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[NAS/WAS] Martin Erat and Michael Latta for Filip Forsberg

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04-03-2013, 10:17 PM
  #401
RA9
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Originally Posted by danmcn12 View Post
Maybe hit 50?!?!!? He is a constant 50-60 point player on the Predators, a team whose best offensive player, aside from Erat, has been Weber. The best players he's played with is what, JP Dumount, Karyia for a year, and timonen? The same crap happened with Nash last off season, who he plays with IS a big deal. All this thread is proving is Erat is criminally underrated.
that's very true actually. but he isn't worth forsberg atm. but i guess if washington really wants to make a playoff push it's okay.

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04-03-2013, 10:27 PM
  #402
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It's true that Erat is proven and Forsberg is unproven, but I think that you need to look at the fact that Forsberg isn't even a year removed from being a 1st-round pick and hasn't done anything to lower his value. This is not much different than simply trading a 1st-round pick for Erat, IMO. Would you have traded a 1st-rounder for Erat and Latta, especially an 11th-overall pick? I think that that's why this looks like a steal for Nashville to most people.

This sort of makes up for the Preds dealing away their 1st last year for Gaustad. They now get the sort of player that they would've taken, themselves, in that same draft, and quite a bit higher than they would've picked. Gaustad is nice, but they really needed to get a top forward prospect out of last year's draft and, now, they sort of have. Whether Forsberg meets his potential or not, it's exciting for the organization and fans to at least have a player like him to hope for and look forward to.

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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Maybe there is good reason 10 gm's passed on him last June. Maybe the Caps found out what that reason was these last 9 months.
It's possible, but 10 GMs passed on Kopitar, too. I can't help but think of him, since there are some similarities. Kopitar was thought to go about 5th overall and slipped to 11th; Forsberg was thought to go about 5th overall and slipped to 11th. Some had doubts about Kopitar because of the competition level that he grew up playing against; some seem to be de-valuing Forsberg because he's been playing well in a tier-2 league. I'm not comparing them as players, since there are quite a few differences (position, size, etc.), but there will be many more players who were passed over by handfuls or even dozens of GMs and become impact players in the NHL. Forsberg may or may not be one of the next ones. We'll have to wait and see.


Last edited by Osprey: 04-04-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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Old
04-03-2013, 10:42 PM
  #403
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This looks like a ******** trade by Washington. Forsberg has the potential to become a 70-75 pts winger in the NHL.

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04-03-2013, 10:49 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by sergejean View Post
This looks like a ******** trade by Washington. Forsberg has the potential to become a 70-75 pts winger in the NHL.
Yes has the potential but Erat is a 55 point player now.

Still I wouldn't have traded FF.

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04-03-2013, 11:02 PM
  #405
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Wow. Kind of unbelievable to see Erat traded. I thought for sure he'd finish his career as a Pred.

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04-03-2013, 11:13 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Bure View Post
Yes has the potential but Erat is a 55 point player now.

Still I wouldn't have traded FF.
Actually he's not been that pace this season, is only on pace for 47 points. He's looked bad at times but has played better lately.

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04-03-2013, 11:18 PM
  #407
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Caps want to win now, Preds get an elite prospect. Win win.

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04-03-2013, 11:36 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by sergejean View Post
This looks like a ******** trade by Washington. Forsberg has the potential to become a 70-75 pts winger in the NHL.
Maybe on Sids wing. Are people over looking the fact that Nashville might perfer FF because of the strong two way game? He fits what they try and do and its prevent goals.

Who exactly will be setting up Forsberg for all these potential goals?

The east and esp southeast are kind of wide open right now. Caps are adding a first line player and made thier team better.

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04-03-2013, 11:39 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by rubynj View Post
Maybe on Sids wing. Are people over looking the fact that Nashville might perfer FF because of the strong two way game? He fits what they try and do and its prevent goals.

Who exactly will be setting up Forsberg for all these potential goals?

The east and esp southeast are kind of wide open right now. Caps are adding a first line player and made thier team better.
I think Poile is more interested in Forsberg's potential to come up with Wilson, Smith, Beck, etc and be a part of a younger, skilled core.

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04-03-2013, 11:39 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
Caps want to win now, Preds get an elite prospect. Win win.
MCPHEE and LEONSIS want to win now. Caps FANS wanted a Cup, somtime in the near future. And now we wont get one.

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04-03-2013, 11:58 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Wow. Kind of unbelievable to see Erat traded. I thought for sure he'd finish his career as a Pred.
I think a lot of Preds fans figured he would, as well. Him and Legwand looked to be lifers. Solid player, and it's sad to see him go.

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04-04-2013, 12:01 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Bill_Crosby View Post
I guess the posters that called Nieuwendyk moments after he traded Neil were wrong too because they couldn't possibly know more than actual GM's eh?
HF is never wrong? A lot of overreaction on a player who hasn't played a game yet. James Neal had a few seasons under his belt before he got traded. And he's a product of Malkin, but thats for another thread.

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Originally Posted by Bill_Crosby View Post
A lot of the Swedish posters have chimed in saying Forsberg looks like the real deal in this thread. Even if he's not, which could very well be the case, is Erat the player you want to dump one of your teams top prospects for?
All I'm saying is lets see what kind of player FF turns out to be before we declare a winner. GMGM felt he was tradeable (ie not developing as a top 15 pick) so he traded him. If FF turns out to be a solid top 6 winger then Wsh loses this trade big time. If FF busts like a Gilbert Brule, then Washington wins, giving up the equivalent of a 7th round pick (nothing).

Its way too early to call a winner on this trade. The caps organization knows a lot more about Forsberg than anyone on this board, that is for certain.

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04-04-2013, 12:15 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
HF is never wrong? A lot of overreaction on a player who hasn't played a game yet. James Neal had a few seasons under his belt before he got traded. And he's a product of Malkin, but thats for another thread.



All I'm saying is lets see what kind of player FF turns out to be before we declare a winner. GMGM felt he was tradeable (ie not developing as a top 15 pick) so he traded him. If FF turns out to be a solid top 6 winger then Wsh loses this trade big time. If FF busts like a Gilbert Brule, then Washington wins, giving up the equivalent of a 7th round pick (nothing).

Its way too early to call a winner on this trade. The caps organization knows a lot more about Forsberg than anyone on this board, that is for certain.
I'd argue that HF is right more often than not. Hyperbole is a problem to be sure but if you comb through old draft/trade/FA signing threads the general consensus is usually on point with hindsight. The Leaf's brass was supposed to knew more than anyone else on this forum about Rask but that didn't stop them for trading him for Raycroft and being torn apart by it in the related thread.

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04-04-2013, 12:39 AM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Crosby View Post
I'd argue that HF is right more often than not. Hyperbole is a problem to be sure but if you comb through old draft/trade/FA signing threads the general consensus is usually on point with hindsight. The Leaf's brass was supposed to knew more than anyone else on this forum about Rask but that didn't stop them for trading him for Raycroft and being torn apart by it in the related thread.
you give us too much credit

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04-04-2013, 01:12 AM
  #415
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This might be remembered as the most lop-sided trade of 2013 in a few years...even more than the Ryder-Cole trade. Preds prove again why they are able to compete year after year regardless of the budget size.

This is a panic trade (a la Gauthier) from McPhee to save his job. WSH had a monster of a team for years to come and it was gradually destroyed after the playoff elimination by the Habs. Management misread the cause and changed everything...when in fact it was simply a hot goalie that was standing on his head that won that series. Really too bad as the Caps were the most exciting team to watch.

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04-04-2013, 01:45 AM
  #416
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I had problems sleeping tonight. And it's most certainly GMGMs fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
All I'm saying is lets see what kind of player FF turns out to be before we declare a winner. GMGM felt he was tradeable (ie not developing as a top 15 pick) so he traded him. If FF turns out to be a solid top 6 winger then Wsh loses this trade big time. If FF busts like a Gilbert Brule, then Washington wins, giving up the equivalent of a 7th round pick (nothing).

Its way too early to call a winner on this trade. The caps organization knows a lot more about Forsberg than anyone on this board, that is for certain.
If he truly believes that he has no spot as a NHL GM. Filip Forsberg is sounds better than he was when he was traded. He was one of the most important player on a team that has been stacked for years but failed to get back to Elitserien. He was dominating came 2nd in goals and averaged a point per game against the tough competition in Kvalserien. Voted Best player on silvermedal winning team at the WJC. Forsbergs value has never been higher than it was right now and he was selling him for Martin Erat. It makes no sense what so ever. Unless they truly believe Martin Erat is the missing piece for a Stanley Cup run.. and honestly.. do anyone believe that?


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04-04-2013, 01:54 AM
  #417
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I guess this absolves Pens GM Ray Shero for not taking the "Great" Filip Forsberg over Derrick Pouliot in the eyes of Caps fan's. It's times like these, I'm sure glad George McPhee is the Caps General Manager and not ours.

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04-04-2013, 02:00 AM
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordie View Post
I guess this absolves Pens GM Ray Shero for not taking the "Great" Filip Forsberg over Derrick Pouliot in the eyes of Caps fan's. It's times like these, I'm sure glad George McPhee is the Caps General Manager and not ours.
You can have GMGM and Martin Erat for Shero

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04-04-2013, 02:09 AM
  #419
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I went into acceptance stage, but back to being livid.

The only way I could be madder is if it was Kuzya.

Really, its not surprising. This team scratches Olrov(GA/20 .288) for Schultz(.917).... Oh yeah and Orlov's GF/20 is 1.7 and Schultz is .488.

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04-04-2013, 02:13 AM
  #420
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Does Martin Erat have the same value as Josh Gorges ?

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04-04-2013, 02:15 AM
  #421
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This could bite the Capitals in the ass in a couple of years. I really think Forsberg is going to be a good NHL'er. But it's good for them now. The opposite for Nashville obviously.

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04-04-2013, 02:35 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
Latta is underrated by most people here
Totally.....according to this thread...the Caps traded Erat for Forsberg straight up

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04-04-2013, 03:27 AM
  #423
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I think it's a high risk trade for Washington, but not the awful one that people are making it out to be.

First off, while Martin Erat plays for Nashville, that doesn't mean he's not an offensively gifted forward. He's no gamebreaker, but he's been remarkably consistent at hitting around or above the 50 point mark. On a lot of teams, I would say you could bump that up to close to 60 points.

Secondly, he's not a rental. If Erat was a UFA this summer, I could see why people would be screaming about this deal...but he's signed through '14-15. So that's 2 full seasons and potentially 3 playoff runs.

He is aging, so that is a legitimate concern. But with 21 points this year, his production may be down...but it's still there. I think the evidence that he asked to be traded also may point to a change of scenery giving him a spark that we haven't seen this year. It wouldn't surprise me if he's close to a ppg player for the Caps the rest of the season. He also has 46 games of playoff experience. Maybe not a huge number, but a definite plus.


The downside of the deal is that Washington traded away a prospect that could be potentially huge down the road. We all know prospects are unproven, but this could bite the Caps hard if Erat's production wanes over the next two years and Forsberg turns out to be a stud. Even if Forsberg only puts up Erat numbers, Nashville would likely still come out ahead in that regard. They'll really come out ahead if he turns into a bonafide Top 3 forward (league standards, not Nashville standards).

The wildcard in the trade is Latta. Latta could prove to be just good enough going forward to ease the pain of losing a top prospect. Latta still has another year of his ELC and is then an RFA. If Latta pans out to be a good bottom 6 guy, he wouldn't replace Forsberg, but if Erat's production remains consistent and he sticks around it could make this trade actually pretty valuable for Washington over the next several years.

Basically, Washington might win on the front end, and Nashville on the back end (and in a bigger way).

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Old
04-04-2013, 03:47 AM
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
I went into acceptance stage, but back to being livid.

The only way I could be madder is if it was Kuzya.

Really, its not surprising. This team scratches Olrov(GA/20 .288) for Schultz(.917).... Oh yeah and Orlov's GF/20 is 1.7 and Schultz is .488.
The bright side, is that Erat has better stats than Forsberg in the NHL this year. So by that metric, Caps win!!!

But really, yeah, it's a desperate job-saving attempt by McPhee. Bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BourqueBourqueBork View Post
First off, while Martin Erat plays for Nashville, that doesn't mean he's not an offensively gifted forward. He's no gamebreaker, but he's been remarkably consistent at hitting around or above the 50 point mark. On a lot of teams, I would say you could bump that up to close to 60 points.
Why is that a reasonable assumption? Just bump production up 10pts because it's not Nashville? Just look at Fisher...he for all intents and purposes, matched his career high in points right after joining Nashville, in fewer games even. And there are plenty of examples of guys who are more 'productive' in Nashville's system than elsewhere. With all of the serious talent in Washington, it wouldn't surprise me if Erat ended up buried a bit with less prime opportunities offensively, and lesser output even.

Quote:
Secondly, he's not a rental. If Erat was a UFA this summer, I could see why people would be screaming about this deal...but he's signed through '14-15. So that's 2 full seasons and potentially 3 playoff runs.
The problem is, $4.5M with a NMC isn't necessarily great value for a 31 year old ~50pt player a few years from now. So being under contract is a positive...but that contract, it really depends on what he does over the next few years i guess, but as he ages later into his 30s i doubt it's going to get better.

Quote:
The downside of the deal is that Washington traded away a prospect that could be potentially huge down the road. We all know prospects are unproven, but this could bite the Caps hard if Erat's production wanes over the next two years and Forsberg turns out to be a stud. Even if Forsberg only puts up Erat numbers, Nashville would likely still come out ahead in that regard. They'll really come out ahead if he turns into a bonafide Top 3 forward (league standards, not Nashville standards).
This is the meat of the issue, and what makes the trade so awful.

Erat is an 'okayish' 2nd line player. Forsberg is a potential impact prospect. The sort of guy who could be HUGE down the line. And in terms of floor...Forsberg has the tools to where his downside looks like that of a 2nd line winger with the size teams covet.

As a deal...that's a whole lot of upside to give up for a proven mediocre player.

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Old
04-04-2013, 04:04 AM
  #425
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Here is a different way of looking at this deal:

From Nashville: 2012 #21, Erat, Latta
To Nashville: Gaustead, 2013 4th round, 2012 #11 (Forsberg)


From Washington perspective----

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