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Why would Pittsburgh move Malkin?

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Old
08-17-2006, 01:17 PM
  #26
Cyrrus147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viasyncro View Post
According to Eklund, it is his opinion, take it for what it's worth
Interesting nonetheless...

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=2627

Why would Pittsburgh move Malkin?

Talking to an agent who has dealt with Shero in his first year the agent said, “Shero comes from the Poile school of thought. And that school, like in Nashville, is not to build with a few superstar players, but rather several solid players. Shero already has one big superstar that will be at the max when his contract comes due. Do two 8 million dollar players worked on a team like Pitsburgh? And then you have the revenue uncertainty off new ownership and no new building yet to take into account. And you also have a team that needs lots of help depth-wise.”

Why would Montreal move all those players for Malkin?

I’ve been talking to some French-Canadian players over the summer. Everyone assumes that they would love to play for the Habs, and although they do there is also an intense pressure on them. One theory is that there has not been a “Superstar” on the Habs since Patrick Roy, and before that Guy LaFleur. Because of the environment in Montreal, the feeling is that the team has lacked that one identity that could shield the other players and allow them to perform at a solid level. Koivu and Kovalev aren’t “that guy.” So now, every kid, especially every French Canadian kid is look at to be “that guy.” The Montreal fans are dying for a star, and once they get a star, the others Habs will immediately become better. Malkin fits this spot perfectly and with all of the uncertainty in Pittsburgh it would not be surprising at all if Montreal is pursuing this.

Will Pittsburgh move him?

I certainly can’t say that I have heard they will. I did hear last year at one point that they put out feelers at one point, and realized that there was a bidding war to be had of “Lidrosesque” proportions…and when the Nordiques traded Lindros they were in a very similar spot to where the Pens are now. They had a star in Sakic and needed depth. They got a lot in that trade from the Flyers including Stanley Cups. It was the defining moment of that franchise. Would they have done that move had Eric not refused to play? Nope. Would they have won the Cups in Colorado? Nope. Would they have moved to Colorado if Lindros would have come right in and played for them? No one really knows that answer…

So should Pittsburgh move Malkin?

I guess if you look at Quebec and Lindros you’d have to say yes. But that assumes a lot as well. And Lindros is such a hot button topic anyway. Should the Flyers have made the trade? I still say they had to. Eric was “the next one.” And in Philly we had gone a long time since having our Bobby Clarke’s and Bernie Parent’s. The Flyers that got Lindros were a lot like the Habs of today. So I can see why both teams have to be thinking about this…Also, the trade would free up the cap space to sign Dumont in Montreal. That scenario didn’t exist way back when.
WoW I can't believe that Eklund wrote something who has sense!

But if that trade happen, the habs will need to add a few prospect.

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08-17-2006, 01:21 PM
  #27
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i wonder if andre savard and therrien would have any input or be seeking some of our guys ? andre and mike would know
ryder ribs souray all very well would they not ?

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08-17-2006, 01:26 PM
  #28
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I just think it's funny that Eklund seems to think that the whole deal revolves around bringing JP Dumont to Montreal. Some of his points make sense, like the $16m cap hit for 2 players coming up, but I don't see why they'd trade him now, and not in a year or two if everyone's so confident about his ability.

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08-17-2006, 01:31 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I just think it's funny that Eklund seems to think that the whole deal revolves around bringing JP Dumont to Montreal. Some of his points make sense, like the $16m cap hit for 2 players coming up, but I don't see why they'd trade him now, and not in a year or two if everyone's so confident about his ability.
Again, not saying I believe this rumor for one second, but if we are looking for an explanation as to why Pitt would trade Malkin, perhaphs there is something they know that the rest of us don't. Maybe they have had some indication from Malkin or his agent that he will not sign with the Penguins. It's a strectch I know, but it does give an answer to the 'why' of this whole thing.

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08-17-2006, 01:33 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I just think it's funny that Eklund seems to think that the whole deal revolves around bringing JP Dumont to Montreal. Some of his points make sense, like the $16m cap hit for 2 players coming up, but I don't see why they'd trade him now, and not in a year or two if everyone's so confident about his ability.
The fact is everybody is confident about his ability now. In a couple of years his contract will be about to get a lot bigger so his value will not be higher. Case and point check out what Jagr was traded for when he left Pittsburg.

Pittsburgh Penguins traded Jaromir Jagr and Frantisek Kucera to the Washington Capitals for Kris Beech, Michal Sivek and Ross Lupaschuk and future considerations.

If Pittsburg is going to trade Malkin they will likely get the best value now. Especially in the salary cap world.

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08-17-2006, 01:35 PM
  #31
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I won't comment the rumour... its too much for me.

However, the huge cap hits/salaries that Crosby and Malkin will require are not all the Penguins will have to worry about. There is also Fleury and possibly Staal in the not too distant future. Their budget could be more tied up in a few players than Tampa should they choose to keep everyone.

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08-17-2006, 01:39 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
I won't comment the rumour... its too much for me.

However, the huge cap hits/salaries that Crosby and Malkin will require are not all the Penguins will have to worry about. There is also Fleury and possibly Staal in the not too distant future. Their budget could be more tied up in a few players than Tampa should they choose to keep everyone.


everyone forgets that . you make a good point . after 4 years all these young kids have Arbitration rights.


now crosby will get the max and he only has to wait another 3 years to get it .

if maklin is as good they say he will get the max in 4 years

Marc-Andre Flurey ? another few years away yet

within 4 years time you have

maklin 8.5 -12 million
crosby 8.5 -12 million
flurey 5 - 7 million



i guess its possible they could have 29 million rapped up in 3 players ... in a cap world how many can you afford ?


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08-17-2006, 01:48 PM
  #33
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Not only value wise...

We shouldn't only look at the deal value wise, but at what the "seeked" players would bring to Pittsburg.
If you go mathematic like Ribeiro + Ryder + Souray + Aebischer + 1st rounder.
The results won't be the same as if you take into consideration what they'd bring to the team.
Ribeiro would bring inssurance policies down the middle until some of their prospects pan out. Not much value, be still valuable as a sort of rental and while the Pens are building around Crosby.
Ryder we may knock for whatever reason, but he's still scoring goals, playing despite being injured. What if the Pens management believes he's a guaranteed 45-50 goals scorer with Crosby centering him ?
With Souray, they wouldn't just get a big shot from the point, but lots of character. The younger defensemen could look up to him, albeit some brain cramps. And you'd touch Crosby with him around logging big minutes ? He'd be very much more valuable to them than he is to us, and I think he's pretty valuable to us.
Aebischer's still a very capable #1 that doesn't cost to must. Again, he'd be valuable taking a load of the young star netminder Fleury.
A 1st rounder is always something to have.

The Pens would instantly get better. Instantly. They'd also developp better by surrounding their young players with proven players.

Would I trade Malkin ? No, but I'm a Russian wannabe. Do I believe it will happen ? Never.
But if you analyse what they get beyond players-by-value only, they'd get alot.

I'd be interested to know realistically, what other teams could offer that'd give the Pens what we're giving ?

Anyway, edit the Pens lines with our "rumoured" offer and without, they're better off with some of our core players than Malkin, at least the first year, and developpment wise they're way better.

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08-17-2006, 02:07 PM
  #34
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They're talking about this rumour tonight at 110%...

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08-17-2006, 02:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Komi#1 View Post
They're talking about this rumour tonight at 110%...
here come the laughs

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08-17-2006, 04:43 PM
  #36
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If this makes such wonderful sense for both teams then why do you never see the 'who can we get for Malkin' trade proposals on the Pens' board? By the way, I always get a kick out of that statement as nine times out of ten the poster's proposal simply is brutal the other way. So too here. Nothing against the players listed, but none of them are a Malkin. The NHL is littered with players like those and every team has them. They can be found for less than the cost of a Malkin. Pittsburgh has a potential core of four or five stars. You can find players to build around that, especially with a down the middle of Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Fleury. Eventually one will likely have to go, but that is 7 years from now. Until then what a potential ride. If you are lucky enough to stumble into a Jackpot you do not piss it away. Deep down you all know that and in no way would make any trade involving the kid unless you absolutely were schooling the other GM. That is not the case with this offer or similar.

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08-17-2006, 04:47 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
everyone forgets that . you make a good point . after 4 years all these young kids have Arbitration rights.


now crosby will get the max and he only has to wait another 3 years to get it .

if maklin is as good they say he will get the max in 4 years

Marc-Andre Flurey ? another few years away yet

within 4 years time you have

maklin 8.5 -12 million
crosby 8.5 -12 million
flurey 5 - 7 million



i guess its possible they could have 29 million rapped up in 3 players ... in a cap world how many can you afford ?
The max on players is not 12 million, is it? And if the player max does go up the cap will correspondingly go up. Long and short of it is, forget the actual dollars, in the end you could potentially tie up about 40% (something like that) of your cap in 3 players if all hit the max. Fleury will not be the problem. Staal might in 8 years or so. And yet what a problem to have. The trade value of any of those players would remain very high, similar to what the Sens did with Heatly. All in all those kind of problems I can like.

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08-17-2006, 04:57 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Komi#1 View Post
They're talking about this rumour tonight at 110%...
"That's way to much for a Russian! Habs are getting owned in that trade he dosent speak french. We cant risk losing a superstar like Ribeiro for a lazy Russian." -Michel Bergeron.

"Who has ever heard of this unknown Malkimg guy?" - Michel Villeveuve.

"If Molkom was that good why was he playing in some garage league in siberia last year?" - Jean Perron.

"We cant lose our only superstar for a 3rd line defensive forward." - Pierre Rinfret.


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08-17-2006, 04:57 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
The max on players is not 12 million, is it?

4 years from now it very well could be . new tv deal from ctv reported to be 2 times the offer of cbc should add extra revenues and id think the new rules are pretty fan friendly for the leauge . loook at what the cup has done for carolina? there season ticket sales have gone thru the roof there and it can only be a good thing for those markets ...

who knows but regardless with the new cap system in place you will never ever be able to grow a team full of young super stars very long until you have to trade them . thats the new reality of it all...and thats why i belive if gainey is gunning for the cup in 2009 your goona see him deal some of our " young guns" for pieces of the puzzle to get us that cup in or before 2009 ..

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08-17-2006, 05:03 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
4 years from now it very well could be . new tv deal from ctv reported to be 2 times the offer of cbc should add extra revenues and id think the new rules are pretty fan friendly for tghe leauge . loook at what the cup has done for carolina? there season ticket sales have gone thru the roof and it can only be a good thing for those markets ...

who knows but regardless with the new cap system in place you will never ever be able to grow a team full of young super stars very long until you have to trade them . thats the new reality of it all...and that why i belive if gainey is gunniong for the cup in 2009 your goona see him deal some of our " young guns" for pieces of the puzzle to get us that cup in or before 2009 ..
What I am not getting is why the dollar number matters? Say your hypothetical is true, $12 m. The revenues and cap would have risen correspondingly. That number is needlessly deceptive. Better to talk of the maximum percent of the cap taken by players as that should remain a constant.

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08-17-2006, 08:20 PM
  #41
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the Penguins might be listening to offers for Malkin but that trade would never get it done. better players could be had in UFA for the 8.5 million the Penguins would get back.

in my opinion Montreal doesn't have the 2 players that would even start discussions for Malkin. a young first line winger and a young 1-2 d-man. 2 potential star players, not the average or above average players this trade suggests. I would also want a vet. second line center and a third liner

all 4 players would have to be NHL ready or NHL players already
i think you are assigning too much value to a young player who has never played a game in the NHL . when i look back at recent blockbusters like the thornton and roy trades , two ESTABLISHED superstars btw , and compare what san jose and colorado sent the other way it seems to me that montreal or any of the other 28 teams would be vastly over paying for an unknown quantity such as malkin because while the experts may agree that malkin is comparable to mario lemieux the experts have been wrong as often as they have been right . my conscern would be that using your criteria we would potentially be giving up higgins , markov , ryder , and johnson and instead of getting the next lemieux we might be getting the next bobby holik or viktor kozlov . change malkin to crosby and you got yourself a deal .

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08-17-2006, 08:55 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by HF-Addict View Post
Interesting read.

Malkin to the habs would be big.
I would love to see Malkin in Montreal almost no matter what the price.
This guy is better then Crosby....That's right I said he's better then Crosby. He's big Fast great hands phenomenal vision and best of all plays with a chip on his shoulder.

Bob get him in Montreal ASAP...If Montreal gets Malkin I'll get season tickets in the 100's by the way I live in Ottawa

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08-17-2006, 09:07 PM
  #43
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I would love to see Malkin in Montreal almost no matter what the price.
This guy is better then Crosby....That's right I said he's better then Crosby. He's big Fast great hands phenomenal vision and best of all plays with a chip on his shoulder.

Bob get him in Montreal ASAP...If Montreal gets Malkin I'll get season tickets in the 100's by the way I live in Ottawa
Well I'm not gonna bash you much for saying that Malkin is better than Crosby because that's your personal opinion and I respect it.

But damn.. wth?!?! What makes you say that.

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08-17-2006, 09:11 PM
  #44
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Well I'm not gonna bash you much for saying that Malkin is better than Crosby because that's your personal opinion and I respect it.

But damn.. wth?!?! What makes you say that.
I agree totally with you. How can you even compare the two players? I like Malkin and all but I think Crosby would be my first choice. Especially because he's french-canadian.

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08-17-2006, 09:13 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Well I'm not gonna bash you much for saying that Malkin is better than Crosby because that's your personal opinion and I respect it.

But damn.. wth?!?! What makes you say that.
If he's not as good...he is verry verry close.

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08-17-2006, 09:14 PM
  #46
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I agree totally with you. How can you even compare the two players? I like Malkin and all but I think Crosby would be my first choice. Especially because he's french-canadian.
On what planet?

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08-17-2006, 09:16 PM
  #47
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If he's not as good...he is verry verry close.
Ok I'll ask again, why?

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08-17-2006, 09:21 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Ok I'll ask again, why?

Skill wise he's just as good if not better
He;s faster
He's bigger
and plays more physical
Crosby is more of a playmaker but Malkin is a human highlight real
Reminds me of Pavel Bure but better...He's a Pavel Bure Perter Forsberg mix

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08-17-2006, 09:21 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Ok I'll ask again, why?
read this.
http://hockeysfuture.com/top50.php

then read this
http://hockeysfuture.com/prospect.php?pid=3885

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08-17-2006, 09:50 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by habsfan44 View Post
i think you are assigning too much value to a young player who has never played a game in the NHL . when i look back at recent blockbusters like the thornton and roy trades , two ESTABLISHED superstars btw , and compare what san jose and colorado sent the other way it seems to me that montreal or any of the other 28 teams would be vastly over paying for an unknown quantity such as malkin because while the experts may agree that malkin is comparable to mario lemieux the experts have been wrong as often as they have been right . my conscern would be that using your criteria we would potentially be giving up higgins , markov , ryder , and johnson and instead of getting the next lemieux we might be getting the next bobby holik or viktor kozlov . change malkin to crosby and you got yourself a deal .
but Malkin is considered just like Crosby and AO in the scouting circles which is why he would go for so much. In a cap world he is also a huge bargain right now so his value will never be higher. Thornton went for that package because only a few teams could afford to pick up his salary at that time of the season. Every single team can afford to add a 20 year old making 850,000. that means a 30 team bidding war. 30 teams did not bid for Thornton.

and while I might be pushing it saying all 30 teams would bid, at least 15-20 would make offers then they would be played off themselves. How many teams went after thornton??? To have a chnace to add the next Crosby or AO every single team would fit him in their salary cap.

This is also the reason the Penguins may want to trade him now, he will have his most value right now when he is not making 6-8 million.

quick question for ya...your the GM of the Caps or Pens...would you have traded Crosby or AO before they played an NHL game for what Montreal is offering??? no, you would expect more than I expect for Malkin...right???

exactly

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