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[2013] [TB/OTT] Ben Bishop to TB for Cory Conacher and a 4th round pick

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Old
04-03-2013, 01:53 PM
  #151
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So will he start tomorrow?

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Old
04-03-2013, 01:53 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Wrong again. Lindback is two years younger and hasn't put up the same numbers as Bishop, and struggled with Milwaukee in his short stint down there. Bishop has established himself as one of the premier starters in the AHL and has shown in flashes, at a few different points in his career, that he can be a starter or at least a 1B in the NHL.

I can do this all day, seriously. Add something to the discussion that is worth a ****.
Lol seriously? Is that the organization we have become? "Well, at least he will be a good backup!"

And really? He played in Milwaukee for six games and had above a .900%.

But (Dennis Rodman Voice) Guess what? Guess what? He played in Nashville and had a .915, and has a .903 this year with an EXTREMELY porous defence.

Lindback hasn't shown flashes with the benefit of being two years younger? This is beyond ridiculous.

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Old
04-03-2013, 01:53 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
I don't disagree that Johnson is more complete. He was the shutdown guy for Spokane when the won the memorial Cup and played a defensive forward's role on the US WJ team. But Conacher is the better prospect. It's very likely he becomes a mini Marty (no pun). Tyler Johnson has shown he can score at all the different levels but I still see him being more of a lower liner than on a scoring line. Pretty sure that's what Al Murray envisioned too. Either way, Yzerman didn't have to choose between them. I see no problem with keeping them both. Marty, Johnson, Conacher are the only small players. It's not like we're so tiny 1 through 12. Pyatt is the only other player under 6 ft.

We got back a goalie we could of had last year for sooooo much less. Terrible move by Yzerman. And what about Lindback and all that we invested in him? There's a ton of pressure on Yzerman now. People won't be very forgiving if Bishop can't be a starter and Conacher goes on to keep succeeding in hated Ottawa.
Perhaps. Perhaps he comes here last year with the pressure of being a "hero" on a team struggling and ***** the bed. Its easy to sit on a perch and look back and say "we should have gone this way". The rest of the argument was addressed by russian.

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04-03-2013, 01:55 PM
  #154
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Gonchar and Phillips have rebounded but the problem is often times our forwards **** up, the puck stays in our zone and Gonchar/Phillips (they aren't a pairing) tire quickly and then boom, in the back of our net.

Yeah our defensive group is better but it's not much better and if your forwards back-check and help out your defense - that can more than make up for the gap between Ottawa-Tampa D.

Bishop is worth the gamble, he's carried stretches twice in consecutive seasons, he's big, he's athletic, a nice guy all-around. Will he have a bad game here and there? Yeah but I don't think going to Tampa will expose him too much.
You think awfully highly of the Lightning.

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04-03-2013, 01:55 PM
  #155
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Don't mind losing Conacher, but not sold on Bishop. Too early to say whether either player will live up to expectations. To me Killorn is the real find among this season's callups, and given a choice between keeping one of Tyler Johnson or Conacher, I would lean toward Johnson. Can't have too many smurfs on the ice, can we?

Now about the goalie situation, here we go again. I suppose from the standpoint of sheer probability, at some point one of these guys is going to pan out. But holy smoke man.

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04-03-2013, 01:56 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Cigar City View Post
Lol seriously? Is that the organization we have become? "Well, at least he will be a good backup!"

And really? He played in Milwaukee for six games and had above a .900%.

But (Dennis Rodman Voice) Guess what? Guess what? He played in Nashville and had a .915, and has a .903 this year with an EXTREMELY porous defence.

Lindback hasn't shown flashes with the benefit of being two years younger? This is beyond ridiculous.
He played with the Ads and was sitting on an .879sv%. His best numbers at ANY level have been .915.

Ben has carried Peoria before, dominated at points with Binghamton.

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04-03-2013, 01:57 PM
  #157
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I stated it on the main board, and I'll state it here; better Conacher than Killorn, Johnson, Palat, or Panik. They are all around better players - at both ends of the ice.

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04-03-2013, 01:59 PM
  #158
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I stated it on the main board, and I'll state it here; better Conacher than Killor, Johnson, Palat, or Panik. They are all around better players - at both ends of the ice.
Accurate. Killorn and Johnson are great products, Panik still can be and plays two-way, Palat will never be the scorer that Conacher is, but hes the kind of guy (if he stays on track) that will be your shutdown line anchor.

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04-03-2013, 02:03 PM
  #159
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Honestly, I fully expect Bishop to become your starter for the next ~decade ahead of Lindback. He's a very good goalie, and is very dedicated to getting even better. He's an absolute professional.

He's also possibly the best shootout goalie in the league right now. He's awesome at them. Just stands there and makes guys miss.

Finally, he's the best teammate you could ask for. Just a genuinely nice guy that his teammates will love having around and will play hard in front of. Very laid-back and will never complain about sitting on the bench. Great guy. You guys will be loving him in no time at all.

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04-03-2013, 02:06 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
He played with the Ads and was sitting on an .879sv%. His best numbers at ANY level have been .915.

Ben has carried Peoria before, dominated at points with Binghamton.
Lindback has shown that he can be above .900 consistently at every level he has played.

I don't care if Bishop has been good at every level, we have one of those already. We paid a lot for it last year. Has Ben Bishop shown that he can be a legit starter in the league? I don't think so, just like Lindback hasn't shown it. This is eerily similar to the situation last year, and it is insane to keep doing the same things and expect a different result.

Giving up on CC also adds to the eery similarities between him and MSL. Just sayin'.

EDIT: I hope you all are not assuming that I do not like Ben Bishop. I watched him in person at UMAINE many times and absolutely loved him. I would have rather had him than Lindback last year honestly, but I just do not understand trying to do the same thing over and over again.

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04-03-2013, 02:09 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieDavidThoreau View Post
Honestly, I fully expect Bishop to become your starter for the next ~decade ahead of Lindback. He's a very good goalie, and is very dedicated to getting even better. He's an absolute professional.

He's also possibly the best shootout goalie in the league right now. He's awesome at them. Just stands there and makes guys miss.

Finally, he's the best teammate you could ask for. Just a genuinely nice guy that his teammates will love having around and will play hard in front of. Very laid-back and will never complain about sitting on the bench. Great guy. You guys will be loving him in no time at all.
Love hearing this, thanks for sharing. I'm really excited for our future.

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04-03-2013, 02:11 PM
  #162
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Old
04-03-2013, 02:11 PM
  #163
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BB will be a #1 for you guys for years to come.

His size, athletics, intelligence and angling abilities will stick out to you.

Also, his rebound control is alright and he can handle the puck with his stick fine.

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04-03-2013, 02:14 PM
  #164
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I don't like to see Conacher go but, we gotta get this goalie situation rectified.

For next year it looks like Garon is out, Lindback and Bishop will battle to be #1. I don't see that as being a bad thing.

Bishop will have the rest of this season to show us what he's got. Lindback was settling in and looking better just before his injury so I think we may have two really good options for goalie next year.

The rest of the youngsters look really good, there's more down on the farm so as frustrating as the last two years have been I'm optimistic about Steve Y's long term plan working out.

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04-03-2013, 02:14 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Accurate. Killorn and Johnson are great products, Panik still can be and plays two-way, Palat will never be the scorer that Conacher is, but hes the kind of guy (if he stays on track) that will be your shutdown line anchor.
Palat reminds me of a winger version of Thompson but with hands.

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04-03-2013, 02:14 PM
  #166
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I guess im the only one really happy about this..

We needed a goalie and im pumped for the healthy competition Lindback and Bishop will give each other. With having guys like Killorn, Palat, Johnson, Connolly, jt Borwn and Panik, Conacher becomes expendable. And of all those guys I just listed.. Conacher has the wort defensive game. Im not bashing Conacher but he easily become expendable

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04-03-2013, 02:17 PM
  #167
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He hasn't played great against the Bolts, so don't judge him based on the games against you guys .

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04-03-2013, 02:20 PM
  #168
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Palat reminds me of a winger version of Thompson but with hands.
I was going to say with more offense, but I like your description a bit better.

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04-03-2013, 02:23 PM
  #169
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Very surprised by this trade. I'll reserve judgment for now, though.

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04-03-2013, 02:23 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Vieille Barbe View Post
Don't mind losing Conacher, but not sold on Bishop. Too early to say whether either player will live up to expectations. To me Killorn is the real find among this season's callups, and given a choice between keeping one of Tyler Johnson or Conacher, I would lean toward Johnson. Can't have too many smurfs on the ice, can we?

Now about the goalie situation, here we go again. I suppose from the standpoint of sheer probability, at some point one of these guys is going to pan out. But holy smoke man.
I feel the same way. How are they going to figure out which guy is the long term solution? I guess you ride Bishop/Lindback until one of them shows they can be a starter or not the answer. Plus Vasi will be ready at some point.

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04-03-2013, 02:24 PM
  #171
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At first, I was wondering what you guys were complaining about. I mean, a 4th for Bishop is not a bad gamble, he's look pretty good this year.

Then... I saw Conachar. Ouch.


It's just that, the Ottawa Senators play very solid defensively and limit offensive chances, thus, inflating their goaltender's numbers.

Not the best trade for Stevie 'Why', but then again, time will tell.
Im a sens fan but our defensive system is so overrated its hilarious, our defensive group is below average. 9/10 times the goalie is saving our defenseman's butt and for bishop to have good numbers shows his potential, the only problem with bishop is his five hole since he is a big guy. He moves well, good rebound control and very good in the shootout.

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04-03-2013, 02:28 PM
  #172
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I feel the same way. How are they going to figure out which guy is the long term solution? I guess you ride Bishop/Lindback until one of them shows they can be a starter or not the answer. Plus Vasi will be ready at some point.
Best case, they both pan out, you rob someone in desperate need of goaltending, develop Vasilevski, and profit.

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04-03-2013, 02:29 PM
  #173
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Very surprised by this trade. I'll reserve judgment for now, though.

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04-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #174
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I'm not pissed at the deal just a bit surprised.
Pretty much how I feel. Just kind of caught me off guard.

Out of all the youngin's that might have to be traded just due to the sheer number of them we have at forward, Conacher was probably the most likely. Agree with zekyshade, if it was between Johnson and Conacher, I'm trading Cory. We have so much young forwards though. Eventually have to trade from a strength to try and patch up a weak spot.

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04-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #175
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I think you're underselling TJ quite a bit there, tbh. Other than Kucherov and Connolly, I don't think we have a better offensive prospect as far as ceiling goes. He's creative and has great vision. I honestly think he'd be an amazing 2C, or a two-way 3C that is going to give us amazing scoring depth down the road.
Yeah I guess that's where I differ. I see him as a good 2 way 3rd line center who can score and play a great defensive game against other teams top players. I just don't see him being in a top 6 for us in the NHL like I see Conacher. And my projection is no knock against him. I was a big fan of him before he signed with us and you need players like him to fil a very valuable spot in your lineup.

[QUOTE=RussianGuyovich;63159541]johnson is better defensively than conacher, i think that goes without saying, and he has outscored conacher in every aspect except last year in the AHL, and he was on track to decimate that this year.[QUOTE/]I always thought Johnson was the guy that made players like Conacher and Ashton and Panik better in the AHL. I'm not a Johnson hater. I'm really happy he's here and doing as well as he is.

I don't think Johnson outscoring him means that much because that's the AHL. If he can pass him up here in this league I'll happily be wrong about him but I don't see that happening or Coop giving him that position on the team. Corys and Tylers and all AHLers have their game translate differently when they make the jump to this level. Conacher offensively I feel could compete and continue to thrive along side other good players like Marty and Stammer, while we see Johnson right now being more a reliable defensive player with Palat.


Quote:
this is a flase dichotomy. it's not like anyone is saying that conacher is not a good player, we're just pointing out that if you take off the rose colored glasses, you will see we have many players that can fill his role, and likely do it better.
That's true, but as of now Conacher has proved he can play. He's still leading the Calder race. For the others it remains to be seen if they can in that role. (and of course I hope they do)

Quote:
the lightning are not a better team without conacher, but hopefully we can be a better team without conacher and with the addition of bishop
I once again agree with you here. It really hope that our goaltending issue eventually becomes a thing of the past and we can get on without the loss of the Bulin Wall. But it's definitely hard to swallow. Fans love Conacher. Everyone has/had very high hopes for him. It hurts knowing we could have received Bishop a year ago for way less. I also haven't given up on Lindback and would rather he make it over seeing another goalie brought in unless that goalie was proven. We gave up some good picks for Lindback too and put a lot of hope on him.

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