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Old
04-04-2013, 07:38 AM
  #76
dethomas07
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Originally Posted by Sad London Ranger View Post
yes better than last week for sure, not better than last year.

My issue is and continues with Slats.


Pascal Dupuis for Alex Bourret (who) comes to mind!
we're def a better team..

we added more depth then last year with this trade and nash is way better then Gabs..

we still have all our home grown talent on d and our all world goalie whats better then that..

clowe is lucic like when on his game and brings more then dubi did..

Brassard is similar to aa.. similar 2c upside

we got moore similar potential to Erixon potential top 4..

dorsett is raved about how he played in columbus and very similar to prust with a little more offense..

best thing after all this, which i love is..we brought in a lot of leadership and heart and sole guys.. id go to war with all that, then a pure goal scorer..

only thing that sucks is we couldnt nab a 1st rounder or at the least a 2nd.. as well as we traded assets in the nash deal only to get similar players back.. but all said and done we got a better superstar in nash over gabs and that goes a long way..

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04-04-2013, 07:53 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
we're def a better team..

we added more depth then last year with this trade and nash is way better then Gabs..

we still have all our home grown talent on d and our all world goalie whats better then that..

clowe is lucic like when on his game and brings more then dubi did..

Brassard is similar to aa.. similar 2c upside

we got moore similar potential to Erixon potential top 4..

dorsett is raved about how he played in columbus and very similar to prust with a little more offense..

best thing after all this, which i love is..we brought in a lot of leadership and heart and sole guys.. id go to war with all that, then a pure goal scorer..

only thing that sucks is we couldnt nab a 1st rounder or at the least a 2nd.. as well as we traded assets in the nash deal only to get similar players back.. but all said and done we got a better superstar in nash over gabs and that goes a long way..
Interesting that you say that Nash is better than Gaborik when Gaborik has out-scored him in every healthy season. Nash is a better dangler, but not a better scorer...

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04-04-2013, 08:04 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Interesting that you say that Nash is better than Gaborik when Gaborik has out-scored him in every healthy season. Nash is a better dangler, but not a better scorer...
And I'd still take Nash 10 times out of 10 over Gaborik. Gabby is an opportunist. If other players don't provide him with those opportunities, he isn't going to score a lot. Nash creates his own offense. I think he tries to do too much himself at times, but he can play along the boards. He can generate his own offense. His passing is better than Gabby's (Gabby is a good passer but doesn't have the puck on his stick enough to take advantage of it). Nash's shot is really good. Maybe not Gabby good, but Gabby's shot wasn't looking that great this year. Nash is younger and more physical.

I'll take a complete player, 30 goal scorer over a one-dimensional 40 goal scorer every time.

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04-04-2013, 08:06 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Interesting that you say that Nash is better than Gaborik when Gaborik has out-scored him in every healthy season. Nash is a better dangler, but not a better scorer...
yeah i mean its deff arguable, I am more then just a stat guy..i just think even when nash isnt scoring he still contributes and makes the players around him play at a higher level.. hes bigger more physical, deff has the moves.. gabs has the shot.. but overall id take nash based on size,speed, skill and intangibles..

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04-04-2013, 08:06 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Interesting that you say that Nash is better than Gaborik when Gaborik has out-scored him in every healthy season. Nash is a better dangler, but not a better scorer...
This season on the same team does not count?

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04-04-2013, 08:09 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
Honestly why I don't come on here as often as I'd like to. Some of the posts are flat out embarrassing.

I love the Gaborik trade. We got a young center, a Prust-replacement, and a decent PMD...what else did you all want? There was virtually no market for him. This was a solid return for a guy with 3 goals in 25 games.
Yeah I'm sure there is virtually no market for 40g scorers once removed, cap hit be damned. Player value is always based solely on current production.

Talk about embarrassing posts.

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04-04-2013, 08:12 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
With the Ryan Clowe move and the blockbuster (for CBJ that is) trade today, I have to say that I am nervous. I'm doubting NYR's management and the direction this team is taking. Surely we could've gotten a little bit of a better return for Gabby? When everyone first heard that Gabby was going to CBJ over on the Trade Board they were all thinking that bigger returns would be going the other way: some including our 1st we lost for Nash, some including one of Arty or Dubi...

Idk, I guess I just need to vent a little lol. I am scared for this team.
Again. I am Jarmo would have preferred to trade a high 1st back to us. Sather elected to go with a good young player who can help us now.

For those of you who are SOO crushed by not getting a 1st, essentially that is what John Moore is, a former 1st rounder who has a great shot at living up to his potential.

OR we can get pieces that won't help us for another 3-4 years.

Do I know this for sure? no but lets just call it an educated guess.

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04-04-2013, 08:15 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
It's obvious that Sather, Gorton, and Torts are trying to remodel the team so that it looks more like last year's version. I'm not as down as other people are.
And there is no reason to be down. We made some GREAT moves. Gaborik would not have helped us this year and it is a gamble if we keep him for next year. What if he really is on a downward spiral and only scores 18 next year? Sather looks like a genius.

This was a much needed move. If Gaborik scores 50 next season... then maybe it looks bad. But as long as Torts is the coach here I don't think Gaborik would have returned to form.

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04-04-2013, 08:18 AM
  #84
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The new NHL rules, changed the landscape. They were designed to increase the punishment of teams with deep pockets and star power. Rangers have taken the first steps to adjust. Three players for one is much better insurance against injury or mental fragility as well. Nice adjustment by the Rangers. Nobody was taking Richards either. He will be dealt with in the summer of 2014.

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04-04-2013, 08:29 AM
  #85
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Overall, I loved Gaborik as a ranger. He and Hank carried this team on their backs last year.

However, the team will not suffer this season from trading him away, and they brought in some depth pieces they've been undoubtably missing. I feel they can be successful if they play consistant and somebody steps up in a big way in the post season.

Thikning beyond this season, I do fear the organization gave up on Gaborik prematurely. I feel that ultimately over the long haul this team will still suffer from the same lack of scoring that's plagued them for multiple seasons now.

At the end of the day, regardless of what happens the rest of this season and playoffs (hopefully), this team will need another goal scorer in order to have success over the next 82 game season, and i do not belive he is on our roster right now.

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04-04-2013, 08:30 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by jay from jersey View Post
guys this is a good trade.once again you guys aren't looking at the big picture or the business side. Gaborik was gone next year anyway, especially once we traded for clowe. his cap hit needed to be erased to give the yoots a bump in salary as well. Make no bones about it, for slats to give up two 2nd's for clowe, bet your bottom dollar we are signing him to a 3-4 year extension. Next order of business, if you can't see the writing on the wall, brassard center, miller cener, boyle center,stepan center. Richards is going to be bought out. i'm sorry if you can't see it but the pieces are in place. Now, as far as the return it was pretty good. first dorsett is basically a prust clone. he is a better fighter, maybe a tad bit less offensive but he will kill pens,block shots, and do the dirty work. brassard is a decent 2nd/3rd line center. I believe management has crowned steps their number one and will have him work on his skating like crazy in the offseason. brassard was brought here to provide a little offense and provide a buffer for when richards is gonzo. if he doesn't work out he is a moveable ASSET down the line at the draft. Now on to Moore, the wildcard. Ranger brass must see something they love about him, that's all i could tell you. Maybe they see i McD clone or something thats truely special and him. if he pans out this trade could be a huge success for NYR. Bottom line, after the summer moves ranger brass misspent money and didn't keep guys like mitchell, prust, and feds and it bit them in the keyster, They know that, hence the moves for clowe and dorsett. That's why i can see clowe will be signed. they are not going to make the same mistake twice. For all you crying about skill and gabs give me a break. I loved the guy when he was on a hot steak too but he is a shell of his former self. He has either lost motivation playing under torts or is still injured. either way NYR is a better TEAM today then it was yesterday. Too bad real life is not a video game, richards gaborik and nash would have 300pts as a line, but in the real world if it's broke this long then it's really broke. sometimes a better part has to go out to pick up the slack of 3 mediocre parts if you get what im getting at. (greater good). and just a little FYI Pyatt, asham, and perhaps boyle, our days are numbered. it's a new culture at the garden and i for one am loving it. Good luck Marian, it was a good run but time to move on. I'll be rooting for you and the rest of our former boys. Take a breath guys. we are a better unit now and harder to play against.
Not sure I see them buying out Richards, (its def possible) but I agree with all of this.

Gaborik just didn't fit. You get Clowe whos on the left so it opens up the right, and then you fill in 3 more players behind him while getting a much needed young center who can play.

Sure you lose Gabby, but there were too many little things in his game that were missing and it was driving me nuts. He wasnt scoring, and he wasnt playing in the system. To get some value back and add Clowe, currently constructed, the Rangers are a better team. I'm a little concerned about how this team will pan out long-term, especially losing so many picks. But right now this team is better. 6-1 win over Pitt or not.

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04-04-2013, 08:32 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Overall, I loved Gaborik as a ranger. He and Hank carried this team on their backs last year.

However, the team will not suffer this season from trading him away, and they brought in some depth pieces they've been undoubtably missing. I feel they can be successful if they play consistant and somebody steps up in a big way in the post season.

Thikning beyond this season, I do fear the organization gave up on Gaborik prematurely. I feel that ultimately over the long haul this team will still suffer from the same lack of scoring that's plagued them for multiple seasons now.

At the end of the day, regardless of what happens the rest of this season and playoffs (hopefully), this team will need another goal scorer in order to have success over the next 82 game season, and i do not belive he is on our roster right now.
His name is Brad Richards. If he picks his game up, this team will be fine. With their additions, they should have (3) scoring lines. Alleviates a lot of pressure from Nash and Richards to do it all.

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04-04-2013, 08:34 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Interesting that you say that Nash is better than Gaborik when Gaborik has out-scored him in every healthy season. Nash is a better dangler, but not a better scorer...

Nash wasnt a better scorer for sure, but I reckon he is a better alrounder than Gabby.
Again, Gabby is coming off a complicated operation. I reckon a shoulder takes a year
to come back from. 6 months rehab for sure.

Gabby when semi healthy is a 40 goal scorer.

Nash has a goal every 2.33 NHL games and a point every 1.22 games, career -57
Gabby has a goal every 2.27 NHL games and a point every 1.13 games, career +85

Last year Gabby had 41 goals / 76 points + 34, this year post injury 9 goals 19 pts
Last year Nash had 30 goals / 59 point for -19, this years he has 13 goals, 30 pts

The argument that Nash is a better scorer than Gabby is actually not that solid!

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04-04-2013, 08:37 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
His name is Brad Richards. If he picks his game up, this team will be fine. With their additions, they should have (3) scoring lines. Alleviates a lot of pressure from Nash and Richards to do it all.
agree 100 pct!

our problem this year is Richards not Gabby

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04-04-2013, 08:52 AM
  #90
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If this team can score by comittee then we'll be fine.

One night isn't a good sample of that. In 8-10 games we'll have an idea.

At this point, not getting shut out 2-3 games in a row is an improvement.

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04-04-2013, 08:57 AM
  #91
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To be honest, I think we're looking at an upgraded version of what we had last year

Clowe>Dubi
Brass>Artie
Nash>Gaborik
Dorsset could be compared to Prust. Less penalty killing prowess, more offensive skill
Pyatt<Feds
Zucc>Mitchell
Moore>Bickel

We tried to take the team in a more top heavy offensive direction, and it didn't work. It looks like we're going back to the two way type of players that work for us.

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04-04-2013, 09:06 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
To be honest, I think we're looking at an upgraded version of what we had last year

Clowe>Dubi
Brass>Artie
Nash>Gaborik
Dorsset could be compared to Prust. Less penalty killing prowess, more offensive skill
Pyatt<Feds
Zucc>Mitchell
Moore>Bickel

We tried to take the team in a more top heavy offensive direction, and it didn't work. It looks like we're going back to the two way type of players that work for us.
Only Dorsett isn't dressing. so maybe our question will be answered next year.
Erixon is certainly as capable as Moore is.

Seeing Zuccarelo fitting in right now. makes me think it is a sign that the teams isn't as good as last year.

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04-04-2013, 09:07 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Thikning beyond this season, I do fear the organization gave up on Gaborik prematurely. I feel that ultimately over the long haul this team will still suffer from the same lack of scoring that's plagued them for multiple seasons now.

At the end of the day, regardless of what happens the rest of this season and playoffs (hopefully), this team will need another goal scorer in order to have success over the next 82 game season, and i do not belive he is on our roster right now.
I disagree. The teams that win are the deep teams, the ones that have a bunch of players scoring 20+. Yeah, it's great to have a guy who can score 40, but it isn't necessary. None of the last 4 cup winners had one.

Last year we were 11th in scoring. This year we were dead last before last night, and that after adding a 30 goal scorer in Nash.

It just doesn't make sense to have a top heavy team. Not with the salary cap. Pay more for guys who score more goals, pay less for everyone else and they score less goals, and you end up with a team that is easily shut down by a good defensive team. When you have depth, scoring can come from anywhere, and you are much harder to shut down.

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04-04-2013, 09:15 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Sad London Ranger View Post
Only Dorsett isn't dressing. so maybe our question will be answered next year.
Erixon is certainly as capable as Moore is.

Seeing Zuccarelo fitting in right now. makes me think it is a sign that the teams isn't as good as last year.
Zucc is much better than he was last year. He looks like a completely different player.

I love Dubi and Artie. They were great Rangers. Clowe and Brass are better, respectively.

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04-04-2013, 09:58 AM
  #95
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I see some posts combining the two Columbus trades and feeling we downgraded. But the cap space savings resulted in us acquiring Clowe so I feel that needs to be factored in to judge these trade fairly.

Nash(28) 7.8m >>>> Gaborik(31) 7.5m
Absolute no brainer that Nash is a far superior to Gaborik at this point in their careers and younger.

Anisimov 1.9m(24)=Brassard(25) 3.2m
I made it an =, but I would take Brassard and the higher cap hit.

Tim Erixon 1.75m(24) < Moore(22) .96m
Ignoring cap hit, I would still rather have Moore. He is big, has a 98mph shot and skates like the wind. Still needs some developing, but so does Erixon.

Dubinsky(26) 4.2m < Dorsett(26) 1.63m
Dorsett is more of a comparable to Prust, so I don't think its fair to compare the two. But if we are just looking at the Columbus transactions I would rather have Dorsett and 2.57m in cap savings. The reality of it is that this cap savings landed us Clowe, who is better than Dubinsky. So if we were to do a fair comparison....


Clowe(30)>>>Dubinsky(26)
Still not sure what Clowe is going to be signed for. I am personally hoping for something around 5m for 3-4years.

Dorsett(26)=Prust(29)
Jury is out on this. Some feel Dorsett is the better player, some feel Prust.

All things consider I think we upgraded or stayed equal in every comparison. And I think its important to note in these comparisons that we got nothing in return for Prust leaving. What is being left out in all of this... The picks. To make these changes, it cost us...

1st, 2nd, 3rd in 2013. 2nd in 2014(Assuming we keep Clowe). Those are a lot of picks to sacrifice, so I can see why these moves are so controversial. This Rangers team is just so young and several players in the AHL that should make the jump in the next 1-3 years, I dont think its a huge sacrifice.

For me... not seeing Gaborik float around the ice anymore and instead seeing Nash make teams look silly alone makes me happy. At the end of last season if you asked me what players I wanted off the roster, I said Gabby/Anisimov/Dubi/Mitchell. I liked Dubinsky, but once he got that 4.2 cap hit, I wanted him gone. Anisimov frustrated the hell out of me. So I am happy with these trades, but like others... thought the return would have been better. But I like this team better that last years, and I really loved last years team.

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04-04-2013, 10:01 AM
  #96
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this team got a whole lot less skilled...and for a team struggling to score goals, thats not a good thing.


I'm sorry Inferno, you're a good poster, but this blatantly wrong.

The exact opposite is the truth. I don't care if it is one game.

Gabs hasn't shown any skill for almost all season. We got back great return, for actually "glassman" ...

As of today we are a better team, if we beat the Pit again on friday it is carved in stone.

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04-04-2013, 10:19 AM
  #97
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I think this trade is just going to show how important having the right MIX of players is. Too often people look at a roster with the video game aspect in mind...

Hockey will always come down to chemistry of linemates and a team. Our mix of players was clearly wrong before.


And for what its worth, Nash is definitely a better player than Gaborik. This season should have proved that as clearly as it can.

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04-04-2013, 10:21 AM
  #98
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Now all we need to do is keep Tortorella from explaining his "system" to the new guys and we might actually keep scoring some goals.

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04-04-2013, 10:37 AM
  #99
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I find it funny that whenever a player has a breakout performance and the media asks Torts about it, his answer is usually "I told him to keep it simple, just go out and play."

Kreider last year in the playoffs. Brassard and Moore last night. Clowe.

Torts is aware that he overcoaches. He's said so himself. He just can't help himself sometimes.

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04-04-2013, 10:40 AM
  #100
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I'm sorry Inferno, you're a good poster, but this blatantly wrong.

The exact opposite is the truth. I don't care if it is one game.

Gabs hasn't shown any skill for almost all season. We got back great return, for actually "glassman" ...

As of today we are a better team, if we beat the Pit again on friday it is carved in stone.
This is absurd. Beating Pittsburgh once and maybe twice makes us a better team? No. I loved last night's win. But this team and our new players could very well fall back into mediocrity once the excitement is gone. If this team strings together a few and brings the effort and competitive edge from here on out THEN we have something to talk about.

Gaborik had to be moved, but the return we got is still a BIG question mark. Everyone needs to stop with the new shiny toy syndrome, you just set yourself up for disappointment.

How many times has someone in their first game played out of their mind then regress back to mediocrity. Lets wait and see if Clowe can keep it up and Brass can reach the potential CBJ were hoping fo

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