HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Notices

Greg Sherman & Co - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM (Part II)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-31-2013, 09:01 AM
  #226
Freudian
calmer than you are
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 26,874
vCash: 50
The big problem with trading Liles (and even Quincey) is that Avs failed to replace what they could bring when it comes to moving the puck. They even went the other direction by signing Zanon. Perhaps Avs overrated the transition game of Hunwick, Wilson and Hejda and thought we'd be ok.

Avs not getting defensive balance right is by far the biggest strike against Sherman.

Barrie being perhaps more NHL ready than expected might lessen the problem, but it's still a problem.

Freudian is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 09:06 AM
  #227
cgf
Registered User
 
cgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I think they also overlook that it was the 2nd round pick used in the JML trade that was sent to Washington, with our 1st round pick in 2012, for Varlamov.

So one could realistically look at it as

1st Rd 2012 + JML for Varlamov

If they wanted to, and I still think that's a good deal, especially considering how maddeningly frustrating JML was to watch sometimes, not that he wasn't a "Fan Favorite", he definitely was
True. I trade our 1st and JML for Varly and Hejda all day...sooner or later one of you will get the new girl reference, so I'll keep doing this, all day!

cgf is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 09:07 AM
  #228
Ivan13
Problem child
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 12,917
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
The big problem with trading Liles (and even Quincey) is that Avs failed to replace what they could bring when it comes to moving the puck. They even went the other direction by signing Zanon. Perhaps Avs overrated the transition game of Hunwick, Wilson and Hejda and thought we'd be ok.

Avs not getting defensive balance right is by far the biggest strike against Sherman.

Barrie being perhaps more NHL ready than expected might lessen the problem, but it's still a problem.
Agreed.

Ivan13 is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 10:48 AM
  #229
ABasin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Fair point, but there was really no pressing need to shed Johnny's salary from our roster, IMHO had Sherman waited at least until the next trade deadline he'd get a much better return. IMHO that was poor asset management.
I absolutely agree. I'm pretty sure I b**ched about that at the time. I had lost all hope that Sherman knew how to deal with moving assets at the deadline - from a seller's perspective. And then he pulled off the McGinn trade last year. So, I hope he can repeat it.

As for Liles, I came to the conclusion that it was a straight salary dump. Nothing more, nothing less.

ABasin is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 10:49 AM
  #230
ABasin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
The big problem with trading Liles (and even Quincey) is that Avs failed to replace what they could bring when it comes to moving the puck. They even went the other direction by signing Zanon. Perhaps Avs overrated the transition game of Hunwick, Wilson and Hejda and thought we'd be ok.

Avs not getting defensive balance right is by far the biggest strike against Sherman.

Barrie being perhaps more NHL ready than expected might lessen the problem, but it's still a problem.
I agree with this also. Sherman seems to be doing much better with his forward moves.

BTW, Barrie has excellent offensive instincts. Which IMO is something that's very hard to teach, if it is at all. He does a lot of small things well when his team has possession of the puck. Hoping he doesn't destroy the tank though.

Good young player.

ABasin is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:00 AM
  #231
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Country: United States
Posts: 17,276
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
The big problem with trading Liles (and even Quincey) is that Avs failed to replace what they could bring when it comes to moving the puck. They even went the other direction by signing Zanon. Perhaps Avs overrated the transition game of Hunwick, Wilson and Hejda and thought we'd be ok.

Avs not getting defensive balance right is by far the biggest strike against Sherman.

Barrie being perhaps more NHL ready than expected might lessen the problem, but it's still a problem.
I think these are all correct. They overrated Hunwick being able to sustain his play from the end of last year. They overrated Wilson's ability to stay healthy. They overrated what EJ is capable of offensively on his own. And most importantly they overrated the NHL readiness of Barrie and Elliott.

Either way though, it was just for this year, and ironically it could potentially land us the exact type of defenseman we would have wanted.

Foppa2118 is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 11:07 AM
  #232
Bubba Thudd
Moderator
Come At Me, Bro!
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Avaland
Posts: 11,946
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I think these are all correct. They overrated Hunwick being able to sustain his play from the end of last year. They overrated Wilson's ability to stay healthy. They overrated what EJ is capable of offensively on his own. And most importantly they overrated the NHL readiness of Barrie and Elliott.

Either way though, it was just for this year, and ironically it could potentially land us the exact type of defenseman we would have wanted.
They overrated all those things?

Or they calculated those things perfectly, in order to be in a position to snag Jones?

__________________
WhyNotUs?
Bubba Thudd is online now  
Old
03-31-2013, 01:41 PM
  #233
Colorado Avalanche
Registered User
 
Colorado Avalanche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lieto
Country: Finland
Posts: 15,070
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Yup, people forget that we cleared salary in that trade to turn around and sign Hejda. I'd take Hejda and a second round pick for Liles allday. All DAY!
True. I personally like Hejda, I think he's solid defenseman +2nd round. Done.

Colorado Avalanche is online now  
Old
03-31-2013, 01:47 PM
  #234
cgf
Registered User
 
cgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
True. I personally like Hejda, I think he's solid defenseman +2nd round. Done.

cgf is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 02:23 PM
  #235
PAZ
.
 
PAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,968
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I think these are all correct. They overrated Hunwick being able to sustain his play from the end of last year. They overrated Wilson's ability to stay healthy. They overrated what EJ is capable of offensively on his own. And most importantly they overrated the NHL readiness of Barrie and Elliott.

Either way though, it was just for this year, and ironically it could potentially land us the exact type of defenseman we would have wanted.
Barrie isn't NHL ready?

Sure he makes a few rookies mistake, but he's been our best defender at times. I was a huge advocate of Barrie last year when he didn't get any points, and while I thought he looked decent up here thought he needed more time in the A. This time around Barrie looks poised and confident out there, staying up here won't be detrimental to him.

PAZ is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 02:29 PM
  #236
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Country: United States
Posts: 17,276
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Barrie isn't NHL ready?

Sure he makes a few rookies mistake, but he's been our best defender at times. I was a huge advocate of Barrie last year when he didn't get any points, and while I thought he looked decent up here thought he needed more time in the A. This time around Barrie looks poised and confident out there, staying up here won't be detrimental to him.
Maybe you didn't realize, but we were talking about the Liles trade almost two years ago. I misspoke when referring to this season.

They we're hoping at least a couple things would turn out better offensively, but none of them really went as planned. I think they can correct it going into next season though, that's what I meant.

Foppa2118 is offline  
Old
04-01-2013, 07:27 PM
  #237
Avs_19
Peter the Great
 
Avs_19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,902
vCash: 202
Mark Spector following Pierre LeBrun and also calling out Lacroix:

Quote:
With lots of different rebuilds afoot, one that has fallen flat is in Colorado. That team doesn’t compete hard enough most nights, and head coach Joe Sacco will almost certainly pay the price this summer. So, too, could GM Greg Sherman, who is the NHL’s ghost GM — very few media members get a call returned by this guy.

From where we sit though, the problem with the Avalanche lies above in president Pierre Lacroix. He took over as Avs’ general manager from their last year in Quebec City through the Stanley Cup years in Denver. But since he abdicated the chair the Avs have made the playoffs twice in seven years, including this season’s miss.

It’s always seemed like Lacroix GMs part-time from above, a situation that seldom works. That organization needs an overhaul. There’s a nice roster base to work with in Denver, but this roster needs a fresh set of eyes and more guts on deadline day.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/spector-on-nhl/

Avs_19 is offline  
Old
04-01-2013, 08:29 PM
  #238
expatriated_texan
Freaking Loopy
 
expatriated_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Country: United States
Posts: 7,244
vCash: 50
It really is too bad that John Davidson was snatched up by the Blue Jackets. I would've loved to have had him take over for PL and breath some fresh air into this franchise. I really admire him. Hell, he could've taken over for Mike Haynes as well and I would've been doubly thrilled.

expatriated_texan is offline  
Old
04-02-2013, 07:53 AM
  #239
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,628
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
It really is too bad that John Davidson was snatched up by the Blue Jackets. I would've loved to have had him take over for PL and breath some fresh air into this franchise. I really admire him. Hell, he could've taken over for Mike Haynes as well and I would've been doubly thrilled.
This.

Av-merican is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 10:26 AM
  #240
Avs71
Registered User
 
Avs71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sherman
"I believe in this hockey team and I believe in the foundation that we have here," Sherman said. "We all believe in it, from our entire operation on down. But obviously we deserve the criticism we're getting, and I understand that. Clearly, the foundation is in place and we need to build on it."
I'm surprised he actually owed up and said the Avs deserve criticism and didn't just mention injuries and young players. Hopefully the "build on it" means not relying on all the players getting a year older next season. The last part makes it sound like clearly he has his core in place, but clearly it needs to be built on. None of this is groundbreaking, but its nice not hearing excuses and hearing this team clearly needs to be built up beyond the young guys. I really hope this means no more Zannon type signings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sherman
"part of (our) plan, one of the components of it is patience. I understand the passion of our fan base, but I'm very optimistic about the future of this hockey club."
Completely dodged the question of Sacco's job security. I would imagine if he was going to keep him around, he would have mentioned something about the short season, the injuries at the start, or some other BS excuse for why it isn't Sacco's fault. Think he means have patience to the end of this season, and then Sacco's reign is over, but the Avs will pick top 5? Would explain why he feels optimistic about the future, but needs some patience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sherman
"It was a quiet day," Sherman said. "There were several calls that I received regarding players on our team, but players on our roster that I believe in and our organization believes in. We did get inquiries throughout the day, and it shows what we have in place here. We have a very good young core.

"The foundation is very solid, and on days like today you get affirmation of that."
Sounds like he got quite a few calls on the "core," but none really on the ****** depth players. Can't fault him for not blackmailing someone into taking Zannon, but you can obviously fault him for signing him.

I thought overall he answered pretty well. Gives me hope that Sacco is just going to finish out the season, then be fired. I also wouldn't be surprised if he brought in another good UFA, as he has done that the last couple seasons (Giguere, Hejda, PAP). My real only concern now is not getting rid of Zannon.

Avs71 is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 10:55 AM
  #241
anleva
Registered User
 
anleva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,226
vCash: 500
Where are you getting these Sherman quotes from? Link?

anleva is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #242
klozge
Avs
 
klozge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Siegen, Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,996
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by anleva View Post
Where are you getting these Sherman quotes from? Link?
http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/...onto-4th-round

klozge is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 10:58 AM
  #243
S E P H
@Krzysztof_WHL
 
S E P H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Avs Country!
Country: Poland
Posts: 3,179
vCash: 50
^ Denverpost in the news article of RoB being traded

That was a good interview by Sherman and +1 respect for him. I still think he will try to the fix the defense, but we already have majority of our core here. I think we have more offensive talent than Blackhawks if you compare both teams at each rebuilding stage. Also him not answering about Sacco looks like a good sign to me, IMO because if you knew you were going to keep him you would've answered the question than look suspicious and avoid it.

S E P H is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 11:46 AM
  #244
anleva
Registered User
 
anleva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sherman
"part of (our) plan, one of the components of it is patience. I understand the passion of our fan base, but I'm very optimistic about the future of this hockey club."
Whenever I hear Sherman or Josh Kronke plead for fan patience I always wonder when their time reference point starts. For me they have been flailing as an organization since the institution of the salary cap starting after the lockout in 2004-2005. I think overall AVS fans have been pretty patient and forgiving over the 8 seasons that followed, but at this point I don't share the optimism for the future that Sherman does. While they do have a solid young core I really am not sure they have the organizational wherewithal as currently structured to build on it. Hopefully we will see an organizational shake up soon.

anleva is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 11:48 AM
  #245
TwoPadStack
Gross Misconduct
 
TwoPadStack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,076
vCash: 50
Target practice...

EXECUTIVE STAFF

E. Stanley Kroenke - Owner
Josh Kroenke - Governor
Pierre Lacroix - President & Alternate Governor
Greg Sherman - General Manager/Executive Vice President & Alternate Governor
Joe Sakic - Executive Advisor/Alternate Governor
Jean Martineau - Senior Vice President, Communications & Business Operations
Craig Billington - Vice President of Player Development/Minor League Operations
Charlotte Grahame - Vice President of Hockey Administration
Eric Lacroix - Vice President of Hockey Operations
Brad Smith - Director of Player Personnel

TwoPadStack is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 11:53 AM
  #246
Ivan13
Problem child
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 12,917
vCash: 50
I don't want to be a Sakic apologist, but I really doubt he has much of a saying in actual roster decisions.

Ivan13 is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 11:54 AM
  #247
TwoPadStack
Gross Misconduct
 
TwoPadStack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,076
vCash: 50
Oh, I agree. The title of advisor is a joke. He isn't advising anything, he's put in that role for PL and co. to try and save face. I highly, highly doubt Joe does much of anything.

TwoPadStack is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 03:02 PM
  #248
AslanRH
Eternal Optimist
 
AslanRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: West of Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 3,331
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Target practice...

EXECUTIVE STAFF

E. Stanley Kroenke - Owner
Josh Kroenke - Governor
__________________________________________________ _
Greg Sherman - General Manager/Executive Vice President & Alternate Governor
Joe Sakic - Executive Advisor/Alternate Governor
__________________________________________________ ________
Charlotte Grahame - Vice President of Hockey Administration

Brad Smith - Director of Player Personnel
Top group we are absolutely stuck with
Middle group I'd hope get at least 1 more year to see what they can do
Bottom group I cannot speak on because I do not know much about them or their roles.

All removed names are names (from the outside looking in) I have not been impressed with, or see as an area in the franchise that needs improved.

__________________
"The essence of my optimism is constructive pessimism."
Fausto Cercignani
AslanRH is online now  
Old
04-04-2013, 03:18 PM
  #249
shadow1
Registered User
 
shadow1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 10,987
vCash: 500
I like that he tried to spin off other team's inquiries as Colorado having a solid "foundation."

24 losses in 36 games. The foundation is not solid. Matt Duchene and PA Parenteau are like pieces of fine China sitting in a shack.

shadow1 is offline  
Old
04-04-2013, 03:51 PM
  #250
Freudian
calmer than you are
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 26,874
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
I like that he tried to spin off other team's inquiries as Colorado having a solid "foundation."

24 losses in 36 games. The foundation is not solid. Matt Duchene and PA Parenteau are like pieces of fine China sitting in a shack.
Would you have said the same thing about Duchene twelve months ago?

There's plenty of good pieces here and when they turn it around it'll be in a big way.

The team certainly deserve a lot of criticism for this season. The defense has been horrid and the team finds way to lose games through bad mistakes at the worst times. They can't hang on to a lead (.545 when leading after two periods). Our goalies have been more down than up.

I don't think the team is as poor as the results show. With a new coach and perhaps a one-two new players, they'll be in the playoff picture next season. They should have been this year, but they're playing with zero confidence.

Freudian is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:45 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.