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Penguins @ Rangers 4/3/13 - Byron Boy's JAM Session!

View Poll Results: Three Stars of the Game?
Ryane Clowe 252 96.92%
Derick Brassard 230 88.46%
John Moore 57 21.92%
Henrik Lundqvist 33 12.69%
Martin Biron 4 1.54%
Carl Hagelin 2 0.77%
Byron Boy 131 50.38%
Rick Nash 2 0.77%
Anton Stralman 3 1.15%
Ryan McDonagh 11 4.23%
Dan Girardi 4 1.54%
Taylor Pyatt 2 0.77%
Ryan Callahan 2 0.77%
Brad Richards 21 8.08%
Derek Stepan 10 3.85%
Steve Eminger 1 0.38%
Michael Del Zotto 2 0.77%
Darroll Powe 4 1.54%
Arron Asham 3 1.15%
Mats Zuccarello 7 2.69%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-03-2013, 11:32 PM
  #326
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
I agree that people need to put the game in perspective. I have no problem with people enjoying the win -- its been a long time coming and we certainly deserved it. But my main issue with the huge swing from "OMG WORST TRADE EVER" to "OMG SATHER IS A MAGICIAN" is that expectations will be raised way too high for these players and that the first hint of a slump/mistake and these guys/the trades will be seen as **** all over again.
My thoughts exactly.

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That said, I don't get why you don't like Brassard or the Gaborik trade. I normally respect your reasoned posts - even if I disagree with the overall conclusion, I at least understand how you got there or what your perspective is. You're one of the few that actually gives substantive rationale for things and doesn't seem to get hyperbolic. But seriously, what specifically don't you like about the Gabby trade? Got a really solid 3C, a solid RW'r, the cap space to keep Clowe, and a solid 5/6d with top 4 upside. I don't understand what else you could have expected to get out of a Gaborik trade other than a 1st rounder (which was basically Moore).

And specifically what about Brassard don't you like as a 3C? Is it the cap hit? Is it that you don't see him as a good fit in the Torts system? I don't get it. He had big expectations on him when he entered the league, and so far he's failed to live up to them fully, so I can see that -- but even if he just stays a 40+ pt 3C for the Rangers, that's huge. I don't know that I could name many (any?) 3Cs in this league who consistently put up 40-45 pts. They kept personnel that him not being amazing defensively doesn't kill their PK... Just not understanding the Brassard hate unless its just disappointment based on what people thought he'd be.
I don't like dumb, inefficient players, and that's what Brassard has always struck me as. I don't evaluate offensive players simply by their stats. That is, of course, important, but you can't understand how strong a player is if you go only on his goal and assist totals, because you aren't getting the story of what he is doing offensively all those trips down the ice when the puck doesn't end up in the net.

Brassard's a poor decision maker with the puck. He wastes a lot of offensive zone opportunities, and he turns the puck over a lot. There is no doubt that he has a lot of talent, but I don't like wasteful players. 50 point players who do more to harm your team than to help it are not uncommon. Hell, you can even find 70 point players that fall into that category, and we should know; we've had two of them in Gomez and Jokinen.

Plus, it isn't as if he's a notable defender. And at 25, the ship has most likely sailed on his "potential." IMO, Ken Hitchcock is a terrific coach, and Brassard struggled mightily under him.

He's not good enough defensively to be a shutdown center, and he's an inefficient offensive player. Where does he fit in? I don't think guys like this make for an intelligently-constructed roster, and I feel that they should be avoided. Granted, I felt the same way about Gaborik, but Gaborik is still a 40 goal scorer as recently as last season.

If the trade was Gaborik and the other crap for Moore, Dorsett, and a 1st, I'd have had no qualms.

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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Weren't you gloating about Jeff Halpern scoring a goal like two days ago?
You know, if you want to criticize my opinion on Halpern, go for it. But you know damn well that I wasn't gloating about him scoring a goal. Who cares if he scores any goals? He's a $700k faceoff man and penalty killer, and he did exactly what was asked of him. I was just pointing out, again, how Halpern is good enough for a team much higher in the standings than this team is. I don't even understand the comparison you're making, since Halpern has been consistently better than Boyle all season long at the only thing besides faceoffs that Boyle isn't atrocious at: penalty killing.

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04-03-2013, 11:33 PM
  #327
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Wow. Not only was that the most enjoyable win of this year, it was up there with the winter classic victory last season (we always managed to sneak by last year. Seldom domination).

Every single player was good. We even had a fight and Asham pummeled him. It was a perfect game.

I'm not going to comment on whether this is a turn around game or whether these trades made us better. But I will say one thing. If there is anything this organization is good at, it's keeping up unbearably negative consistencies. Every top free agent, big trade, or top prospect call up scores in his first or second game, and then fades away in a big way.

Shanahan
Drury
Gomez
Naslund
Gaborik (the lone exception to fading away)
Richards
Clowe
Moore
Brassard
Nash (been good since. Long term still unclear)
Higgins
Frolov
Korpikoski
Miller
Kreider

And it keeps going on. Nobody should be declaring victory just yet.

For tonight though enjoy, it simply does not get much better then that. Total domination everywhere.

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04-03-2013, 11:38 PM
  #328
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Frankly, if they can repeat last year I'd be happy considering how awful they've looked so far save for a few games. Getting another shot with that type of roster after the idiotic dismantling would be among the biggest get out of jail free card Sather will ever get.
I was talking about the Penguins...

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04-03-2013, 11:40 PM
  #329
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I was talking about the Penguins...
Yeah that makes sense now that you mention it. NYR had a similar problem - they killed it for the regular season and ran out of gas in the playoffs.

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04-03-2013, 11:49 PM
  #330
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I missed the game unfortunately, anyone know how I can re-watch it online? It was on NBC and they don't replay games, MSG has the Knicks on and no Rangers In 60.

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04-03-2013, 11:53 PM
  #331
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It was a great win but who knows what this means. If you're not happy now go take a look at the isles GDT for this game and surely you'll come away smiling. I was led there by curiosity.

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04-03-2013, 11:58 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
If the trade was Gaborik and the other crap for Moore, Dorsett, and a 1st, I'd have had no qualms.
While I agree with you on the value in the trade, it's obvious to me that's what the market was for Gaborik. Comparing what Pominville returned, the cap space has become a scarce resource next season.
I was also surprised by what Brassard displayed tonight, hoping it's a change of scenery or the fact that he is not top 6 has relieved the pressure.

I made my peace with the trade.

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04-04-2013, 12:02 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
While I agree with you on the value in the trade, it's obvious to me that's what the market was for Gaborik. Comparing what Pominville returned, the cap space has become a scarce resource next season.
I was also surprised by what Brassard displayed tonight, hoping it's a change of scenery or the fact that he is not top 6 has relieved the pressure.

I made my peace with the trade.
Plus Brassard addresses a huge need -- depth. The 1st round pick does not do that.

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04-04-2013, 12:02 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
You mean it hasn't happened in a long time outside of every game this season where he's been our best PKer with Callahan and a great defensive forward. I understand that you must've missed that.
What a game. Dam officially burst. We had a richards sighting, Boyle stopped skating in mud and actually made offensive plays, Gab did more for us by not being than he did all year being here for us. Unfortunate bc he was a great player but wow this...now THIS is a "bad" hockey team once more


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04-04-2013, 12:03 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
What a game. Dam officially burst. We had a richards sighting, Boyle stopped skating in mud and actually made offensive plays, Gab did more not being for us than he did all year being here for us. Unfortunate bc he was a great player but wow this...now THIS is a "bad" hockey team once more
Boyle has never skated in mud. To believe that would mean you have never watched him play. He's a very good skater for his size and about average for speed around the league. He was barely a couple of steps behind Hagelin on one fast break play.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 04-04-2013 at 12:14 AM.
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04-04-2013, 12:04 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I don't like dumb, inefficient players, and that's what Brassard has always struck me as. I don't evaluate offensive players simply by their stats. That is, of course, important, but you can't understand how strong a player is if you go only on his goal and assist totals, because you aren't getting the story of what he is doing offensively all those trips down the ice when the puck doesn't end up in the net.

Brassard's a poor decision maker with the puck. He wastes a lot of offensive zone opportunities, and he turns the puck over a lot. There is no doubt that he has a lot of talent, but I don't like wasteful players. 50 point players who do more to harm your team than to help it are not uncommon. Hell, you can even find 70 point players that fall into that category, and we should know; we've had two of them in Gomez and Jokinen.

Plus, it isn't as if he's a notable defender. And at 25, the ship has most likely sailed on his "potential." IMO, Ken Hitchcock is a terrific coach, and Brassard struggled mightily under him.

He's not good enough defensively to be a shutdown center, and he's an inefficient offensive player. Where does he fit in? I don't think guys like this make for an intelligently-constructed roster, and I feel that they should be avoided. Granted, I felt the same way about Gaborik, but Gaborik is still a 40 goal scorer as recently as last season.

If the trade was Gaborik and the other crap for Moore, Dorsett, and a 1st, I'd have had no qualms.
Disagree on Brassard. He's not the smartest player, but that doesn't mean he can't be effective in the right role. I think he fit in nicely on the third line, and, of course, he looked creative on the PP. He obviously has some fantastic vision on the ice. He adds skill and speed through the neutral zone, and speed at center. This team has lacked speed through the neutral zone and on the rush all season.

Play him decent minutes at even strength. Let him work his offensive skills on the PP. That's all this team needs to get from Brassard, and it makes them deeper. Who says a 3rd C has to be a "shutdown" center? He's a skilled player, and generally, the best teams have skill on all 3 lines.

By the way, I think Richards is an ideal mentor for Brassard. Brassard emulated Richards a little, tonight. Obviously the sample size is tiny, but he's always had flashes. Change of scenery and playing under a center like Richards could potentially lead to a change in his performance, long term.

Personally, I've liked both these deals since they were announced, so you can't throw me into the "bi-polar" crowd. I had certain expectations as to what these players would bring to the lineup, and they brought it. Hopefully they can continue to do so. No need to be such a debbie downer about it. If all hell breaks lose, hey, let me know, and I'll take my serving of crow.

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04-04-2013, 12:06 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Boyle has never skated in mud. To believe that would mean you have never watched him play. He's a very good skater for his size and about average for speed around the league. He was barely a couple of steps behind Hagelin on one fast break play.
I reiterate Boyle finally stopped skating in mud this year. Loving the irrational troll bait condescension. My suspicion is you like him too much to accept criticism which is understandable we all do that sometimes


Last edited by JeffMangum: 04-04-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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04-04-2013, 12:06 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Boyle has never skated in mud. To believe that would mean you have never watched him play. He's a very good skater for his size and about average for speed around the league. He was barely a couple of steps behind Hagelin on one fast break play.
Come on, dude. He's slow, he has no acceleration, and he runs out of gas very quickly. This guy is a pylon. He's quickly ascending up the ranks of my personal Rangers Hall of Shame. Granted, it's not his fault that he gets so much ice time, but he does, and it infuriates me.


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04-04-2013, 12:07 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Cmox View Post
It was a great win but who knows what this means. If you're not happy now go take a look at the isles GDT for this game and surely you'll come away smiling. I was led there by curiosity.
thanks for pointing out that thread.

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04-04-2013, 12:07 AM
  #340
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looked good tonight. hopefully he can keep it up so i don;t have to worry about him being analogous to christensen on the thrashers from the hossa to pens trade.

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04-04-2013, 12:07 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I don't even understand the comparison you're making, since Halpern has been consistently better than Boyle all season long at the only thing besides faceoffs that Boyle isn't atrocious at: penalty killing.
Was literally about to quote this lol then I saw this
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Come on, dude. He's slow, he has no acceleration, and he runs out of gas very quickly. This guy is a pylon. He's quickly ascending up the ranks of my personal Rangers Hall of Shame. Granted, it's not his fault that he gets so much ice time, but he does, and it infuriates me.
To be fair he's not atrocious defensively and I liked Boyle going into this year but I also really really liked Gabs too I'm willing to go by what I see and I see a craptastic Boyle most of this year

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04-04-2013, 12:08 AM
  #342
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You couldn't have scripted this game in a movie of you wanted to.

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04-04-2013, 12:08 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Plus Brassard addresses a huge need -- depth. The 1st round pick does not do that.
In absolute terms, it's the right value based on what we heard the Rangers were expecting early on.
3 assets and no cap dump.
The players were a little underwhelming to me. But it is what it is, they are Rangers now.

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04-04-2013, 12:09 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
You know, if you want to criticize my opinion on Halpern, go for it. But you know damn well that I wasn't gloating about him scoring a goal.
Well I guess it was coincidental that it occurred immediately after he scored his goal.

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He's a $700k faceoff man and penalty killer, and he did exactly what was asked of him. I was just pointing out, again, how Halpern is good enough for a team much higher in the standings than this team is.
Yep, and far more teams higher in the standings thought they'd rather not.

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I don't even understand the comparison you're making
Come on, an elite mind like you?

Obviously I found it ironic you were objecting to people gloating over Boyle performance while you where gloating over Halpern's. That was of course back when I thought that was indeed what you were doing.

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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Halpern has been consistently better than Boyle all season long at the only thing besides faceoffs that Boyle isn't atrocious at: penalty killing.
Why is it that when you mention Halpern you fawn over his faceoff ability, but when never mention it in regards to Boyle?

Rhetorical question.

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Last edited by JeffMangum: 04-04-2013 at 12:11 AM. Reason: Come on
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04-04-2013, 12:09 AM
  #345
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looked good tonight. hopefully he can keep it up so i don;t have to worry about him being analogous to christensen on the thrashers from the hossa to pens trade.
that being said, he has shown a lot more promise throughout his young career than christensen ever did

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04-04-2013, 12:10 AM
  #346
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I ripped on Brass, and probably will do so sometimes if he plays like how I expect him to consistently, but I jumped out of my seat on his pass to Clowe on the PP. That was absolutely fantastic vision.

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04-04-2013, 12:12 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
I reiterate Boyle finally stopped skating in mud this year. My suspicion is you like him too much to accept criticism which is understandable we all do that sometimes
Like him too much? No. I think he's a solid 4th liner who can fill in on the 3rd line. I merely don't hate him like some people on here irrationally do.

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04-04-2013, 12:13 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
In absolute terms, it's the right value based on what we heard the Rangers were expecting early on.
3 assets and no cap dump.
The players were a little underwhelming to me. But it is what it is, they are Rangers now.
Well, to me, the big player is Moore. He has a nice bit of potential. If Brassard can fulfill half of what he was expected to as a rookie, we get even more. I'm OK with the players. I like Moore a lot. Have for some time.

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04-04-2013, 12:14 AM
  #349
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Knock off the personal attacks.

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04-04-2013, 12:16 AM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Well, to me, the big player is Moore. He has a nice bit of potential. If Brassard can fulfill half of what he was expected to as a rookie, we get even more. I'm OK with the players. I like Moore a lot. Have for some time.
He did look good tonight. What a breath of fresher compared to Hamrlik.
Maybe I was more mad that they didn't get Savard, thought he was a great fit.
Waiting to see what this kid Dorsett looks like in 4 weeks.

Edit: And yes I agree on Brassard, if can be more consistent and more focused, he would be a great addition. Maybe because he is not expected to be the savior here would help him.

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