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Old
04-01-2013, 10:06 PM
  #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
yea. he did say something about that. i'm just making the point that he's not as bad as everyone acts. and i do think save perc is a more telling number than goals against but it is also still sort of a blanket number. it generalizes all shots as equal. i have the center ice package and most good goalies don't make more than 1 or two great saves a game for the most part. the rest are pretty much standard positioning and anticipating the play. the reason i defend him at all is that we allow a lot of goals from defensive breakdowns in the slot, whether their just turnovers or passive coverage. that's what frustrates me more than anything with us. he hasn't been dominick hasek 1999 but things are not his fault. he's played well.
Sorry, but just trying to argue that sv pct doesn't mean everything, with pretty much no other supporting facts, isn't really a convincing argument that the guy is any good, either.

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04-02-2013, 08:16 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Of course it's not a perfect metric by any means, and it does generalize all shot as being equal. But you mostly watch our games, and no one has really made a persuasive argument thus far as to how it is that we are the ones giving up more quality chances than other teams, despite the lower total shots allowed.

Plus, what you mention as standard positioning and anticipating the play is goaltending. No one is asking for Bryz to make awesome saves all errday. No one cares whether he gets over to the other side quicker, is in better position, keeps his glove in a better position, keeps his five-hole closed etc. and then makes the save look like an easy one rather than having to sprawl and flash gloves to compensate for a mistake he made otherwise. I mean, some of the saves he should've made are made to look easy by other goalies. And they add up. I think he can't be blamed for most goals, but like Appleton has mentioned, if every fifth game he was in better positioning or whatever and wouldn't have allowed a soft goal, things would be entirely different. I was just watching the Predators vs. Colorado highlights and there was one play where Varlamov got over to the other side of the crease in lightning speed, and he made the save that followed look easy. But if he was slower he'd have to lunge and then of course people would've said he couldn't have gotten that one.

I like Bryz and also think he's slightly better than what his stats show. But hey, you know what? That might be irrationality in me talking. There is absolutely no reason to believe that other than that I'm biased by actually liking the guy and following the Flyers. It might be true, but usually the save percentage is heavily correlated with how good goalies are. Look at Rinne. Started off great, had a high save percentage, then started letting in stinkers here and there, and he's back to the real world. On the other hand, Bobrovsky looked decent, but nothing spectacular in the beginning, and his numbers were also quite average. He starts playing well and it is reflected in his stats. Sure, there's always going to be outliers, but I don't think a case has been made here why Bryz would be one.
A+ Post.

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Old
04-02-2013, 01:21 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
save perc is a more telling number than goals against but it is also still sort of a blanket number. it generalizes all shots as equal.

i have the center ice package and most good goalies don't make more than 1 or two great saves a game for the most part. the rest are pretty much standard positioning and anticipating the play. the reason i defend him at all is that we allow a lot of goals from defensive breakdowns in the slot, whether their just turnovers or passive coverage. that's what frustrates me more than anything with us. he hasn't been dominick hasek 1999 but things are not his fault. he's played well.
great post

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Old
04-02-2013, 02:23 PM
  #754
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It's a pretty bad post. I watch a lot of goaltending as well. The elite goaltenders in this league do not let quite a few goals that Bryz lets in. They also do not look behind themselves 3-4 times a game.

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04-02-2013, 02:57 PM
  #755
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I think a big key to a goalies success is how he fits into the teams system. What I have noticed this year is that on the nights where the Flyers as a team seem in sync defensively, Bryz looks much better. There seems to be an understanding between him and the other players about what to do in what situation (when to block shots, when not to, who is responsible for what man, etc). Bryz seems comfortable in these games, and is able to always be in position and even be able to make some of the athletic saves. These are the games where he usually sees more shots, but less quality ones, helping his SV% significantly.

However, there have been plenty games this season where the team has been way out of sync. There seems to be so much confusion on the ice, and it leads to a lot of prime scoring opportunities for the other team. In these games, Bryz seems uncomfortable, and is all over the place because it seems like he feels like he needs to be ready for anything, which gets him off balanced and out of position, leading to him giving up what most would say were savable goals. These are also the games where you see a lot of flukey deflections go in because the defenseman are also out of position a lot of the time.

I really think if this team can get on the same page consistently, Bryz is more than capable of being the guy for this team moving forward. He seems like a competitor and the team seems to back him.

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Old
04-02-2013, 08:43 PM
  #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Sorry, but just trying to argue that sv pct doesn't mean everything, with pretty much no other supporting facts, isn't really a convincing argument that the guy is any good, either.
uh yea. i know. that's my point. but i just take the opposite opinion of you. obviously everyone sees things from different perspectives when they watch hockey. some just see clearer than others. some of us are right and....

i'm kidding. i wish i was that big of a doosh bag to keep going with that tho.

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Old
04-02-2013, 09:17 PM
  #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Of course it's not a perfect metric by any means, and it does generalize all shot as being equal. But you mostly watch our games, and no one has really made a persuasive argument thus far as to how it is that we are the ones giving up more quality chances than other teams, despite the lower total shots allowed.

Plus, what you mention as standard positioning and anticipating the play is goaltending. No one is asking for Bryz to make awesome saves all errday. No one cares whether he gets over to the other side quicker, is in better position, keeps his glove in a better position, keeps his five-hole closed etc. and then makes the save look like an easy one rather than having to sprawl and flash gloves to compensate for a mistake he made otherwise. I mean, some of the saves he should've made are made to look easy by other goalies. And they add up. I think he can't be blamed for most goals, but like Appleton has mentioned, if every fifth game he was in better positioning or whatever and wouldn't have allowed a soft goal, things would be entirely different. I was just watching the Predators vs. Colorado highlights and there was one play where Varlamov got over to the other side of the crease in lightning speed, and he made the save that followed look easy. But if he was slower he'd have to lunge and then of course people would've said he couldn't have gotten that one.

I like Bryz and also think he's slightly better than what his stats show. But hey, you know what? That might be irrationality in me talking. There is absolutely no reason to believe that other than that I'm biased by actually liking the guy and following the Flyers. It might be true, but usually the save percentage is heavily correlated with how good goalies are. Look at Rinne. Started off great, had a high save percentage, then started letting in stinkers here and there, and he's back to the real world. On the other hand, Bobrovsky looked decent, but nothing spectacular in the beginning, and his numbers were also quite average. He starts playing well and it is reflected in his stats. Sure, there's always going to be outliers, but I don't think a case has been made here why Bryz would be one.
um we take a retarded amount of penalties. we kill a lot of penalties but we still take em and get scored on too. the team in front is ridiculously inconsistent. i'm not saying lets give him a raise, all bleeding heart for bryzgalov. I'm just hatin the haters. i think bryzgalov has had some really good games this year. i don't think he gets credit on this thread. therefore we argue. its fun. as far as making a definitive case one way or the other, everyone's just talking out their funghoul, including me. i want to stick with the summer 2011 plan. its not done yet. F luke schenn.


Last edited by funghoul: 04-02-2013 at 09:37 PM.
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Old
04-03-2013, 07:52 AM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
It's a pretty bad post. I watch a lot of goaltending as well. The elite goaltenders in this league do not let quite a few goals that Bryz lets in. They also do not look behind themselves 3-4 times a game.
no, its a great post. i watch a ton of games, and our goalies have been hung out far more than any of the successful teams.

really ? now Bryz gets slammed for making saves, and checking behind him ? really ? now i've heard it all

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Old
04-03-2013, 11:44 AM
  #759
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Bob!

I feel ill to my stomach......what a gross miscalc. Even Niemi and Emery are showing up our goaltending once again...

Save Percentage Leaders
1. Craig Anderson, OTT .952
2. Sergei Bobrovsky, CBJ .927
3. Corey Crawford, CHI .925
4. Antti Niemi, SJ .924
4. Viktor Fasth, ANA .924


Sergei Bobrovsky
26GP 12W 8L 6OTL 2.13GAA .927SV% 3SO

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Old
04-03-2013, 11:52 AM
  #760
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Obvious mistake was obvious before obvious mistake was made.

Any who, need a big game out of our lovely BUM.

Can't have this guy kill whatever momentum our skaters have going.

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04-03-2013, 11:54 AM
  #761
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Does it strike anyone that Emery and Bob are performing well off of this team? There might not be a correlation, but wow.

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04-03-2013, 12:04 PM
  #762
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has our $5.9 million mistake had a game all year where his save % was higher than that of Bobs for the entire month of March?

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04-03-2013, 12:06 PM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
I feel ill to my stomach......what a gross miscalc. Even Niemi and Emery are showing up our goaltending once again...

Save Percentage Leaders
1. Craig Anderson, OTT .952
2. Sergei Bobrovsky, CBJ .927
3. Corey Crawford, CHI .925
4. Antti Niemi, SJ .924
4. Viktor Fasth, ANA .924


Sergei Bobrovsky
26GP 12W 8L 6OTL 2.13GAA .927SV% 3SO

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:11 PM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dat sauce View Post
has our $5.9 million mistake had a game all year where his save % was higher than that of Bobs for the entire month of March?
Probably one of his shutouts or 1 goal games. Just a guess.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:14 PM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Obvious mistake was obvious before obvious mistake was made.
Yup..said way back in a thread that the Flyers would most likely rue the day they traded him and I still disagree that he will come back down to earth and only ever be a "fringe" starter. Maybe here he would have been with that idiot savant Reese and the fact we demoted him after 1 year....

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:14 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Does it strike anyone that Emery and Bob are performing well off of this team? There might not be a correlation, but wow.
Bob is developing, so of course it's reasonable to see him improve; it's taken Emery a couple years of recovery to get to this point. He was shaky when he came back, and didn't maintain good play for long. From what I remember watching, he's gotten stronger every year.

Edit: I don't think he was able to start many games at all until this year

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:16 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Probably one of his shutouts or 1 goal games. Just a guess.
****. forgot he had a shutout this year

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:19 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Bob is developing, so of course it's reasonable to see him improve; it's taken Emery a couple years of recovery to get to this point. He was shaky when he came back, and didn't maintain good play for long. From what I remember watching, he's gotten stronger every year.

Edit: I don't think he was able to start many games at all until this year
Well sure. I know Bob is developing, but the fact that the very next year he is tops in the league in a few stats sucks.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:42 PM
  #769
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Well sure. I know Bob is developing, but the fact that the very next year he is tops in the league in a few stats sucks.
Sure does. And he's doing it on a team that likes to get trapped in their own end more than the Flyers. I've seen them give up plenty of scoring chances too, but it's not that big of a deal because Bob actually stops those.

So now it sucks even more.

Glad to have helped?

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04-03-2013, 01:31 PM
  #770
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Steve Mason = bye bye ML & Boosh

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04-03-2013, 01:32 PM
  #771
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Steve Mason = bye bye ML & Boosh
Thank god.

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Old
04-03-2013, 01:32 PM
  #772
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Bryz can have a night off now

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Old
04-03-2013, 01:33 PM
  #773
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Mason isn't that great, but we have a better chance of winning with him in net than Boosh or Leighton.

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Old
04-03-2013, 01:38 PM
  #774
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Bryz can have a night off now
Don't you mean Bryz can take the rest of the year off? Seriously, Mason is just as good.

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04-03-2013, 01:38 PM
  #775
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I'm not so sure of that.

Edit: Mason being significantly better than Leighton or Boosh, that is.

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