up for him, but only calgary, with their higher pick could get him. I'm sorry to have taken a shot at your flamers, but you might have to re-evaluate who's the fool if you're going to say calgary never had the chance to get top end players, because did they ever have a chance, with the likes of justin williams, barret jackman, martin havlat, alex tanguay, and simon gagne still available when the lames had their pick, dating back to the 98 draft.

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Old
12-26-2003, 01:28 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
there's a difference between losing on purpose (throwing games) and giving yourself the best chance at future success. I'm sure everyone is advocating the latter, and not scoring on their own net on purpose, etc.
It sounded to me like the advocation was to prefer losing over winning, not necessarily scoring into one's own net. Either way, it's pretty distasteful to me. By all means, let rooks play over vets, but I'll be upset if any of them last long on the top 2 lines without producing any more than the vets were, f'rinstance.

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12-26-2003, 02:43 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigus
It sounded to me like the advocation was to prefer losing over winning, not necessarily scoring into one's own net. Either way, it's pretty distasteful to me. By all means, let rooks play over vets, but I'll be upset if any of them last long on the top 2 lines without producing any more than the vets were, f'rinstance.
I would prefer to spend this year developing the young talent. I would expect that would mean that you would lose more games than if they keep the current lineup, but that isn't necessarily so.

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Old
12-26-2003, 05:15 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
I would prefer to spend this year developing the young talent. I would expect that would mean that you would lose more games than if they keep the current lineup, but that isn't necessarily so.
It'd be pretty difficult for them to lose much more than they have been lately.

I think right now is the time to see what the *vets* are made of. The season's not beyond reach - yet. They still have another month or so. If they're still in the dumps after that, by all means, give some of the kids first or second line time.

However, the Oil would have to be careful to not fall afoul of the league bylaws (and I think some US states have actual laws about this) about not icing the most competitive team possible. Remember a few years ago when Detroit was resting vets just before the playoffs?

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12-27-2003, 10:16 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigus

I think right now is the time to see what the *vets* are made of. The season's not beyond reach - yet. They still have another month or so. If they're still in the dumps after that, by all means, give some of the kids first or second line time.
I doubt they have much better than a 20% chance of making the playoffs at this point. And the season is the next 4 games. Lose them all, and it's over IMO, barring an unbelieveable run that I doubt this team is capable of.

Quote:
However, the Oil would have to be careful to not fall afoul of the league bylaws (and I think some US states have actual laws about this) about not icing the most competitive team possible. Remember a few years ago when Detroit was resting vets just before the playoffs?
I'm not saying you don't ice your best available lineup. Just because PIT is garbage doesn't mean they are running afoul of league bylaws.

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