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Devils acquire Steve Sullivan from PHX for a 7th Round Pick

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Old
04-03-2013, 05:04 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
It really isn't outlandish to say the revolving door at defense hurts cohesiveness. I really don't get your argument.
Has it been a revolving door though? Guys have usually sat for stretches of games, so most defenseman have gotten to play with the same partners for most of their play.

If every defenseman had a different partner for every game, then I'd think it'd obviously be hard on those defenseman, but when they're playing with basically the same guys from game to game then I think they're comfortable with their partners.

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04-03-2013, 05:05 PM
  #177
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And not for nothing, just because we have eight d-men, doesn't mean it's Pete's choice. He has to deal with what he has. He's tried the best he could to keep everyone happy, even if I don't always agree with his choices game-by-game. But I think he'd rather have a more set lineup and not have to worry about soothing egos (like the 'open-heart' convo with Tallinder when he was getting scratched early).

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04-03-2013, 05:07 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
And not for nothing, just because we have eight d-men, doesn't mean it's Pete's choice. He has to deal with what he has. He's tried the best he could to keep everyone happy, even if I don't always agree with his choices game-by-game. But I think he'd rather have a more set lineup and not have to worry about soothing egos (like the 'open-heart' convo with Tallinder when he was getting scratched early).
Yeah all these guys around really has Pete kinda tempted to take from the cookie jar a lot!

I hope he keeps Volchenkov out for good. He probably won't though, in fact I bet we see him next game.

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04-03-2013, 05:07 PM
  #179
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Kind of a meh trade in my opinion. Lou is continuing his annual Devils reunion tour, and Sullivan is quality depth and veteran grit. But at this point in his career we shouldn't expect him to be an impact player.

Still, the price was definitely right. No risk at all, and the potential for a medium reward.

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04-03-2013, 05:07 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Devils731 View Post
Has it been a revolving door though? Guys have usually sat for stretches of games, so most defenseman have gotten to play with the same partners for most of their play.

If every defenseman had a different partner for every game, then I'd think it'd obviously be hard on those defenseman, but when they're playing with basically the same guys from game to game then I think they're comfortable with their partners.
Larsson alone has played with Greene, Volchenkov and Salvador this year at different times. Fayne's played with Sal, Volch and finally back with Greene the other day (after they were our #1 pairing last year). And those are just the ones I remember from those two. Yes, they have rotated partners, maybe not game-by-game but pretty close to week-by-week.

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04-03-2013, 05:09 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Devils731 View Post
Has it been a revolving door though? Guys have usually sat for stretches of games, so most defenseman have gotten to play with the same partners for most of their play.

If every defenseman had a different partner for every game, then I'd think it'd obviously be hard on those defenseman, but when they're playing with basically the same guys from game to game then I think they're comfortable with their partners.
Yes, yes it has been a revolving door. And no, the pairings have fluctuated quite a bit because different players are constantly getting scratched. Even if you tend to have one of two defensive partners, your game still changes entirely based on who the guy is for the given night.

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04-03-2013, 05:11 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
That was in reference to the gigantic ***** that many people here have developed regarding our eight defensemen.

To clarify my stance: it is certainly not an ideal scenario. I'd rather have seven and use that eight to strengthen our forward corps, or maybe get a good pick. However sitting tight with eight is by no means the abortion that many of you are making it sound like.
Except Urbom is NHL ready, as he's been called up twice. And some people think Gelinas would be fine as the 7th 8th or 9th call up.

So realistically it's 10 defensemen.

I guess I haven't drank the Lou syrum where none of his moves can be questioned, but I don't know any other team in the NHL that has 10 guys that could skate if need be, especially deep with prospects at the same position.

Thus the "gigantic *****" is a hard-on that's caused as a result of well founded logic

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04-03-2013, 05:11 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
It's not change for the sake of change...

The Devils are missing huge amounts of production out of their top 6...they need goals, they need primary scoring that they aren't getting and lost from last season...

Adding another bottom 6 player is ludicrous.

Look at their goals for, it is atrocious...it lacking a solid 10 to 15 goals right now...Sullivan or depth wasn't the answer... the devils bottom 6 is better today than it has been in years, we just aren't getting primary scoring its that simple.
Except if our top players don't start scoring, we aren't doing dick anyway. And that would be the same scenario if we had acquired a Vanek or Pominville. And then never mind all the assets we would have had to give up.

To further, I am quite confident that there just is no market for crappy, overpaid defensemen with years left on their contract. Carolina couldn't give Jokinen away for free and actually had to pay someone to take him. And Tallinder and Volchenkov are way worse than him and are owed more money to boot.

This is not absolve Lou of mistakes made in the offseason. The Salvador contract was not a great idea and then there was no trade market then, just as now. He did an awful job trying to fill the forward core, though I think the finances of VBK played a huge role in all of that. And he miscalculated on the whole 8 D thing.

The fact that our bottom 6 now is as good as its been in years (your words) will be important if our top guys start scoring again, because then we will be able to make some noise.

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04-03-2013, 05:12 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Larsson alone has played with Greene, Volchenkov and Salvador this year at different times. Fayne's played with Sal, Volch and finally back with Greene the other day (after they were our #1 pairing last year). Yes, they have rotated partners, maybe not game-by-game but pretty close to week-by-week.
And most of those guys have played with each other for seasons beforehand too, so that's kind of what I'm saying. How many games do you need to play with a guy to be comfortable with him or to get comfortable with him again? It's not like other teams don't mix up their defensive pairings or do mix and match in game at times for teams that only like to play their top 5 guys.

I don't expect NHL guys to be clueless about their partner after playing with him for 5 games this year, practicing with him for 2 or 3 years, and having played many games with him in past seasons.

Being able to know your partner extremely well is the best case scenario, but I don't think the Devils defense has been mixed up or confused on their partners as much as some people are acting like.

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04-03-2013, 05:13 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Devils731 View Post
Creativity. The Devils have Elias, and to lesser extents Kovy and Lokti, as the only creative forwards on the team. So this is adding another creative player to complement that more straightforward players.

It may help, it may not, but it seems more than worth a 7th round pick to gamble on.
Picks are never guaranteed to be anything, so yeah, maybe it's worth the gamble, but I just feel like Lou has been throwing them around like it's going out of style. Steve Sullivan from a few years ago would be cool, but just the thought of having another old and banged up player on this team, I don't know.... I would rather that they not went there. It's been difficult enough dealing with all of the injuries this year. A very sore subject if you ask me.

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04-03-2013, 05:17 PM
  #186
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I dont see how this is bad.. Adds another forward for depth for the push and the playoffs. It also pushes guys to play better or they will be out of the line up.

He is creative and might help on the PP also.

Who knows sometimes its just a right fit. Maybe he comes is and meshs well with a couple of guys and they start to score never know.

Zubrus Lokti Kovy
Elias Henrique Dags
Sullivan Zajac Clarkson
Poni Carter/Gionta Bernier

Can move a lot of pieces around there who knows what will stick

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04-03-2013, 05:17 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
Yes, yes it has been a revolving door. And no, the pairings have fluctuated quite a bit because different players are constantly getting scratched. Even if you tend to have one of two defensive partners, your game still changes entirely based on who the guy is for the given night.
So how have the Islanders and Rangers handled it, just using local team? They've both had 9 defenseman play 10 or more game while the Devils have only had 8.

It's not unusual to see teams have to play 7-9 defenseman 10+ games this season, it's not just the Devils.

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04-03-2013, 05:19 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Devils731 View Post
So how have the Islanders and Rangers handled it, just using local team? They've both had 9 defenseman play 10 or more game while the Devils have only had 8.

It's not unusual to see teams have to play 7-9 defenseman 10+ games this season, it's not just the Devils.
The problem with the Devils method right now is that we've got 7 guys who should be regulars. You want to be able to have 6 guys and a depth guy (or two depth guys), because then everyone knows what their role is. Having 7 regulars means that everyone is uncomfortable in their skates.

Interchangeable pieces is a good thing. Interchangeable pieces with extra pieces means none of them fit quite right.

Now, granted, this isn't so much Lou's fault as it is a consequence of Tallinder's injury last year, which is why we have the extra pieces. It's Lou's fault insofar as he chose not to deal with it last summer. But, on the other hand, it does mean the team has good injury depth, which is why we never tried to fix it I suspect.

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04-03-2013, 05:20 PM
  #189
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The problem with the Devils method right now is that we've got 7 guys who should be regulars. You want to be able to have 6 guys and a depth guy (or two depth guys), because then everyone knows what their role is. Having 7 regulars means that everyone is uncomfortable in their skates.

Interchangeable pieces is a good thing. Interchangeable pieces with extra pieces means none of them fit quite right.
And an eighth guy that's being played like a regular over the last month, after he was an afterthought the first two months of the season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils731 View Post
So how have the Islanders and Rangers handled it, just using local team? They've both had 9 defenseman play 10 or more game while the Devils have only had 8.

It's not unusual to see teams have to play 7-9 defenseman 10+ games this season, it's not just the Devils.
Has Del Zotto been healthy scratched multiple weeks this year? Or Travis Hamonic? There's a big difference between having to shuttle guys in and out of the lineup due to injury, or changing around guys who aren't everyday d-men anyway (i.e. prospects/scrubs) compared to our situation - or the Sharks', but at least the Sharks finally allieviated their issue.

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04-03-2013, 05:22 PM
  #190
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And an eighth guy that's being played like a regular over the last month, after he was an afterthought the first two months of the season.
That's not so strange. That happens sometimes, especially when part of that top-6 is young. That's why you have the 7 to begin with.

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04-03-2013, 05:24 PM
  #191
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The problem with the Devils method right now is that we've got 7 guys who should be regulars. You want to be able to have 6 guys and a depth guy (or two depth guys), because then everyone knows what their role is. Having 7 regulars means that everyone is uncomfortable in their skates.

Interchangeable pieces is a good thing. Interchangeable pieces with extra pieces means none of them fit quite right.

Now, granted, this isn't so much Lou's fault as it is a consequence of Tallinder's injury last year, which is why we have the extra pieces. It's Lou's fault insofar as he chose not to deal with it last summer. But, on the other hand, it does mean the team has good injury depth, which is why we never tried to fix it I suspect.
That's getting back into guessing at what the psyche of the players are, which we have no real way of knowing.

The defense should have played great when Tallinder was hurt, if this was the case, but I think the defense has looked pretty much the same all season.

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04-03-2013, 05:25 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Wouldn't DeBoer and Lou, guys who are around the team every day, have a better idea if scratching defenseman is "awful for chemistry" than any of us? Just a thought.
You're right. They have official positions with a hockey team so they know everything. We are just dumb fans who know nothing.

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04-03-2013, 05:25 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Status Quo View Post
Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice now

There were opportunities to do other trades, but cost was too much in terms of Devils' future.
Essentially what I expected. Looking at the prices other teams paid makes me glad that Lou didn't wade into that market.

Sullivan is fine as a depth move, and hopefully one of our middle 6 tweeners that Lou has stockpiled will pay off.

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04-03-2013, 05:38 PM
  #194
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We added a player for the least valued asset any team can have. It's a 7th rounder. I really can't believe the uproar.

We weren't going to draft the next Gretzky with that pick.

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04-03-2013, 05:42 PM
  #195
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We added a player for the least valued asset any team can have. It's a 7th rounder. I really can't believe the uproar.

We weren't going to draft the next Gretzky with that pick.
Some people acted as if the Kings did last year (when they picked the Jersey kid that slipped all the way to the Mr. Irrelevant spot).

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04-03-2013, 05:46 PM
  #196
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Kind of a meh trade in my opinion. Lou is continuing his annual Devils reunion tour, and Sullivan is quality depth and veteran grit. But at this point in his career we shouldn't expect him to be an impact player.

Still, the price was definitely right. No risk at all, and the potential for a medium reward.
See it as low risk attempt to infuse more scoring until Kovy returns, and more forwards options come playoff time. Sit the guys who aren't performing for those that do.

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04-03-2013, 05:47 PM
  #197
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well...I wonder if maybe getting past this trade deadline will get them riled up. Let's Go Devils. Clarky, how about a little bit that ole time hockey huh?!

Lets get ready to win ourselves a Cup boys!!!! woohooo!!!!!!!

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04-03-2013, 05:48 PM
  #198
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We added a player for the least valued asset any team can have. It's a 7th rounder. I really can't believe the uproar.
I don't think it's so much Sullivan/7th, but disappointment that nobody else was brought in and/or the logjam at defense wasn't resolved.

Having 8 D after the deadline hasn't been unusual under Lou. In 2003, he brought in Richard Smehlik for depth purposes when we already had Stevens/Nieds/Rafalski/White/Daneyko/Tverdovsky/Albelin. It'll be much easier to trade somebody like Tallinder next year.

And without the 7th rounder, our staff can beat the other teams to the bars. I'm not even joking.

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04-03-2013, 05:57 PM
  #199
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I've always been a fan of SS, but that was before he was where he is in his career right now

Pretty meh, but hey he still rocks the throwback CCM helmet!

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04-03-2013, 06:23 PM
  #200
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I have to love Sullivan, if only for the notorious "fan karma" incident.

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