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Ryane Clowe to Rangers for NYR 2013 2nd, FLA 2013 3rd, Conditional 2nd 2014

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Old
04-03-2013, 11:42 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Rationalization, again.

Why have scouts? Why draft at all? Why not trade every pick, the percentages say so right?

Numbers on paper, constant stat watching, this board is priceless.
What?

One of the TSN panels were discussing the 2nd round pick being a common currency in trades. The GMs trading for the picks usually aren't around to see the player play.

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04-03-2013, 11:43 AM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't doubt it. The thing I like about Clowe is that he is a mix of both Dubi and Prust. They are trying to replace two players with one.
Which is the exact opposite of what they did in the offseason, trying to replace single players with 2 guys

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04-03-2013, 11:44 AM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't doubt it. The thing I like about Clowe is that he is a mix of both Dubi and Prust. They are trying to replace two players with one.
I think they had their eyes set on Clowe going back to last off-season. They saw what Prust was asking for, had a ceiling on it and knew Clowe would be getting 3.5-4.25 as the better player. They decided to go this direction. I just hope they don't try and let Clowe be THE guy in terms of toughness.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Why would Hagelin be bumped up? He's been quite mediocre lately. Where is Callahan?
He played well with Stepan and Nash for a while. Time to stop moving hiom around and let them work through it. Creates depth. I forgot Cally

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Clowe-Richards-Gaborik
MZA-Boyle-Callahan
Pyatt-Powe-Miller

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04-03-2013, 11:45 AM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
So what are you saying? You make it sound so easy to find guys like this. We've been trying to do it for ages now. Clowe was a relatively lucky pick in the 6th round. If it's such a "novel idea," perhaps you could explain why our team tries to do it draft in, draft out. Clearly it's not a "novel idea."

On Saad: I'll wait and see if he contines it. Saad looks good. Don't be so arrogant here, though, because I've never been one to be unable to admit to being wrong. I am correct quite often, but like everyone else I have been wrong many times as well. FWIW, Wolski (my comparison for him and I still view it that way -- funnily enough, they are on pace for similar points) was great for a while, too.

Great ad hominem, though, Bluenote.
You are always so sure, I will never forget that Giants draft and you being convinced that Pierre-Paul was an awful pick before he even played a game So when you come here so confident that its impossible to draft a player, or a team that is overall tough to play against I have to call you out on it.

This team needs are always addressed with overpayment or scraps on the market(Mashinter).

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04-03-2013, 11:45 AM
  #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDubiZib View Post
Which is the exact opposite of what they did in the offseason, trying to replace single players with 2 guys
Hah, for sure. More of a fan of this method.

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04-03-2013, 11:45 AM
  #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Means nothing.

List all the players within 10 picks of all those players, that'll make more sense.
This year, I want you to post a mock draft for the Rangers. Not just guys that you like, but I want you to make each selection. Single player each round. Then we can evaluate in a few years. It's not important if you thought highly of a guy that ended up good if you would have picked another guy who ended up mediocre or less.

I'm no scout, and I can come up with a list of players before each draft that I like, that end up going in the later rounds, and that end up becoming good players. I also come up with a bunch of guys that no one hears from after two years.

I know you like to toot your own horn when you're right on certain guys, but are you ever wrong? I'm legitimately curious. I'm wrong on drafting guys all the time, and wrong on evaluating prospects. I said Girardi had no business in the NHL and I liked Jon Paiement as a late-round gem. Who were you wrong on?

When you do your mock, I also want you to make selections on the picks we traded away.

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04-03-2013, 11:45 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post

He played well with Stepan and Nash for a while. Time to stop moving hiom around and let them work through it. Creates depth. I forgot Cally

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Clowe-Richards-Gaborik
MZA-Boyle-Callahan
Pyatt-Powe-Miller
After the game they had last game, how can you break up Nash-Stepan-Callahan?

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04-03-2013, 11:45 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
What?

One of the TSN panels were discussing the 2nd round pick being a common currency in trades. The GMs trading for the picks usually aren't around to see the player play.
No worries there...Sather will still be Rangers GM when the player's kids play.

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04-03-2013, 11:46 AM
  #709
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After the game they had last game, how can you break up Nash-Stepan-Callahan?
Totally agree...if it's true, that makes no sense.

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04-03-2013, 11:48 AM
  #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
You are always so sure, I will never forget that Giants draft and you being convinced that Pierre-Paul was an awful pick before he even played a game So when you come here so confident that its impossible to draft a player, or a team that is overall tough to play against I have to call you out on it.

This team needs are always addressed with overpayment or scraps on the market(Mashinter).


I love how you love to cherry pick things, dude. Why not throw out all the times I have been right to counter-act the times I've been wrong? Classic Bluenote ad hominem stuff, though, to try and discredit someone who disagrees with him.

And who ever said it's impossible to draft said player? Now you're in the business of putting words in my mouth. Awesome!

I agree with nyr2k2.

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04-03-2013, 11:49 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
TSN had a segment on 2nd round picks. From 2000-2010. 54% of the players taken never played in the NHL. 18% became top 6 forwards. From 2009-2012. 3 players have made an impact. ROR,Faulk and Saad.
That gotta be an extremely generous count.

That number isn't correct if you put any reasonable conditions to it, but even so, they still basically also say that just under three second round picks are worth one (1) top 6 forward (taking into accounts that some also becomes good D's).

If there is any spill of assets from a organization its not picks trades for players -- that's probably the opposite (ie it would make sense to trade more picks for players) -- but players not kept. Players lost to UFA basically.

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04-03-2013, 11:49 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't doubt it. The thing I like about Clowe is that he is a mix of both Dubi and Prust. They are trying to replace two players with one.
Combo of Dubi and Prust is what I was thinking too and I like it!

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04-03-2013, 11:50 AM
  #713
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
What?

One of the TSN panels were discussing the 2nd round pick being a common currency in trades. The GMs trading for the picks usually aren't around to see the player play.
Yeah I heard, dealing ONE 2nd rounder. Not two plus a 3rd for a guy who is not a star player. He adds elements that are hard to find, yet how many teams have won the cup w/o one guy like this but overall team toughness. LA was tough last year, who was their Ryan Clowe? Dwight King, Kyle Clifford, Jordan Nolan - ALL ACQUIRED THROUGH THE DRAFT.

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04-03-2013, 11:51 AM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I know you like to toot your own horn when you're right on certain guys, but are you ever wrong? I'm legitimately curious. I'm wrong on drafting guys all the time, and wrong on evaluating prospects. I said Girardi had no business in the NHL and I liked Jon Paiement as a late-round gem. Who were you wrong on?

When you do your mock, I also want you to make selections on the picks we traded away.
Hell of a post, man.

I mean, I was high on Dane Byers. Look how that turned out? I nailed the picks of guys like Stepan, AJ Thelen, etc. and miss on some. ****, I was high on David Inman (I even wrote an article about him), Shawn Collymore, and Pontus Petterstrom!!! But then I nailed it with Prucha. And I am not afraid to mention that at all (yet you have Bluentoe trying to attack my credibility even though he should damn well know that I've never been one to always claim to be correct).

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04-03-2013, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Yeah I heard, dealing ONE 2nd rounder. Not two plus a 3rd for a guy who is not a star player. He adds elements that are hard to find, yet how many teams have won the cup w/o one guy like this but overall team toughness. LA was tough last year, who was their Ryan Clowe? Dwight King, Kyle Clifford, Jordan Nolan - ALL ACQUIRED THROUGH THE DRAFT.
Funny thing is none of those guys are the caliber of Clowe who has been a legitimate top 6 player his whole career. The only guy that has a shot at being a top 6-er there is King.

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04-03-2013, 11:55 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Yeah I heard, dealing ONE 2nd rounder. Not two plus a 3rd for a guy who is not a star player. He adds elements that are hard to find, yet how many teams have won the cup w/o one guy like this but overall team toughness. LA was tough last year, who was their Ryan Clowe? Dwight King, Kyle Clifford, Jordan Nolan - ALL ACQUIRED THROUGH THE DRAFT.
Clowe, when not having a down year is better than those 3 guys combined

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04-03-2013, 11:56 AM
  #717
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
This year, I want you to post a mock draft for the Rangers. Not just guys that you like, but I want you to make each selection. Single player each round. Then we can evaluate in a few years. It's not important if you thought highly of a guy that ended up good if you would have picked another guy who ended up mediocre or less.

I'm no scout, and I can come up with a list of players before each draft that I like, that end up going in the later rounds, and that end up becoming good players. I also come up with a bunch of guys that no one hears from after two years.

I know you like to toot your own horn when you're right on certain guys, but are you ever wrong? I'm legitimately curious. I'm wrong on drafting guys all the time, and wrong on evaluating prospects. I said Girardi had no business in the NHL and I liked Jon Paiement as a late-round gem. Who were you wrong on?

When you do your mock, I also want you to make selections on the picks we traded away.
Interesting.

I'll be following this discussion....closely.

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04-03-2013, 12:02 PM
  #718
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Don't watch Sharks games, but Sharks fans say Clowe has looked much better since taking 4 games off to rest a shoulder injury he's been playing through. He has 2 pts and is a +3 in 3 games since returning so that is mildly encouraging.

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04-03-2013, 12:11 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
This year, I want you to post a mock draft for the Rangers. Not just guys that you like, but I want you to make each selection. Single player each round. Then we can evaluate in a few years. It's not important if you thought highly of a guy that ended up good if you would have picked another guy who ended up mediocre or less.

I'm no scout, and I can come up with a list of players before each draft that I like, that end up going in the later rounds, and that end up becoming good players. I also come up with a bunch of guys that no one hears from after two years.

I know you like to toot your own horn when you're right on certain guys, but are you ever wrong? I'm legitimately curious. I'm wrong on drafting guys all the time, and wrong on evaluating prospects. I said Girardi had no business in the NHL and I liked Jon Paiement as a late-round gem. Who were you wrong on?

When you do your mock, I also want you to make selections on the picks we traded away.
Since YOU asked, I will do that

I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong about prospects. My record has been pretty good of late. My worst picks were easily pre 2005 when I was a young sproutling like many of the posters on this board right now. I was a big AJ Thelen fan in '04. Voloshenko & Lyamin also in '04 2nd round when we had 4 picks. In 2005 I was cautious about Staal, but didn't dislike the pick, was more bummed out about our draft slot.

Our #1 picks:
2006 - Grabner, C Stewart, D Persson
2007 - Pacioretty, Petrecki, Backlund
2008 - Karlsson, Eberle, Jared Staal
2009 - Kassian, Ferraro, Moore
2010 - Johansen, Tarasenko, Granlund, Kuznetsov, Forbort
2011 - Scheifele, McNeil, Armia
2012 - Wilson, Gaunce, Thrower, Vasilevski

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04-03-2013, 12:13 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Since YOU asked, I will do that

I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong about prospects. My record has been pretty good of late. My worst picks were easily pre 2005 when I was a young sproutling like many of the posters on this board right now. I was a big AJ Thelen fan in '04. Voloshenko & Lyamin also in '04 2nd round when we had 4 picks. In 2005 I was cautious about Staal, but didn't dislike the pick, was more bummed out about our draft slot.

Our #1 picks:
2006 - Grabner, C Stewart, D Persson
2007 - Pacioretty, Petrecki, Backlund
2008 - Karlsson, Eberle, Jared Staal
2009 - Kassian, Ferraro, Moore
2010 - Johansen, Tarasenko, Granlund, Kuznetsov, Forbort
2011 - Scheifele, McNeil, Armia
2012 - Wilson, Gaunce, Thrower, Vasilevski
He's asking for future picks. Not hindsight picks.

And first to admit? More like the first to try and discredit other people by cherrypicking out stuff from years ago, amirite?

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04-03-2013, 12:14 PM
  #721
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Hell of a post, man.

I mean, I was high on Dane Byers. Look how that turned out? I nailed the picks of guys like Stepan, AJ Thelen, etc. and miss on some. ****, I was high on David Inman (I even wrote an article about him), Shawn Collymore, and Pontus Petterstrom!!! But then I nailed it with Prucha. And I am not afraid to mention that at all (yet you have Bluentoe trying to attack my credibility even though he should damn well know that I've never been one to always claim to be correct).
I was right about Byers, and Sauer for that matter. Two players with a history of FAMILY injuries. Thats cause I did my homework, knew these were too risky before they were drafted.

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04-03-2013, 12:16 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I was right about Byers, and Sauer for that matter. Two players with a history of FAMILY injuries. Thats cause I did my homework, knew these were too risky before they were drafted.
Byers didn't bust due to injury. Byers busted because he's a ****** player.

Sauer has been a solid pick even with his injury problems. Weird that you'd even include him here.

I also like the fact that you hint that I didn't know of the injury history when I was one agreeing with you back then about it adding to the risk. In fact, I was a proponent of the belief that Sauer was a top 20 pick if not for his family history and his own injury history.

Love it, man. Keep it going.

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04-03-2013, 12:17 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by Oh Thats Nashty View Post
Don't watch Sharks games, but Sharks fans say Clowe has looked much better since taking 4 games off to rest a shoulder injury he's been playing through.
Let's hope he doesn't miss four games with the Rangers because of his shoulder...this rental is only going to play a grand total of 13 regular season game for us max.

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04-03-2013, 12:18 PM
  #724
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No worries there...Sather will still be Rangers GM when the player's kids play.
Glen will be 70 soon. How many years will Glen be running the ship? On a serious note,Slats has prostate cancer. He is a very wealthy man. Slats owns half of Banff,Alberta. Life is too short. Glen should give the day to day operations to Gorton. Enjoy his family. Kids. Grandkids.

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04-03-2013, 12:19 PM
  #725
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Glen will be 70 soon. How many years will Glen be running the ship? On a serious note,Slats has prostate cancer. He is a very wealthy man. Slats owns half of Banff,Alberta. Life is too short. Glen should give the day to day operations to Gorton. Enjoy his family. Kids. Grandkids.
From your lips to God's ears....but I have my doubts

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