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Vancouver offered Luongo for Scrivens + two 2nd rounders.

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Old
04-04-2013, 12:11 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by nonriotingcanucksfan View Post
Did you see how upset Luongo looked at the press conference? Pretty sure that's the furthest away from happy that is possible.

I honestly think the only way we can get over this is if we trade Schneider after this season. Its pretty obvious Luongo is not going anywhere with that contract unless Gillis lowers his asking price significantly. At this point I would be happy with a B prospect and a 1st just to end the nonsense.
Maybe Luongo and a 1st for a B prospect.

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04-04-2013, 12:13 PM
  #302
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It's pretty clear to me that Nonis never had interest in Luongo and was negotiating in bad faith. Don't begrudge him for it either, all's fair in love and war, but he was clearly stringing Gillis along. It's a shame Dreger felt the need release all the sordid details though, seemed rather mean-spirited when it comes to the player (Luongo) involved. Gillis was obviously trying to do Luongo a favour and Dreger essentially mocked the Canucks for it and dragged Luongo through the mud in the process. I'm sure Nonis loved it though, must be nice having a family member that you can use in the media.

Anyway, that's totally Nonis' prerogative, nothing illegal about what he did. Besides, Canucks will find a better deal in the summer, I'm sure of it. It may not be much better but Gillis won't be as under the gun to move him.

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04-04-2013, 12:15 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
Why do people think the Canucks would actually have to buy out Luongo? Supposing Luongo wouldn't get picked up on waivers (he would), then Luongo could just refuse to report to the AHL and the Canucks could void the contract. Then Luongo gets out of the contract, exactly as he said he would love to.

The big thing with people saying "wait until the Canucks buy him out then sign him" is that it won't be that easy. If that happens, he probably goes to a Florida team (and probably has a cap hit much higher the 5.33). For any other team, trading is the only way to dependably get him.
so why haven't they done that yet. this nonsense has been going on for a while. no one wants to deal with Luongo's contract all while giving up the valuable assets Gillis is seeking in return for him.

if they waive him and someone actually picks him up, the Canucks get nothing for him except cap relief and a good riddance of a terrible contract.

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04-04-2013, 12:15 PM
  #304
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Clearly Nonis does not need Luongo as much as Gillis wants to move him and he is taking advantage of the fact.

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04-04-2013, 12:16 PM
  #305
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I think Nonis should of offered to keep some of the Luongo cap hit.....offers might be better if he was offered around the league as a 4 mill cap hit goalie???

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04-04-2013, 12:17 PM
  #306
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I don't think Nonis was bargaining under bad faith. I would imagine he probably told Gillis that he will have to retain salary if he is to expect any assets in return.

Since this is unworkable for Vancouver, there's no foundation for a deal.

I think it comes down to those retirement years. If Vancouver wants to trade Luongo, they will probably have to assume the entire cap recapture period penalties. Otherwise I am thinking buyout.

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04-04-2013, 12:21 PM
  #307
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I think his value will be even lower this summer when the reality of the cap sets in and RFAs are signed by all the teams and they see how little room they have left.

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04-04-2013, 12:21 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
It's pretty clear to me that Nonis never had interest in Luongo and was negotiating in bad faith. Don't begrudge him for it either, all's fair in love and war, but he was clearly stringing Gillis along. It's a shame Dreger felt the need release all the sordid details though, seemed rather mean-spirited when it comes to the player (Luongo) involved. Gillis was obviously trying to do Luongo a favour and Dreger essentially mocked the Canucks for it and dragged Luongo through the mud in the process. I'm sure Nonis loved it though, must be nice having a family member that you can use in the media.

Anyway, that's totally Nonis' prerogative, nothing illegal about what he did. Besides, Canucks will find a better deal in the summer, I'm sure of it. It may not be much better but Gillis won't be as under the gun to move him.
Why do you think he negotiated in bad faith? Leafs were tied to Luongo ever since Schneider started a game against LA in the playoffs.

I wouldn't say it's bad faith. Nonis could easily revisit the trade again. I just think it's not fair to acquire Luongo when Reimer has been just as good if not better than Luongo.

For the better part of the last decade the Leafs had zero goaltending support...and was the reason we came short every year.

Now we have a goalie that is putting up good numbers and the players in front of him have confidence in him to stop the puck. It is just not fair to Reimer to acquire Luongo at the trade deadline.

Reimer doesn't have playoff experience...but before last year, Schneider never started a playoff game either. Only way to get playoff experience is to go out and let your young goalie play.

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04-04-2013, 12:23 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
How will it be a fast one? If Nonis wanted him, he could have had him.
Cause I think Nonis is playing hardball and wants Luongo for like a 4th round pick and some no name prospect. I think he's trying to push Gillis in a corner and someone else (like Philly) will "steal" him away from Toronto.

For a team that is looking to desperatly add a solid netminder, you can't tell me that two 2nd round picks and a young back-up is asking alot when talking about a proven netminder who's in his prime and would put his team in a very solid spot to make the playoffs year after year.

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04-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #310
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That was my thought as well
Also that dreger revealed his true colours shilling this leafs swill, though it remains to be seen what impact it'll have on Luo's value in the summer. But with the amount of glee it seems to have caused hereabouts perhaps the intended result was acheived regardless..
Ah yes. Because it would be brilliant for him to slander his own bosses who co own a majority stake in MLSE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Cause I think Nonis is playing hardball and wants Luongo for like a 4th round pick and some no name prospect. I think he's trying to push Gillis in a corner and someone else (like Philly) will "steal" him away from Toronto.

For a team that is looking to desperatly add a solid netminder, you can't tell me that two 2nd round picks and a young back-up is asking alot when talking about a proven netminder who's in his prime and would put his team in a very solid spot to make the playoffs year after year.

It makes ZERO sense for Toronto to take on that contract. We have a guy we like in Reimer who is preforming currently and to bring in Lou for that cost only to have Reimer take his place 2 years later is just not good cap management. Kipper was interesting for the fact his contract only lasted 2 years unlike Lou's 8 to 10. Philly can take him really but first Lou would have to approve it.

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04-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
I think Toronto should've pulled the trigger on that offer... two 2nd's and a young backup netminder for Luongo? That's peanuts right there for a team that is printing money like there's no tomorrow, when talking about Luongo's contract.

I have a feeling Holmgren will pull a fast one this summer on the Leafs and will land Luongo, after buying out Bryzgalov and Nonis will regret not moving two meaningless picks for a proven netminder.
It's not about the dollars. MLSE would be willing to pay the entire sum of Lou's contract, as absurd as it is. It's the salary cap hit and pending penalty for TEN YEARS.

If this was happening in the non salary cap era, Lou would have been traded to the Leafs or another potential suitor a long time ago.

Why is that so difficult to understand?


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04-04-2013, 12:26 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Cause I think Nonis is playing hardball and wants Luongo for like a 4th round pick and some no name prospect. I think he's trying to push Gillis in a corner and someone else (like Philly) will "steal" him away from Toronto.

For a team that is looking to desperatly add a solid netminder, you can't tell me that two 2nd round picks and a young back-up is asking alot when talking about a proven netminder who's in his prime and would put his team in a very solid spot to make the playoffs year after year.
I hope Philly does steal him. It would be great seeing them replace one horrible contract with another.

Gillis is already in a corner.

Luongo is a great goalie. It's the term that is killer and the fact that he's a goalie.

If Duncan Keith were on the market right now, people will overpay for him despite his contract.

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04-04-2013, 12:29 PM
  #313
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In the end, Luongo deal falls through because Toronto wanted Vancouver to keep some of his salary. VAN refused to do so.
Quote:
Leafs would have parted with the 2nd and 3rd picks, plus Scrivens. But when VAN wouldn't share some salary, Nonis backed off of deal.
@SportsnetSpec

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04-04-2013, 12:30 PM
  #314
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Not surprised Nonis passed, Van will basically have to take a couple of mid picks in the off season to get rid of Luo's contract.

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04-04-2013, 12:31 PM
  #315
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Just to put this out there - I'm a Hawks fan, and HATE the Canucks.

I think the contract issue is overblown. After this year, Luongo's got:

5 years @ $6.7M - Age: 39
1 year @ $3.4M - Age: 40
1 year @ $1.7M - Age: 41
2 years @ $1M - Age: 43

If Luongo retires @ age 40, as I understand it, the teams that picks him up would basically have to eat a cap penalty around $7M over the next 4 years ($6.7M - $5.3M cap hit = $1.4M x 5 years = $7M). If Luongo played one the year $3.4M, the cap penalty would be down to $5M over 3 years. In either case - not a crippling penalty.

That being the case - is Luongo worth the $6.7M (using cash because with new penalty, the cash = the cap hit long term if the player retires) over the next 5 years? IMO, I think that number might be a little high, but not so much that he has NO value based on the contract. If Hossa or Kovalchuk was made available, I think there would be a ton of demand for those guys, even though they have similar contracts. Which brings me back to this is really a goaltending issue.

Goalies historically don't have a ton of value, and there is typically a pretty limited market. I think that the underlying issue is that Gillis doubled down thinking that someone would buckle. Well, no one did, and that might have a $25M mistake if the Canucks have to buy out Luongo.

Also, just for career advice for everyone else on the board, be careful about burning bridges. Gillis was counting on a guy who (from what is said in this thread) he publically ripped on in the past, and now he was counting on that person doing him a favor. Well, guess what, that fell through and Gillis is in a rough spot IMO.


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04-04-2013, 12:33 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Cause I think Nonis is playing hardball and wants Luongo for like a 4th round pick and some no name prospect. I think he's trying to push Gillis in a corner and someone else (like Philly) will "steal" him away from Toronto.

For a team that is looking to desperatly add a solid netminder, you can't tell me that two 2nd round picks and a young back-up is asking alot when talking about a proven netminder who's in his prime and would put his team in a very solid spot to make the playoffs year after year.
That's not the case here at all.

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04-04-2013, 12:34 PM
  #317
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Why do you think he negotiated in bad faith? Leafs were tied to Luongo ever since Schneider started a game against LA in the playoffs.

I wouldn't say it's bad faith. Nonis could easily revisit the trade again. I just think it's not fair to acquire Luongo when Reimer has been just as good if not better than Luongo.

For the better part of the last decade the Leafs had zero goaltending support...and was the reason we came short every year.

Now we have a goalie that is putting up good numbers and the players in front of him have confidence in him to stop the puck. It is just not fair to Reimer to acquire Luongo at the trade deadline.

Reimer doesn't have playoff experience...but before last year, Schneider never started a playoff game either. Only way to get playoff experience is to go out and let your young goalie play.
I would say things changed dramatically once Burke was fired. I believe if Burke was still GM, the deal would've been done before the start of the season. Nonis made it pretty clear he wasn't interesting in Luongo from day one and I for one believe him. The fact that Nonis gave Dreger all the details of the deadline offers is another hint that Nonis has no interest. If you really want a player do you do that? I don't think so. Nonis ruined future negotiating with that move and I don't think he cares.

The good news is that I believe this will end any and all Luongo to the Leafs speculation. It's pretty clear that Nonis is happy with his current duo and I doubt Gillis goes back to that well after the spectacle that was created and the public humiliation that Luongo had to go through.

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04-04-2013, 12:37 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
I would say things changed dramatically once Burke was fired. I believe if Burke was still GM, the deal would've been done before the start of the season. Nonis made it pretty clear he wasn't interesting in Luongo from day one and I for one believe him. The fact that Nonis gave Dreger all the details of the deadline offers is another hint that Nonis has no interest. If you really want a player do you do that? I don't think so. Nonis ruined future negotiating with that move and I don't think he cares.

The good news is that I believe this will end any and all Luongo to the Leafs speculation. It's pretty clear that Nonis is happy with his current duo and I doubt Gillis goes back to that well after the spectacle that was created and the public humiliation that Luongo had to go through.
This is not a fact.

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04-04-2013, 12:37 PM
  #319
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@SportsnetSpec
Well there you go, so it isn't Nonis "playing hard ball" or trying to get luongo for a 4th.

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04-04-2013, 12:37 PM
  #320
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I don't know why fans feel that Toronto is obligated to make a trade for Lu. Reimer and Scrivens have been winning a lot of games for us. Gillis made some offers and Nonis wasn't comfortable with them. It's not like he was trying to jerk him around

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04-04-2013, 12:38 PM
  #321
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Lol @ Vancouver fans crying because nonis didn't trade for luongo. Going as far as claiming nonis negotiated in bad faith. Hahahaha
Not crying at all. It's totally within Nonis' rights to do whatever he wants. He did nothing illegal and as I said earlier, all's fair in love and war. It's not an unreasonable conclusion to be believe Nonis was negotiating in bad faith when you look at all facts.

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04-04-2013, 12:41 PM
  #322
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This is not a fact.
Fine, it's reasonable conjecture. Dreger got his info from somewhere in the Leafs organization, it's a safe bet that it was his family member. Either way, the Leafs leaked it because they wanted to, either that or they run an extremely undisciplined and poorly controlled front office.

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04-04-2013, 12:41 PM
  #323
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Just to put this out there - I'm a Hawks fan, and HATE the Canucks.

I think the contract issue is overblown. After this year, Luongo's got:

5 years @ $6.7M - Age: 39
1 year @ $3.4M - Age: 40
1 year @ $1.7M - Age: 42
2 years @ $1M - Age: 43

If Luongo retires @ age 40, as I understand it, the teams that picks him up would basically have to eat a cap penalty around $7M over the next 4 years ($6.7M - $5.3M cap hit = $1.4M x 5 years = $7M). If Luongo played one the year $3.4M, the cap penalty would be down to $5M over 3 years. In either case - not a crippling penalty. That being the case - is Luongo worth the $6.7M (using cash because with new penalty, the cash = the cap hit long term if the player retires) over the next 5 years? IMO, I think that number might be a little high, but not so much that he has NO value based on the contract. If Hossa or Kovalchuk was made available, I think there would be a ton of demand for those guys, even though they have similar contracts. Which brings me back to this is really a goaltending issue.

Goalies historically don't have a ton of value, and there is typically a pretty limited market. I think that the underlying issue is that Gillis doubled down thinking that someone would buckle. Well, no one did, and that might have a $25M mistake if the Canucks have to buy out Luongo.

Also, just for career advice for everyone else on the board, be careful about burning bridges. Gillis was counting on a guy who (from what is said in this thread) he publically ripped on in the past, and now he was counting on that person doing him a favor. Well, guess what, that fell through and Gillis is in a rough spot IMO.
With all due respect, I disagree. I think those figures are potentially crippling to any team. To absorb a cap hit of 5-7 million dollars for a few years beyond Lou's retirement is absolutely detrimental to the salary structure of a NHL club that hopes to be competitive.

A team would basically have to be willing to concede the ability to be able to pay for one front line player or two solid complimentary players for a few years.

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04-04-2013, 12:41 PM
  #324
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@SportsnetSpec
Personally I hate Spector. So it could be a blind rage of hate when I say this but I am not 100% sure about it.

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04-04-2013, 12:42 PM
  #325
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All the GM's in the league must be laughing their *** off every time they see Gillis come up on their call display. The fact that he is asking for anything of value in return for Luongo is comical. I'll enjoy watching the Canucks slow demise over the next few years. Just like the Toronto situation, firing Gillis would go a long way to helping their cause.

That Bozak Kadri 1st rumor is frightening. Kessel trade 2.0 right there.
i'm in disbelief a team of professional's would offer up that type of package... it doesn't add up. I'm glad Nonnis is running the team now and not Burke...

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