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Ryane Clowe to Rangers for NYR 2013 2nd, FLA 2013 3rd, Conditional 2nd 2014

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:09 PM
  #776
Jersey Girl
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I am nearly 31. 3 more years after this June. Guess I should just kill myself now before I hit that age. Rather go out now than be 31 and have to be put in a home.
Seriously? This is the best you can do? Comparing your life to the length of a hockey player's career?

All-time Facepalm moment...

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04-03-2013, 12:11 PM
  #777
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Sort of unrelated, but . . . Do we have ANY cerebral guys? That's actually a complaint of mine. It's a team full of retards. And our top two prospects only add to that (Miller and Kreider). I seriously think on offense only Stepan, Nash and Richards are smart players.
I think you can add a guy like Boyle to that list. Just doesn't have the talents to support the IQ

same with a few other guys as well.

Overall this team is soff, so soff, they do not get a t

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04-03-2013, 12:12 PM
  #778
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Lovely. I love how you still make it sound so easy to find them. My God, man! Why are you not a scout. You would have this team turned around yesterday!
I was on track for a career in Hockey, joined the circus instead. The elephant **** is just as stinky but the peanuts are worth it

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No. He asked for this: "This year, I want you to post a mock draft for the Rangers. Not just guys that you like, but I want you to make each selection. Single player each round. Then we can evaluate in a few years."

You provided some past drafts. That's not what was requested.
He asked when have I been wrong too, you left that part out, maybe thats why you are not understanding.

And I will get around to doing the mock draft, plenty of time left to do that.



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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Uh, Byers had one season where injuries killed him. 09/10. Every other season he was playing 70+ games in the AHL. The only time he ever payed under 50 games in the WHL was his rookie year. So no. Injuries did not mean much to his development.
Dane Byers missed 30, then 20, then 10 games his first 3 years in the WHL. He played two full(almost full) seasons on Hartford and missed almost the entire 2009 season.


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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Uh, even with his injuries he is still a solid pick. We have gotten 100 games out of the kid. That's more than you'll get than most 2nd rounders. His career is not over (and I am not an optimist with him right now), but it was a solid pick with some really high upside (funny, you seem to like upside prior to the draft but are the first one to rip on the team for taking a high upside guy when he busts!).
Still a solid pick? We had 4 2nd rounders and one became an NHL player. One. SOLID !

Goligoski was a known, won Mr Hockey in Minny, yet we passed on him 4 times, how is that Cherry picking, everyone knew he was good, unlike all the other teams that year the Rangers passed on him 4 times before the Pens snatched him up.

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Look -- you are a very solid poster on here. But you are straight up obnoxious with the cherry picking of stuff and your constant attempt to try and point out things people have been wrong with.

The difference between you and me? I don't go looking through your past and try and act like an ass to you every time you post. As one of the more arrogant posters here in terms of my own belief of my evaluation skills, you make me look like I have the "arrogance" of the Biblical Job. I have been pretty mum about all of this for years, but I feel the need to address that now. It's one thing to be arrogant. Some swag and arrogance is quite useful (particularly for me going into the field of law). But it's another to be smug about it.
I hold people accountable to what they say. I expect posters to do the same with me. If I'm wrong, tell me, explain it to me, just don't say ahh thats garbage, we dont need drafts picks, look at the percentages!" Thats just a cop out. People refuse to acknowledge the risks involved. What makes it worse is that so many on here act as if we are the model example of a franchise who knows what they're doing, yet have won nothing while turning over the roster year after year.

I admit that on here I will always come off as a know it all to some, that's fine, I'm pretty confident guy who has some history involved in hockey going back to the early 1980's.

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Just my two cents. And I think it's telling that I am the one saying that. Of all people
I am no longer capable of that, unfortunately. I'm behind the times with law school on my docket.
I have no problems with you giving me your two cents, I appreciate and respect it immensely. There's nothing wrong with us having a difference of opinion, or being confident about it. Just don't resort to name calling and that kind of stuff that clogs up these boards. Remember when it was just us 'rival' posters. Those were the days

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04-03-2013, 12:19 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I am nearly 31. 3 more years after this June. Guess I should just kill myself now before I hit that age. Rather go out now than be 31 and have to be put in a home.
The arguments in this thread are getting pretty ridiculous.

31 is getting on in years for a hockey player, especially a forward who plays a physical style.

For a regular job, of course it's not old. There's no comparison.

If Mr. Clowe can produce three years similar to his 25-29 prime, then yeah, it's a good deal. There are good reasons to be skeptical, though.

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04-03-2013, 12:23 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Dane Byers missed 30, then 20, then 10 games his first 3 years in the WHL. He played two full(almost full) seasons on Hartford and missed almost the entire 2009 season.
30 games? WHLers don't play 80 games in a season, dude. You also don't expect him to be playing every game as a rookie in the WHL, do you? Because THAT is unrealistic. He first was getting good ice time in his 3rd season.

And, again. The 2009 season was the first time he had MAJOR injury problems. And it was one single, bad injury as well.

Quote:
Still a solid pick? We had 4 2nd rounders and one became an NHL player. One. SOLID !

Goligoski was a known, won Mr Hockey in Minny, yet we passed on him 4 times, how is that Cherry picking, everyone knew he was good, unlike all the other teams that year the Rangers passed on him 4 times before the Pens snatched him up.
And are you talking about the same year? Goligoski was not a 2005 draft pick. I think you are confusing Byers with Sauer (who I was talking about with that quote). The 2004 draft was miserable and I hated most of the picks. The Don Maloney years were ****ing horrible.

Quote:
I hold people accountable to what they say.
As do I. But I tend to do it in a bit nicer manner (again, this is ME saying this -- of ALL the people here! LOL).

Quote:
I expect posters to do the same with me. If I'm wrong, tell me, explain it to me, just don't say ahh thats garbage, we dont need drafts picks, look at the percentages!" Thats just a cop out. People refuse to acknowledge the risks involved. What makes it worse is that so many on here act as if we are the model example of a franchise who knows what they're doing, yet have won nothing while turning over the roster year after year.
Who is refusing to acknowledge the risks? If anything, you're refusing to acknowledge the benefits of being risk averse with draft picks and moving them for solidified talents.

Quote:
I admit that on here I will always come off as a know it all to some, that's fine, I'm pretty confident guy who has some history involved in hockey going back to the early 1980's.
Coming off as a know-it-all is fine. I don't believe it's a bad thing. But you need to be a bit less ridiculous when you're cherry-picking things to criticize others with. That's my point. If you want to say that I've been wrong, then start listing all the times I've been right. I can go and revisit old threads (Stepan, Nigel Williams, AJ Thelen, and countless others) to toot my horn all I want. So if you're going to pick out when I'm wrong, balance it out with the many more times that I've been right. I take a lot of offense with what you've been doing here, since you have been trying to discredit my opinion in this thread with one wrong NFL prediction and a not-yet-wrong NHL prediction while ignoring every single other thing. I think you can see why that would annoy someone. Particularly someone who respects you and has been pretty damn nice to you for years, now.

Quote:
I have no problems with you giving me your two cents, I appreciate and respect it immensely. There's nothing wrong with us having a difference of opinion, or being confident about it. Just don't resort to name calling and that kind of stuff that clogs up these boards. Remember when it was just us 'rival' posters. Those were the days
I don't disagree. I'm not name calling anyone here. Calling you smug is not name calling. It's addressing something in your character that I think has needed addressing for a long time, now. If you erase that (and honestly -- I don't remember you acting this way years ago), we can get back to just disagreeing with each other on some things and agreeing with each other on others. It usually ends up being Edge and myself vs you, anyway

You've been one of my favorite posters for years. So consider this a recommendation. I miss the old non-jerk Bluenote, basically.

Hug it out, *****.

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Old
04-03-2013, 12:24 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Silly comparison....this is not about 'tough physical players' versus 'soft cerebral guys' and you know it. It's about giving out $4.5 million of cap space to Clowe for four years when he's 31 years old and has already showed signs of wear.

The Flyers overpaid for the 'soft cerebral' Danny Briere too.
It's not a silly comparisson.

It's about acquiring players that play the game a certain way to fill a very significant void on this team.

You are sitting here, predicting that what we have seen from Clowe this year (0 goals and 11 assists) is going to be a worse player next year and the year after and I 1000% disagree with that notion.

He's not been declining for 3 years prior to acquisition the way Redden was. He's having a down season. That's all.

To me, this player adds an element to this Rangers team that has been lacking which I believe has been a big part of the struggle this season.

We play the game with NO BALLS. We play a tentative game. We allow opposing teams to dictate tempo and pace and alot of that has to do with confidence.

We had Prust, Rupp and Bickel in the line up on a regular basis and alot of times games started off heated. We backed down from NO TEAM and played a confident composed game.

This year? Not so much.

So yes, this IS about tough hockey players over soft hockey players.

BTW, what does briere have to do with the price of tea in china? For what they were expecting and what they got, the Briere signing has been a bit of a mistake there as well.

Granted, it was a mistake that was overshadowed by the play of Mike Richards (tough hockey player) Carter, and Giroux. But for the money they gave him, to have just 2 60+ seasons under his belt? I'd say that was a mistake signing.

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04-03-2013, 12:25 PM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandiblesofdoom View Post
The arguments in this thread are getting pretty ridiculous.

31 is getting on in years for a hockey player, especially a forward who plays a physical style.

For a regular job, of course it's not old. There's no comparison.

If Mr. Clowe can produce three years similar to his 25-29 prime, then yeah, it's a good deal. There are good reasons to be skeptical, though.
And there are reasons to believe that he can produce this way for a few more years. If we get a 40 point player who can bring the physical game like him for another 3-4 years? You invest in that.

31 is not old at all. It's just at the tail end of the true prime (should end around 32). So if we get the tail end of his prime and a bit of his last good game (which would bring us to 34 or 35), there is no reason not to take that.

And in case you missed it, I was battling ridiculous hyperbole with ridiculous hyperbole.

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04-03-2013, 12:26 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
So let's say best case scenario, Clowe pulls an Antropov and has a nice little rental season for us...would you spend $4 - 4.5 million per for four years on Clowe?
yes i would. i've been following this team for the past 20 yr, and I can't remember the last time we've had a player with Clowe's skill set. I firmly believe he's start scoring and give us 20g/50p seasons plus the other qualities he brings to the ice...

I like what one SJ fan called him: The Lucic of the West...

With the realignment, we're going to have to be a tough physical team to excel...

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04-03-2013, 12:28 PM
  #784
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Oh, and FWIW, i will agree with Bluenote here on something. As much as this team has been trying to find another Lucic or Clowe (while I certainly do not believe it is as easily done as Bluenote has hinted at), I do think that they need to continue it. I'd like to see some more physical, nasty guys picked earlier on. Miller is a good start and I think Clowe can teach him a lot. Miller was downright mean and nasty as a U18 player. So much that people thought it would get the best of him.

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04-03-2013, 12:45 PM
  #785
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We should have a bragging rights thread. As much as I'm enjoying this (and I want a piece of the action myself), this should be in another thread.

Back to Clowe...I think anyone who thinks he is going to sign for anything below 4 years is nuts.

Like I said late last night, this trade is very similar to the Antropov deal, and I bet Clowe is going to want (and get from someone, probably Sather), the same kind of contract Antropov got from Atlanta. 4 or 5 years, $4/4.5 mill per. That's a hefty investment for us to make.

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04-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #786
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2011 62 points .82 PPG = prorated 82 games = ~67pts
2012 45 points .59 PPG = prorated 82 games = ~48pts
2013 11 points .39 PPG = prorated 82 games = ~31pts

Average time on ice per game
2010-11 19:39
2011-12 17:51
2012-13 16:27

Make your own conclusions.

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04-03-2013, 12:50 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
2011 62 points .82 PPG = prorated 82 games = ~67pts
2012 45 points .59 PPG = prorated 82 games = ~48pts
2013 11 points .39 PPG = prorated 82 games = ~31pts

Average time on ice per game
2010-11 19:39
2011-12 17:51
2012-13 16:27

Make your own conclusions.
He's fresh for the stretch drive.

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04-03-2013, 12:50 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
We should have a bragging rights thread. As much as I'm enjoying this (and I want a piece of the action myself), this should be in another thread.

Back to Clowe...I think anyone who thinks he is going to sign for anything below 4 years is nuts.

Like I said late last night, this trade is very similar to the Antropov deal, and I bet Clowe is going to want (and get from someone, probably Sather), the same kind of contract Antropov got from Atlanta. 4 or 5 years, $4/4.5 mill per. That's a hefty investment for us to make.
Nah, this was a long time coming. Can't really make a thread for something that comes up simultaneously, too.

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04-03-2013, 12:53 PM
  #789
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Spontaneously. Not simultaneously. You know what I mean.

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04-03-2013, 12:54 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
He's fresh for the stretch drive.
I like that one.

How about the coach was using him incorrectly?

Best first pass in the game... Oh wait, sorry... He has a particular set of skills; skills he has acquired over a very long career

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04-03-2013, 01:25 PM
  #791
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30 games? WHLers don't play 80 games in a season, dude. You also don't expect him to be playing every game as a rookie in the WHL, do you? Because THAT is unrealistic. He first was getting good ice time in his 3rd season.

And, again. The 2009 season was the first time he had MAJOR injury problems. And it was one single, bad injury as well.
70 games so yes, missed 20, then 20, then 10 over 3 seasons.

And again, his brother and Uncle retired early due to injury.





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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
And are you talking about the same year? Goligoski was not a 2005 draft pick. I think you are confusing Byers with Sauer (who I was talking about with that quote). The 2004 draft was miserable and I hated most of the picks. The Don Maloney years were ****ing horrible.
Goligoski was taken in the late 2nd in the 2004 draft, the draft we had 4 picks, its you who is forgetting



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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
As do I. But I tend to do it in a bit nicer manner (again, this is ME saying this -- of ALL the people here! LOL).
You? Nice manner? Come on man, you get that way yourself many times around here.



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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Who is refusing to acknowledge the risks? If anything, you're refusing to acknowledge the benefits of being risk averse with draft picks and moving them for solidified talents.
5 years ago this would have been a no brainer, but he comes with baggage in a season where he has been injured and struggled. SOLID is not the word for this trade or player, give it a chance to play out, but what is the case with players like this, do they get better or do they continue to decline?



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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Coming off as a know-it-all is fine. I don't believe it's a bad thing. But you need to be a bit less ridiculous when you're cherry-picking things to criticize others with. That's my point. If you want to say that I've been wrong, then start listing all the times I've been right. I can go and revisit old threads (Stepan, Nigel Williams, AJ Thelen, and countless others) to toot my horn all I want. So if you're going to pick out when I'm wrong, balance it out with the many more times that I've been right. I take a lot of offense with what you've been doing here, since you have been trying to discredit my opinion in this thread with one wrong NFL prediction and a not-yet-wrong NHL prediction while ignoring every single other thing. I think you can see why that would annoy someone. Particularly someone who respects you and has been pretty damn nice to you for years, now.
You keep saying cherry pick, thats not correct. If you want to discuss every Ranger move since we've been on rivals or HF I'll gladly do that, we'd both have hits and misses, but thats not the point of all this. I point out specific moves this team made that had way too much risk for the shape the team has been in. When it comes to you, you are so sure of certain things I have to dial you back a bit and show you that you've been wrong, don't talk in absolutes, thats for the kiddies on here who don't know any better yet. We were them once, but now, I expect a lot more from the guys who have proven their worth around here, you are one of those.

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I don't disagree. I'm not name calling anyone here. Calling you smug is not name calling. It's addressing something in your character that I think has needed addressing for a long time, now. If you erase that (and honestly -- I don't remember you acting this way years ago), we can get back to just disagreeing with each other on some things and agreeing with each other on others. It usually ends up being Edge and myself vs you, anyway

You've been one of my favorite posters for years. So consider this a recommendation. I miss the old non-jerk Bluenote, basically.

Hug it out, *****.
Years ago? I thought I was just as 'passionate' about the MCI pick

Seriously, I'm fed up with this team, I'm finding myself less interested in games, and less interested in the prospects knowing the coach needs specific kinds of players to pamper his delicate system.

But I'm not too smug for the hug bro, we need to corral the Rivals gang together for a game sometime. Where's Fletch and Laches, all grown up and too old to play in the schoolyard with us ?

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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Oh, and FWIW, i will agree with Bluenote here on something. As much as this team has been trying to find another Lucic or Clowe (while I certainly do not believe it is as easily done as Bluenote has hinted at), I do think that they need to continue it. I'd like to see some more physical, nasty guys picked earlier on. Miller is a good start and I think Clowe can teach him a lot. Miller was downright mean and nasty as a U18 player. So much that people thought it would get the best of him.
I like Miller, I hope he isn't the kind of guy who peaks at 18. He's always looked older than his competition, up until this season, where you could say he was rushed in.

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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
We should have a bragging rights thread. As much as I'm enjoying this (and I want a piece of the action myself), this should be in another thread.

Back to Clowe...I think anyone who thinks he is going to sign for anything below 4 years is nuts.

Like I said late last night, this trade is very similar to the Antropov deal, and I bet Clowe is going to want (and get from someone, probably Sather), the same kind of contract Antropov got from Atlanta. 4 or 5 years, $4/4.5 mill per. That's a hefty investment for us to make.
I can't the NYR letting him walk after all this talk of grit and toughness. They'll take the hit and pray.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Nah, this was a long time coming. Can't really make a thread for something that comes up simultaneously, too.
Agreed. Plus, seniority around here should have it privileges, we've both been supporting this site since the beginning. Does that make me smug?

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04-03-2013, 01:28 PM
  #792
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It makes us both smug!

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04-03-2013, 01:29 PM
  #793
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FWIW, I wasn't talking about the 04 draft. I was talking about Sauer as a good pick. Go back and re-read.

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04-03-2013, 01:30 PM
  #794
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FWIW, I wasn't talking about the 04 draft. I was talking about Sauer as a good pick. Go back and re-read.
I was talking about Byers in that draft, not Sauer.


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04-03-2013, 01:32 PM
  #795
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Jesus you two and your lovers quarrel are giving me a headache

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04-03-2013, 01:33 PM
  #796
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yes i would. i've been following this team for the past 20 yr, and I can't remember the last time we've had a player with Clowe's skill set. I firmly believe he's start scoring and give us 20g/50p seasons plus the other qualities he brings to the ice...

I like what one SJ fan called him: The Lucic of the West...

With the realignment, we're going to have to be a tough physical team to excel...
So even though we need goal scoring, and the cap is going down next year from $70.2 million to $64.3 million, you think it's a good idea to give a guy like Clowe $4.5 million per year for four years.

Separately, you saying we have not had a player with Clowe's skill set in the last 20 years is ridiculous.

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04-03-2013, 01:35 PM
  #797
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Jesus you two and your lovers quarrel are giving me a headache
Good, our job is done.

Now if Clowe would just beat someone up right now we'd be set.

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04-03-2013, 01:44 PM
  #798
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Chances are Clowe won't be here long enough to make an lasting impact, but I like the trade because I hate giving up on a season when its there for the taking, at least postseason wise.

Everybody knows Sather's M.O. If he's got a competitive team, he's not going to hoard picks. He'll use them and average underachieving prospects for rentals and depth players.

Sather knows these 2013 picks are redundant, and he's proven to find cheap assets to fill whatever minor void two top-60 draft picks will leave in the organizations depth chart..

I like the current roster very much. Its designed well and balanced. Getting Staal back and adding Clowe will make a huge difference.

After the two losses to Pitt, of course.

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04-03-2013, 01:45 PM
  #799
Bluenote13
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Do I go through this whole thread and highlight everyone who said Gabs would DEFINITELY recoup the traded draft picks back at this years draft?

Yeah.....

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04-03-2013, 03:31 PM
  #800
NYR Sting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I can't the NYR letting him walk after all this talk of grit and toughness. They'll take the hit and pray.
Oh, no doubt. That's going to be the big difference here. The Rangers wasted picks to rent Antropov, but at least they didn't sign him to a bad extension. This time, I have a feeling that they'll be giving up picks in order to hand out a bad extension.

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