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Old
04-04-2013, 10:39 AM
  #101
stokes84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post


Thanks. I've had the flu for the last 3 days... I been puking my brains out... and generally feeling like total crap.

Thanks for for cheering me up
Two entirely different things, but I'm glad you're happy.

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04-04-2013, 10:41 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Because it's so common for someone with a double digit negative +/- rating to win selkes.
He may not have won a selke, but one of our best defensive forwards we've had in a long time was Chris Drury. His career +/- in Buffalo? -2

2003-2004: +8
2005-2006: -11
2006-2007: +1


How about Mike Peca in the year the sabres went to the cup finals? +7, not exactly "lighting it up".

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04-04-2013, 10:46 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Because it's so common for someone with a double digit negative +/- rating to win selkes.
Patrice Bergeron's first 3 years in the league: +5, +3, -28
Ryan Kesler's first 4 years: -2, 1, 1, 1. Also -4 in the AHL that same first year.
Rod Brind'Amour had seasons of: -13, -9, -9, -8, -7 (excluding the -23 and -29 at the end of his career)
Kris Draper had seasons of -6, -11 (excluding the -13 near the end of his career)
Jere Lehtinen had seasons
Michael Peca had -1, -6, -1 the three years prior to winning it.
Ron Francis' career started with: -13, -25, -10, -23

Please.

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Old
04-04-2013, 10:46 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
It's not a concern because literally every Minnesota fan has said he's good defensively, and his AHL coach said he loves the kid because he hates losing puck battles. He's been regarded as a leader on nearly every team he's played for in part because of his 200' effort. Yet you're trying to claim what everyone knows to be the most useless counting stat proves otherwise. At the very least, let's wait and see how he does in Rochester before proclaiming him a bust, eh?
Of course we wait and see how he does. That was my very first sentence in this thread. Of course, that gets lost when everyone jumps down my throat for having potential hang ups with the guy. I wasn't saying the stat proved anything, just that it caught my attention as a possible concern.

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04-04-2013, 10:48 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Mergus View Post
He may not have won a selke, but one of our best defensive forwards we've had in a long time was Chris Drury. His career +/- in Buffalo? -2

2003-2004: +8
2005-2006: -11
2006-2007: +1


How about Mike Peca in the year the sabres went to the cup finals? +7, not exactly "lighting it up".
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Patrice Bergeron's first 3 years in the league: +5, +3, -28
Ryan Kesler's first 4 years: -2, 1, 1, 1. Also -4 in the AHL that same first year.
Rod Brind'Amour had seasons of: -13, -9, -9, -8, -7 (excluding the -23 and -29 at the end of his career)
Kris Draper had seasons of -6, -11 (excluding the -13 near the end of his career)
Jere Lehtinen had seasons
Michael Peca had -1, -6, -1 the three years prior to winning it.
Ron Francis' career started with: -13, -25, -10, -23

Please.

Good posts.

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04-04-2013, 11:02 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
He could be a Callahan type of player. If that doesn't excite you then...
Callahan bangs a lot, nothing I've read suggests Larsson plays with that sort of edge.

To me, this team needs a serious injection of skill on the wing in the system. If Larsson fills the biggest role in the bottom 9 well, that's great...but the returns for Vanek/Miller and all the picks better address the lack of skill on the wing in the top 6.

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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Uh, lesser leagues? Actually he has shown defensive chops in both the SEL (men's league) and AHL now. Different situation than Hodgson.
Also kind of concerning are people saying he might not be ready to step in next year with that background. I assume it's to help develop his offensive game?

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04-04-2013, 11:08 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Callahan bangs a lot, nothing I've read suggests Larsson plays with that sort of edge.

To me, this team needs a serious injection of skill on the wing in the system. If Larsson fills the biggest role in the bottom 9 well, that's great...but the returns for Vanek/Miller and all the picks better address the lack of skill on the wing in the top 6.



Also kind of concerning are people saying he might not be ready to step in next year with that background. I assume it's to help develop his offensive game?
If your team is built down the middle and the back end you hardly even need great wingers. The centers will make them better.

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04-04-2013, 11:09 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Callahan bangs a lot, nothing I've read suggests Larsson plays with that sort of edge.

To me, this team needs a serious injection of skill on the wing in the system. If Larsson fills the biggest role in the bottom 9 well, that's great...but the returns for Vanek/Miller and all the picks better address the lack of skill on the wing in the top 6.
Is it really that bad, especially if we look long term?

Potentially:

Armia
Ennis
Foligno
Larsson
Girgensons
Leino
Maybe draft pick?

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04-04-2013, 11:11 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Is it really that bad, especially if we look long term?

Potentially:

Armia
Ennis
Foligno
Larsson
Girgensons
Leino
Maybe draft pick?
Ennis/Armia are skill guys. (I'm discounting Leino now, I think the buyout happens if we're going youth movement)

The rest of that group are bottom 6 players ideally.

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04-04-2013, 11:15 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Callahan bangs a lot, nothing I've read suggests Larsson plays with that sort of edge.

To me, this team needs a serious injection of skill on the wing in the system. If Larsson fills the biggest role in the bottom 9 well, that's great...but the returns for Vanek/Miller and all the picks better address the lack of skill on the wing in the top 6.
Also kind of concerning are people saying he might not be ready to step in next year with that background. I assume it's to help develop his offensive game?
I don't think it's all that bad right now. Depending on how the draft goes, you're basically looking at:

Armia - X - X (Center could either be MacKinnon/Lindholm/Barokv/Grigs, RW Drouin/Nichushkin/Grigs)
Ennis - Hodgson - X
Girgensons - Larsson - Foligno/Tropp

If anything, they need an injection at D.

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04-04-2013, 11:18 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
I don't think it's all that bad right now. Depending on how the draft goes, you're basically looking at:

Armia - X - X (Center could either be MacKinnon/Lindholm/Barokv/Grigs, RW Drouin/Nichushkin/Grigs)
Ennis - Hodgson - X
Girgensons - Larsson - Foligno/Tropp

If anything, they need an injection at D.
I think they're pretty good there for the forseeable future

Myers/Sekera
McCabe/Pysyk
McNabb

That should probably be our top 5 by the time this team is ready to contend again.

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04-04-2013, 11:18 AM
  #112
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Larsson is what he is. Comparing him to another player is fine and all that but it doesn't mean squat. The kid will do what he will do. Even if he's Frank Selke's twin brother, he could never win a Selke award.

You guys are trying too hard to have something to say.

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Old
04-04-2013, 11:24 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
I think they're pretty good there for the forseeable future

Myers/Sekera
McCabe/Pysyk
McNabb

That should probably be our top 5 by the time this team is ready to contend again.
You're forgetting Ehrhoff. He'll still be around I would imagine.

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04-04-2013, 11:45 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
He's really the gem of the deal for the Sabres. Has been under-rated offensively at every level, and basically out produces supposedly "more skilled" peers at every level, going back to the U20 in Sweden, to the SEL as a teenager, to the AHL this year as a 20 year old rookie on NA ice for the first time. Absolute worst case, you have a 20-20 guy who wears a letter for the Sabres in 5 years, while playing in every situation and being on the ice in the final minute of every game, in every situation. Best case, you have Daniel Alfredsson 2.0 who becomes one of the key building blocks for the Sabres and he has 15+ year career. Their skill level, size and playing size are not dis-similar. Really wanted to the Sens to land this guy in his draft year and have watched him closely ever since.

He and Girgensons could very well define the character of the Sabres going forward, which is a scary proposition for the rest of the teams in the NE long-term.
Thanks for your assessment Doc. As someone who's opinion I've always valued around here, that's a solid endorsement of the kid.

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04-04-2013, 01:04 PM
  #115
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I just posted in the Hackett thread, but having seen Larsson in Houston against the Barons during the lockout I can tell you that you guys got a player in Larsson. He's not very big but he's not exactly small either. He is very gritty/chippy for a European trained hockey player. He's got a bit of pest to his game, takes the body, is a good skater, and he has some nice hands, he's a pretty decent dangler. IMO you probably got Minnesota's 4th best forward prospect behind Granlund, Zucker, and Coyle, that said I definitely see an NHL career in his future. Whether his upside is a 2nd or 3rd liner remains to be seen, but I for one wouldn't be surprised to see him as either a gritty tow way 2nd liner or a 3rd liner that can chip in offensively. It sucks that you guys dealt Pominville, but IMO you guys got a decent return when all is said and done and maybe with some luck Minnesota misses the postseason or gets knocked out in the 1st round and the 1st round pick is a rather high one in a strong draft.

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04-04-2013, 01:10 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Callahan bangs a lot, nothing I've read suggests Larsson plays with that sort of edge.

To me, this team needs a serious injection of skill on the wing in the system. If Larsson fills the biggest role in the bottom 9 well, that's great...but the returns for Vanek/Miller and all the picks better address the lack of skill on the wing in the top 6.



Also kind of concerning are people saying he might not be ready to step in next year with that background. I assume it's to help develop his offensive game?
Haha... Callahan is not a banger. He's a grinder. He goes to the corners and wins puck battles; He blocks shots; he scores dirty goals. He'll throw his weight around, but it's not his forte. Larsson, from what I've read, is of the same mold.


I agree this team needs more skill on the wings. This is only the beginning of the rebuild, though. No doubt in my mind if Regier trades Miller he's getting some scoring on the wings.

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04-04-2013, 02:01 PM
  #117
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Interesting perspective here, from those that follow him closely:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1393339

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04-04-2013, 02:04 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Haha... Callahan is not a banger. He's a grinder. He goes to the corners and wins puck battles; He blocks shots; he scores dirty goals. He'll throw his weight around, but it's not his forte. Larsson, from what I've read, is of the same mold.
Callahan is 7th in forward hits this year, 5th last year, 12th in 2010-2011 despite missing 22 games, 3rd in 2009-2010, 3rd in 2008-2009 and finished at a 7th overall pace in his first extended NHL action in 52 games.

If he didn't block shots with such reckless abandon, he'd be higher still on those lists.

If Larsson is in the same mold, I'll be over the moon, but I haven't heard anyone mention anything close to that kind of physicality.

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04-04-2013, 02:07 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Haha... Callahan is not a banger. He's a grinder. He goes to the corners and wins puck battles; He blocks shots; he scores dirty goals. He'll throw his weight around, but it's not his forte. Larsson, from what I've read, is of the same mold.


I agree this team needs more skill on the wings. This is only the beginning of the rebuild, though. No doubt in my mind if Regier trades Miller he's getting some scoring on the wings.
Haha... no

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04-04-2013, 02:37 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by cybresabre View Post
Callahan is 7th in forward hits this year, 5th last year, 12th in 2010-2011 despite missing 22 games, 3rd in 2009-2010, 3rd in 2008-2009 and finished at a 7th overall pace in his first extended NHL action in 52 games.

If he didn't block shots with such reckless abandon, he'd be higher still on those lists.

If Larsson is in the same mold, I'll be over the moon, but I haven't heard anyone mention anything close to that kind of physicality.
Larsson was known as a bulldozer back home, due to his average frame but thick build. He's a regular hitter but mostly he goes in hard to win puck battles and being in the opponent's face. Definitely a valuable player away from the puck and whose game isn't judged solely upon his production. I don't know how he has translated his game to the AHL though.

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04-04-2013, 03:35 PM
  #121
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I'll admit to being upset when I heard Larson and Hackett were coming back in the Pomminville trade. I really wanted one of their top prospects in return (Coyle or Dumba in particular) but as I watch some of the highlights of Larson and hear what wild fans have to say about him I'm pretty happy. Really looking forward to watching this kid play.

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04-04-2013, 03:37 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by cybresabre View Post
Callahan is 7th in forward hits this year, 5th last year, 12th in 2010-2011 despite missing 22 games, 3rd in 2009-2010, 3rd in 2008-2009 and finished at a 7th overall pace in his first extended NHL action in 52 games.

If he didn't block shots with such reckless abandon, he'd be higher still on those lists.

If Larsson is in the same mold, I'll be over the moon, but I haven't heard anyone mention anything close to that kind of physicality.
Semantics. His quote was pretty accurate. He does throw a lot of hits and he does catch the opposition pretty good sometimes. But By banger I meant someone like Clutterbuck, Kaleta, Rinaldo, Oshie, etc. He's not quite at that level, IMO. Feel free to disagree, though.

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04-04-2013, 03:39 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Larsson was known as a bulldozer back home, due to his average frame but thick build. He's a regular hitter but mostly he goes in hard to win puck battles and being in the opponent's face. Definitely a valuable player away from the puck and whose game isn't judged solely upon his production. I don't know how he has translated his game to the AHL though.
Thank you! I'm glad to hear that.

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04-04-2013, 03:39 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Mogilny 89 View Post
Interesting perspective here, from those that follow him closely:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1393339
My favorite comment


Koivu V.2 is back!

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04-04-2013, 03:39 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Semantics. His quote was pretty accurate. He does throw a lot of hits and he does catch the opposition pretty good sometimes. But By banger I meant someone like Clutterbuck, Kaleta, Rinaldo, Oshie, etc. He's not quite at that level.
Yeah, the BANGER definition is a little unclear I guess. He hits a lot is what I was getting at.

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