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04-04-2013, 10:33 AM
  #26
CrankyJay
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Originally Posted by S319R11S16 View Post
The thing I heard that I have the most problem with-

-He said they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects when he got there and that's why they are where they are now. Well if that's the case, then why is Darcy still here? Its his fault they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects.

Anyone else hear more they would like to add?
Because those prospects were before they arrived...see above where he said they aren't judging him on prior work.

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04-04-2013, 10:38 AM
  #27
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So now, does anyone think that this may increase/decrease the chance of Patrick Roy as the next coach?

I think increase.

More I think about it...what can it hurt? .. He's use to dealing with young players....we're not really looking to win right away...

It's a marquee name that will give credibility to the franchise and give him instant respect.

Even if he fails miserably and sucks..I think its worth the risk.

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04-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #28
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I still have faith, I will reserve judgment until after the season. They are too smart to do something idiotic like keeping Regier.

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04-04-2013, 11:04 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CrankyJay View Post
Because those prospects were before they arrived...see above where he said they aren't judging him on prior work.
I understand that but he gave him credit for picking Miller, Vanek, and Pominville in the draft.

If Darcy is going to get credit for the good selections prior to Pegula then he should get roasted for the bad ones too.

I know what they are saying to the public, but it kills me to even think that they are okay with overlooking the fact that Darcy is the one who put us in that position to begin with.

The next 2 years are going to either set us up great or set us back 5 years. I don't trust that Darcy is the guy to set us up for the long haul they are here for.

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04-04-2013, 11:06 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by S319R11S16 View Post
I understand that but he gave him credit for picking Miller, Vanek, and Pominville in the draft.

If Darcy is going to get credit for the good selections prior to Pegula then he should get roasted for the bad ones too.

I know what they are saying to the public, but it kills me to even think that they are okay with overlooking the fact that Darcy is the one who put us in that position to begin with.

The next 2 years are going to either set us up great or set us back 5 years. I don't trust that Darcy is the guy to set us up for the long haul they are here for.
Based on what?

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04-04-2013, 11:13 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Based on what?
not sure if he said it today but I've heard him say it in the past.

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04-04-2013, 11:14 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S319R11S16 View Post
-He said they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects when he got there and that's why they are where they are now. Well if that's the case, then why is Darcy still here? Its his fault they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects.
They were drafting high for awhile and moving picks for rentals. Those players would have been ready in the last year or two.

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04-04-2013, 11:15 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Driftwood View Post
I still have faith, I will reserve judgment until after the season. They are too smart to do something idiotic like keeping Regier.
Not sure why they wouldn't fire him now if they were going to...

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04-04-2013, 11:20 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S319R11S16 View Post
-He said they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects when he got there and that's why they are where they are now. Well if that's the case, then why is Darcy still here? Its his fault they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects.
It is and it isn't.

BTG's directive was to break even financially, which means making the playoffs every year. Which means that Darcy was usually in buying mode every year, selling off picks. The result of being in or around the playoffs every year means that the pipeline suffers.

It's not often that you find elite-level players outside of the top 5 and even rarer once you get outside the top 10....in a good draft you can maybe find 2 very-good-to-elite level prospects outside the top 10. Some years there are none.

So, the prospect pool was depleted by not hitting on the one or two out-of-the-top-10 prospects. Not sure I can entirely blame Darcy for that.

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04-04-2013, 11:26 AM
  #35
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BREAKING NEWS: After last year's trade deadline, last year's draft, and this year's trade deadline, Regier is not getting fired any time soon.

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04-04-2013, 11:27 AM
  #36
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I think the coaching position will now come down to Roy, Eakins, and Rolston with an outside shot

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04-04-2013, 11:27 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjci View Post
I think the coaching position will now come down to Roy, Eakins, and Rolston with an outside shot
That's where I'm at too.

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04-04-2013, 11:28 AM
  #38
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Current Roster = A team built to eek into the playoffs each year and make some money. Picks traded for rentals. Handcuffs.

Going Forward = Stockpiling picks, taking risks and maximizing perceived returns for a proper rebuild.

Not sure how you can roast Regier for building a mediocre to low-end team in the past with stingy ownership. I'm not going to say Regier is great since we haven't really seen him yet, the last few years have been attempts to make this broken, profit-based team work... since it didn't, its time for Plan B.

This is a rebuild folks. Its going to get a lot worse before it gets better.


Last edited by Dreakon: 04-04-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old
04-04-2013, 11:33 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S319R11S16 View Post
-He said they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects when he got there and that's why they are where they are now.

Well if that's the case, then why is Darcy still here? Its his fault they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects.
If you want to defend Darcy on that front, you could say that previous ownership forced Regier to draft largely North American prospects for a long time and that created a glass ceiling on how good the pipeline could be.

Also, the view could be that Regier wasn't given the financial resources to scout as much as they have now and that affected the quality of the prospect pipeline, as well.

I don't agree 100% with that assessment. But, if you are making excuses for Regier for his results under prior ownership, they are there for the taking.

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04-04-2013, 11:34 AM
  #40
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Refreshing to hear Black echoing my thoughts, particularly on drafting.

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04-04-2013, 11:51 AM
  #41
enrothorne
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So with management and ownership admitting publicly that the team is in rebuild mode will people give up on pushing for the playoffs already? Tank like you've never tanked before!

Rooting for the Sabres to fall to the bottom now is really rooting for them to rise up higher in subsequent years. Even management thinks so.

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04-04-2013, 12:06 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
It is and it isn't.

BTG's directive was to break even financially, which means making the playoffs every year. Which means that Darcy was usually in buying mode every year, selling off picks. The result of being in or around the playoffs every year means that the pipeline suffers.

It's not often that you find elite-level players outside of the top 5 and even rarer once you get outside the top 10....in a good draft you can maybe find 2 very-good-to-elite level prospects outside the top 10. Some years there are none.

So, the prospect pool was depleted by not hitting on the one or two out-of-the-top-10 prospects. Not sure I can entirely blame Darcy for that.
That's misguided.

Before Pegula took over -

They didn't stockpile picks; but there isn't a bad net loss on picks. If the guy had just hit on a few picks from 2005-2007 we wouldn't have needed to dump picks for players.

2010 -
1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7 (Minus a 2nd rounder but added 2 3rds)
2009 -
1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (Minus a 2nd rounder)
2008 -
1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6 (Plus a 1st rounder)
2007 -
2, 2, 3, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7 (Minus a late 1st but added a pick 5 spots later)

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Old
04-04-2013, 12:06 PM
  #43
Jagemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S319R11S16 View Post
-He said they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects when he got there and that's why they are where they are now. Well if that's the case, then why is Darcy still here? Its his fault they didn't have a solid pipeline of prospects.
With the current business being what it is with cap space and all that, building a succesful team is like breathing. You breath in and load up with prospects and young core players. At that brief moment before you exhale and ship out those young guys that are now older and may or may not have been succesfull, that is the time you aim for the cup.

I think with that analogy we are in exhale situation with shipping out the core that the management thought could do it. They didn't and while trying to push for that playoff revenue with throwing picks around (and not trading the players not part of the "Core"), we destroyed the only chance to keep the ball rolling. The core wasn't good enough after Briere/Drury and thats that. Ofcourse no one would have traded Briere/Drury at the trade deadline before they walked out but the other players complimenting them, those would have brought some pretty decent draft picks to stock up for the future.

Don't bring up Penguins into the analogue, they had Crosby to build the team around and very good high picks on top of that. Eventually they will need to exhale too but it might take some time. Teams like the Bruins are in their peak, they need to win now.

I know the text above is messy and hard to keep up with but read it with a thought

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04-04-2013, 12:14 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jagemon View Post
With the current business being what it is with cap space and all that, building a succesful team is like breathing. You breath in and load up with prospects and young core players. At that brief moment before you exhale and ship out those young guys that are now older and may or may not have been succesfull, that is the time you aim for the cup.

I think with that analogy we are in exhale situation with shipping out the core that the management thought could do it. They didn't and while trying to push for that playoff revenue with throwing picks around (and not trading the players not part of the "Core"), we destroyed the only chance to keep the ball rolling. The core wasn't good enough after Briere/Drury and thats that. Ofcourse no one would have traded Briere/Drury at the trade deadline before they walked out but the other players complimenting them, those would have brought some pretty decent draft picks to stock up for the future.

Don't bring up Penguins into the analogue, they had Crosby to build the team around and very good high picks on top of that. Eventually they will need to exhale too but it might take some time. Teams like the Bruins are in their peak, they need to win now.

I know the text above is messy and hard to keep up with but read it with a thought
If I was reading this while I'm on the can, I might alter the above analogy from breathing to ingestion and argue that BUF loaded up on a quart of bacon-laced baked beans, some jalapeno poppers, 2 dozen hot wings, and a 12-pack of Milwaukee's Best Ice. All great individual flavors, but the combo doesn't mix well, and they need to fart it all out and start over.

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04-04-2013, 12:19 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Coaches are different from GM's. GM's always last longer.
When both coach and GM were here for over 15 years, all bets are of in that regard.

Trusting Darcy with a rebuild is nuts.

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04-04-2013, 12:23 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Current Roster = A team built to eek into the playoffs each year and make some money. Picks traded for rentals. Handcuffs.

Going Forward = Stockpiling picks, taking risks and maximizing perceived returns for a proper rebuild.

Not sure how you can roast Regier for building a mediocre to low-end team in the past with stingy ownership. I'm not going to say Regier is great since we haven't really seen him yet, the last few years have been attempts to make this broken, profit-based team work... since it didn't, its time for Plan B.

This is a rebuild folks. Its going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Elevating and paying MORE to the wimpy Rochester core AND insisting that Ruff would be his guy for as long as he's there, told me he has poor instincts as a GM.

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04-04-2013, 12:24 PM
  #47
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Smart, smart, smart

I think Pegula, Black, and Regier made rational decisions over the past few years. They had a team that wasn't far off from the 2007 President's Cup team, and still retained a great deal of talent from that team. With some additions (Boyes, Leino, Ehrhoff) and player development (Connolly and Roy turning into true 1Cs, etc), it's not hard to think the team just needed a little bit more to make a Cup run, particularly after the 2009-2010 team won the Northeast Division. So the "win the Cup in three years" comment was made.

That didn't happen, mostly because talent didn't develop to expected levels, and the team chemistry was off. As you continue to observe that, you gradually come to the conclusion that the situation changed, and that leads to new conclusions, and eventually, a new course of action. This is exactly what the Sabres' leadership is doing.

Many organizations never come off their initial conclusions, despite the changed situation. Those organization die on the vine. In sports, the leadership of those organizations get fired. Sabres' leadership coming off their initial plan and changing to the new reality is a huge sign that the basis of the organization - the ownership and front office - is solid enough to win a Cup.

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04-04-2013, 12:26 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S319R11S16 View Post
That's misguided.

Before Pegula took over -

They didn't stockpile picks; but there isn't a bad net loss on picks. If the guy had just hit on a few picks from 2005-2007 we wouldn't have needed to dump picks for players.

2010 -
1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7 (Minus a 2nd rounder but added 2 3rds)
2009 -
1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (Minus a 2nd rounder)
2008 -
1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6 (Plus a 1st rounder)
2007 -
2, 2, 3, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7 (Minus a late 1st but added a pick 5 spots later)
The net loss was more in keeping guys like Satan, Zhitnik, Spacek when clearly in a position to sell to grow going forward.

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04-04-2013, 12:31 PM
  #49
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The "pipeline" stuff was referring to how we never rebuilt after the 05,06,07 years.... Instead of "harvesting value" from guys like Drury, Briere, and Dumont they all left for nothing.

Combo that with a string of misses in the draft and that's what you get.

Regier has made some mistakes... I wanted him gone for years. But it seems he is doing what I want an that's sell and rebuild. He hasn't been in position to do that for over 10 years.

I'll give him a chance.

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04-04-2013, 12:35 PM
  #50
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Didn't hear about Leopold's comments before, but I don't know why anyone would be surprised or upset by them.

Of course losing sucks, and of course it's no fun to be in a locker room when your team is losing. That's not supposed to be fun. I'm not surprised it was like a morgue in there.

I'm glad they're somber and depressed by losing. I'd be far more concerned if they came into the locker room after their nth loss in a row and were laughing and joking and having a grand old time. That would suggest to me that they didn't care, that losing didn't bother them, and that they were only there to collect a paycheck.

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