HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Marian Gaborik to Columbus for Brassard, J. Moore and Dorsett

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-04-2013, 07:28 AM
  #151
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,778
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad London Ranger View Post
Yes I want him to be the missing link. Dubinsky was an alround stud who would play physical and bag a puck or two and he was homegrown. I think we need to be able to hang onto our own draft picks
I was a big Dubinsky fan, don't get me wrong. His offensive game has slipped since two years ago though, and he seems to float too much for a guy that should be playing an agitating brand of hockey. I miss him, but I think a lot of us overvalue him to varying degrees because of the homegrown factor.

Last year, I argued that his low goal total was likely a product of bad luck. An abnormally low shooting percentage for him. This season--albeit in a small sample--the issue remains. Maybe there's something fundamentally off about his game? I don't know. I don't see him as a banging, 50+ point player anymore. Hope I'm wrong...as I said, I loved the guy.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 08:02 AM
  #152
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,975
vCash: 500
Perfect trade and the players they received all have high value around the league. They got younger and added long term pieces for a player who was going to leave when his contract was up. Good move.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 08:32 AM
  #153
Leetch3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,451
vCash: 500
i realize people are trying to link/compare the 2 deals with clb but imo the replacement for dubinsky is clowe...similar players, similar upside, similar recent scoring struggles, etc.

Leetch3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 08:33 AM
  #154
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
i realize people are trying to link/compare the 2 deals with clb but imo the replacement for dubinsky is clowe...similar players, similar upside, similar recent scoring struggles, etc.
Except Clowe is the better player. But I agree with the premise.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 08:33 AM
  #155
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 9,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I was a big Dubinsky fan, don't get me wrong. His offensive game has slipped since two years ago though, and he seems to float too much for a guy that should be playing an agitating brand of hockey. I miss him, but I think a lot of us overvalue him to varying degrees because of the homegrown factor.

Last year, I argued that his low goal total was likely a product of bad luck. An abnormally low shooting percentage for him. This season--albeit in a small sample--the issue remains. Maybe there's something fundamentally off about his game? I don't know. I don't see him as a banging, 50+ point player anymore. Hope I'm wrong...as I said, I loved the guy.
low hockey iq. his hockey sense is weak.

initially it was his immaturity. then he matured.

then it was his role, he wasnt sure who he was. then he settled into a banger energy guy who benefited from playing with jj.

then he tried to do too much. hes not a 1c or even a 2c maybe.

then he held out. then he lost his mojo completely. center or wing??

then injuries and confusion set in. he looked lost and couldnt score.

what he is is a 3c and a darn good one but not a whole lot more.

i was never a big fan.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 08:39 AM
  #156
Leetch3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Except Clowe is the better player. But I agree with the premise.
oh no doubt imo clowe is an upgrade over dubinsky...but thats the link i make as the guy we 'replaced'.

Leetch3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 08:44 AM
  #157
dethomas07
Registered User
 
dethomas07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
i realize people are trying to link/compare the 2 deals with clb but imo the replacement for dubinsky is clowe...similar players, similar upside, similar recent scoring struggles, etc.
exactly when i saw the trade yesterday i was damn we couldve just kept the same team as last year.. but you have to look at the big picture..

center piece is Nash and Clowe both guys are game changers for gabs and dubi

then
AA Erixon for Brass, Moore and Dorsett

everything looks better then when you combined the two together hahah but we had to do something.. just look at Nash and compare him to gabs and i know who i rather have.. and much of it comes when they arent scoring points but the other things they do..

dethomas07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 09:04 AM
  #158
Xoggz22
HFB Partner
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,696
vCash: 500
It's probably been said by a CBJ fan already but enjoy the players you got. I've been a CBJ season ticket holder since the day the franchise was announced (grew up an Isles fan but don't hate me, I come in peace ).

I won't hijack the thread but if you can get consistency from Brass you'll tip the tables on this trade significantly. His problem in Columbus has always been consistency. Amazing vision, smart player and actually has a great shot (just doesn't use it). Typically terrible on faceoffs (road matchups become nightmares - or they did). He's improved but not to the point of average yet. I'm a big fan and will miss him. Great in the community and I don't think you'll find a player that loves the game more. He's not physical but hates to lose. Willing to work. He's struggled with some coaching situations and even Dad ripped into Arniel when Brass was in the press box or on the 4th line.

Moore is a great skater but needs development time. He's got a chance to be a "plus" 2nd pair guy. Can skate the puck out of danger and has a good first pass. Doesn't appear to be a high IQ guy when it comes to the offensive zone but his defensive zone play has improved. He become a factor in the numbers game in Columbus. We are very deep with young defenseman so he became expendible. Could be a really good one for you guys.

Dorsett is your typical grinder/agitator except he takes bad penalties too often. Takes penalties in the offensive zone which drove me nuts. More heart than any player I know. Do some reading on him and his childhood. Great stuff. Another community guy that is all about TEAM. He shouldn't play higher than the 3rd line. While he does show some skill, his IQ is not there and he really doesn't have much to his offensive game. Credits Prospal with his improvements. Lockerroom guy that will help provide the spark the Rangers have been missing.

So you got a bottom 6 guy with grit and heart, a potential top 4 d-man and a guy that screams top-6 center on some nights and trade me on others. Columbus could afford to move these guys as the only one playing at the time of the trade was Brass (playing very well too). They have no one like Gaborik (even if he doesn't get back to 40 goal territory). Columbus was so thin on the RW and has/had zero, zilch, no first line forwards. This trade should work well for both parties and the contracts are close enough to a wash.

Good luck and I'll be watching Brass.

Xoggz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 09:11 AM
  #159
Xoggz22
HFB Partner
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I don't think Dubinsky to Dorsett is as big of a downgrade as some think. In terms of offense, yes, and Dorsett is unlikely to ever be more than a 20-30 point guy. But he can kill penalties well, forecheck like a man possessed, is gritty as extra course sandpaper and is the ultimate team player. He's just a terrific guy to have around, and while he's doesn't have Dubinsky's pure talent, I think he's less "replaceable" than Dubinsky. It's why the Columbus fans were shocked and distraught over his departure.

When we acquired Brandon Prust, most of our posters didn't think too much of it. We were just psyched to lose Kotalik and Higgins. Prust turned out to be the best player in the deal and a key piece of our success. I really believe that Dorsett, when he returns, can have a similar impact.
Having watched Dorsett since he came into the league I would have to disagree with the bolded. I'm not hear to argue, just my opinion. Dorsett and Dubinsky both have heart and are team first guys. Dubinsky has much higher offensive potential (and historical data to verify) and the fact he's a center that wins a high percentage of faceoffs is a big difference to me. Dorsett is worthy of getting an A on his jersey. He's a true high energy guy but could never be confused with substituting in the top 6 (Dubinsky would be less out of place but probably not where he belongs either).

I love Dorsett but would argue that Dubinsky brings more to the table. Both have a role and play it well so in that regard I woudl agree with you. My biggest gripe with Dorset is the penalties he takes. Maybe that's jaded me. Great guy for the team and I'm sorry to see him go but I just woudn't personally put him close to Dubinsky.

Xoggz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 09:39 AM
  #160
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,778
vCash: 50
Awards:
I don't know, watch Dubinsky for a year or two. If he proves to be the Dubinsky we saw last year, then I don't know if you'll feel the same way. Like I said, he's a player I liked, but he brings his own set of frustrations.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 09:44 AM
  #161
Saad Panda
Registered User
 
Saad Panda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: C-BUS
Country: Micronesia
Posts: 11,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
A Little backround info from a Columbus fan: Thought this might be helpful.
Brassard- Taken 6th overall 2 GMs ago. Was a highly-touted, dynamic, high-scoring junior player. Expectations were high from the start. Played well in his time in the AHL, and gave a sense of his potential not just there, but in his rookie season that saw him post 25 points in 32 games at the NHL level. Got his shoulder ripped out of socket in a fight with James Neal, and he never looked the same really. During those 32 games he was hands down our best player. Even over Nash. Showed heart, and creativity that we had hoped for.

Since then, it's been a different story. He's hinted at being the player that we saw, but couldn't keep it together. Was in Hitch's doghouse, and couldn't put up anything offensively. Hitch got fired, and Claude Noel stepped in as interim coach. Brassard's game took off under Noel. He was everywhere. Then we let go of Noel in lieu of Scott Arniel. Brassard disappeared again under Arniel, and subsequently was in another coach's doghouse. Arniel was replaced with Richards at the halfway point last year, and Brassard ended the season once again picking up his play. IIRC he recorded 29 points in his final 33 games.

So you can see how he can be a maddening player for fans. Oozes skill, but only would show up in that way every now and then, and doesn't really bring much in other facets of the games. His spikes in production came at the end of two different seasons while in the midst of two coaching changes. Enigmatic to say the least. This season he has merely been serviceable, not reaching the point production levels that we've seen, yet not in the doghouse while being a good teammate. He's a great guy, and I'm sad for him to go mostly because he seemed to want to be part of the culture change. Gave a very heartfelt interview at the end of our 2-1 OT win against Anaheim on Sunday, saying how much they wanted to get to the post-season. However, it seems like he will be a good fit in NY, and I was happy to see him have a big night tonight.

John Moore- Wonderful kid. Week to the day older than me, so for whatever reason I've always liked him. He's an intelligent person. Great at interviewing, and a very ernest and humble guy. You want players like Johnny to succeed. He has a great head on his shoulders.

He's as fluid of a skater as you'll see. He doesn't have the best mind for the game, so his skating ability really helps him. He has other great tools he's a good passer and has improved his d-zone play leaps and bounds. He was touted as a smooth offensive defenseman early on, but he's turned his development into a capable puck mover who doesn't do much offensively, but is reliable in his own zone. Wish he would use his shot more, however. He won the hardest shot competition while he was in Kitchener (I believe he clocked in at 98 mph), but you wouldn't ever know that by watching him play because he's simply not a shooter, as nice as it was to see him score tonight.

All in all, he's a guy you want to do well, and he's got the tools and the mindset that a pro needs to be successful. Probably doesn't have top-pairing potential anymore, but certainly is a guy who won't hurt you on your 2nd pair.

Derek Dorsett- This was the biggest shocker. Half-expected Moore and Brassard to be on the move, as we have depth on defense and Brassard was simply expendable to upgrade our scoring. Dorsett on the other hand was one of the biggest locker room presences that our organization has ever had. Always played with heart, and ALWAYS stuck up for teammates. Developed a surprising scoring touch last season, and now has potential to hit 20 goals sometime in his career. It was such a shot to the gut when he went out for the season. Seemed like our team came together to win games for him in a way.

He will undoubtedly lead your team in PIMs when he returns, and could wear an "A". Our fans always thought that he took bone-headed penalties, which, yes he did, but it was always out of grit and will. He's a guy that will do anything to win, and is actually a very good penalty killer. Another guy who wanted to be here for the culture change, and it's sad to see him gone.
Hint: there's a little 'quote' button on the bottom right corner of every post. Saves the hassle of copying and pasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
thanks i hope Gaborik does well for you. his time has ended here. he has played well. you guys are getting a goal scorer and a guy who is streaky but when he is on he is on... i love Dorsett. one of my favorite players when he was on the Jackets.. i also like Boll. i was kinda hoping for him as part of the deal. i like what i seen from Moore. havent seen much of him. i feel Brassard will breakout here like Voracek did in Phily.. good deal for both teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrowne View Post
I sincerely appreciate this analysis from am obvious dedicated fan of the Jackets. I really hope the best for Gaborik, I think he'll flat out fly on your team now that he's away from Torts.

Thanks for the info - Cheers.
I'm happy to give you things from my angle; I think it's only fair since these are three guys that no one outside of Columbus knows a whole lot about. Really can't stress enough how well I hope they do in NY. I was only 10 when the Jackets came to town, but my dad is from Islip and grew up a Rangers fan, so I remember when I was young that's the team I had a connection to. Strange how things work out Nash was a childhood hero for me, but adding three players that I'm fond of really makes me want to cheer for the Rags. Can't wait to be in the East next year.

Saad Panda is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:20 AM
  #162
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,214
vCash: 500
Cant wait until Gaborik scores 2 tonight in Nashville and half the board loses it.

lol

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:21 AM
  #163
a tribe cq
Registered User
 
a tribe cq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PApKNYR View Post
am I the only one that loves this trade?
im guessing not any more at this point

a tribe cq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:26 AM
  #164
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Cant wait until Gaborik scores 2 tonight in Nashville and half the board loses it.

lol
I hope he does well. I have no ill will towards Gabby or the Blue Jackets at all. I hope the deal works out for both teams. I also LOVE JD. Very happy that Columbus brought him in to oversee their Hockey Operation. It's a good hockey area, just needs a good team for a few years and they will have a ton of support. Good for the sport.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:28 AM
  #165
KRM
Registered User
 
KRM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Gothenburg
Country: Sweden
Posts: 11,110
vCash: 500
Still surprised about the trade but really glad we got Brassard in the deal.

KRM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:35 AM
  #166
IfYouCantEtemJoinEm
so hot right now
 
IfYouCantEtemJoinEm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 4,169
vCash: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Cant wait until Gaborik scores 2 tonight in Nashville and half the board loses it.

lol
With the 6-1 win and all new guys contributing it won't be that bad of a reaction. Everyone knows what Gaborik can bring. He just wasn't cutting it here anymore and moving his salary was in the Rangers best interest.

If Gaborik didn't have a $7.5 cap hit next season or the cap wasn't going down 6 million this deal probably doesn't get made. I don't understand why people can't see that this move was highly cap influenced.

IfYouCantEtemJoinEm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:42 AM
  #167
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I don't know, watch Dubinsky for a year or two. If he proves to be the Dubinsky we saw last year, then I don't know if you'll feel the same way. Like I said, he's a player I liked, but he brings his own set of frustrations.
IMO, Dubinsky and his agent overvalued his abilities. He meant a lot to the team in terms of what he brought overall, but once he broke 50p for the first time, held out of camp to get his $ he was never the same player. He's an excellent 3rd line player that can check and score some, but the pressure of being a consistent 2nd line scorer/producer was too much for him. He flat out stunk his last year with us, and he's not fairing too much better now. It's kind of Ironic that he wound up player with his slightly better twin, R.J. Umberger.

Dubinsky @ 2.5-3M is fine, @4M+ is ridiculous.

NikC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:45 AM
  #168
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh Thats Nashty View Post
With the 6-1 win and all new guys contributing it won't be that bad of a reaction. Everyone knows what Gaborik can bring. He just wasn't cutting it here anymore and moving his salary was in the Rangers best interest.

If Gaborik didn't have a $7.5 cap hit next season or the cap wasn't going down 6 million this deal probably doesn't get made. I don't understand why people can't see that this move was highly cap influenced.
I dont either? Let's say Gaborik had a great season this year, he most likely would have been a candidate to be traded in the off season for the exact same reason.. the Cap!

We might have gotten a slightly better deal in the offseason if he were producing, but the fact that he only scored 2g in his last 20+ games, along with the fact that we needed a change to make the playoffs expedited things.

NikC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:48 AM
  #169
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,941
vCash: 500
From: @markhmasters
Sent: Apr 3, 2013 6:04p

Nonis on NYR: 'I think they added some pieces that will help them over a long period of time'

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/markhmasters/stat...71210042220544

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:49 AM
  #170
Gardner McKay
Moderator
Cupcake schedule.
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SoutheastOfDisorder
Country: United States
Posts: 12,345
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
low hockey iq. his hockey sense is weak.

initially it was his immaturity. then he matured.

then it was his role, he wasnt sure who he was. then he settled into a banger energy guy who benefited from playing with jj.

then he tried to do too much. hes not a 1c or even a 2c maybe.

then he held out. then he lost his mojo completely. center or wing??

then injuries and confusion set in. he looked lost and couldnt score.

what he is is a 3c and a darn good one but not a whole lot more.

i was never a big fan.
ODC, why are you never around any more??

But yeah, he has essentially become a 4 mill 3rd line C.

__________________
"In the roll of the cosmic dice you win one heart and lose it twice before you know"
Gardner McKay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:54 AM
  #171
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 24,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @markhmasters
Sent: Apr 3, 2013 6:04p

Nonis on NYR: 'I think they added some pieces that will help them over a long period of time'

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/markhmasters/stat...71210042220544
List of players Nonis acquired through trade while GM for Vancouver:

Roberto Luongo
Willie Mitchell
Lukas Krajicek
Mika Noronen
Keith Carney
Tommi Santala
Eric Weinrich
Taylor Pyatt
Brent Sopel
Brian Smolinski
Ryan Shannon
Marc Chouinard
Jeff Cowan
Kris Beech
Byron Ritchie
Aaron Miller
Jan Bulis

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #172
DMPD
Offseasons Greetings
 
DMPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 21,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
List of players Nonis acquired through trade while GM for Vancouver:

Roberto Luongo
Willie Mitchell
Lukas Krajicek
Mika Noronen
Keith Carney
Tommi Santala
Eric Weinrich
Taylor Pyatt
Brent Sopel
Brian Smolinski
Ryan Shannon
Marc Chouinard
Jeff Cowan
Kris Beech
Byron Ritchie
Aaron Miller
Jan Bulis
If an NHL GM says it was a good trade, it was a good trade!

__________________
DMPD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 11:02 AM
  #173
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 24,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
If an NHL GM says it was a good trade, it was a good trade!
Wasn't that nice of him ?

Now he'll back to trading Toronto's future for Luongo this Summer.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 11:09 AM
  #174
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,941
vCash: 500
There didn't seem to be many takers for Gaborik. Dreger was on NHL Live on Tuesday and he said there was very little buzz on Gaborik. He didn't understand it looking at the production. The Rangers and Columbus didn't open up discussions until Tuesday night. Brooks wrote something similar on Sunday. He wrote teams were more interested in Boyle than Gaborik. The Canucks were interested but they don't have much to give up. JD tried to sign Gaborik in 2009. LA tried to sign him in 2009. There wasn't a match there for a trade. Minnesota was a buyer for Pominville. They weren't going down the Gaborik road again. If Columbus wasn't a buyer,Gaborik would probably still be a Ranger.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 11:15 AM
  #175
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 24,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
There didn't seem to be many takers for Gaborik. Dreger was on NHL Live on Tuesday and he said there was very little buzz on Gaborik. He didn't understand it looking at the production. The Rangers and Columbus didn't open up discussions until Tuesday night. Brooks wrote something similar on Sunday. He wrote teams were more interested in Boyle than Gaborik. The Canucks were interested but they don't have much to give up. JD tried to sign Gaborik in 2009. LA tried to sign him in 2009. There wasn't a match there for a trade. Minnesota was a buyer for Pominville. They weren't going down the Gaborik road again. If Columbus wasn't a buyer,Gaborik would probably still be a Ranger.
Pretty much figure that out cause he was traded to Columbus. I'm sure they tried to get more for him and trade him to a more desirable location, those options were not there.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.