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Marian Gaborik to Columbus for Brassard, J. Moore and Dorsett

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04-04-2013, 11:18 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Oh Thats Nashty View Post
With the 6-1 win and all new guys contributing it won't be that bad of a reaction. Everyone knows what Gaborik can bring. He just wasn't cutting it here anymore and moving his salary was in the Rangers best interest.

If Gaborik didn't have a $7.5 cap hit next season or the cap wasn't going down 6 million this deal probably doesn't get made. I don't understand why people can't see that this move was highly cap influenced.
And It's not about Gaborik scoring two goals tonight...it's about the half dozen games after that. It's obviously a lot more important to have a guy who scores a goal every other night as a fixture of your lineup than one who scores a hat trick and then becomes invisible for 5-10 games. Unfortunately Gaborik has become the latter. That said, I have no ill will towards the guy, and hopefully he can re-find his scoring touch in Columbus.

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04-04-2013, 11:19 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Pretty much figure that out cause he was traded to Columbus. I'm sure they tried to get more for him and trade him to a more desirable location, those options were not there.
The Rangers wouldn't care where they were trading him so long as the return was the best they could get. Gaborik's NTC comes into play, but obviously it wasn't that big of a factor overall.

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04-04-2013, 11:20 AM
  #178
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No matter what you think about this trade, the ensuing results are part of the reason I love this sport. You just dont know how its going to work out. You need to play the games to figure it out.

This trade may look horrible on paper from a production standpoint, but an exceedingly high compete level is a great equalizer in this game.

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04-04-2013, 11:21 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The Rangers wouldn't care where they were trading him so long as the return was the best they could get. Gaborik's NTC comes into play, but obviously it wasn't that big of a factor overall.
There is a respect between player and GM, most people don't understand this.

You're acting like this was some nobody that never helped the team. Sather is a dope, but he's a professional(most of the time) and knows how to handle trades, I give him that much.

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04-04-2013, 11:23 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
Hint: there's a little 'quote' button on the bottom right corner of every post. Saves the hassle of copying and pasting





I'm happy to give you things from my angle; I think it's only fair since these are three guys that no one outside of Columbus knows a whole lot about. Really can't stress enough how well I hope they do in NY. I was only 10 when the Jackets came to town, but my dad is from Islip and grew up a Rangers fan, so I remember when I was young that's the team I had a connection to. Strange how things work out Nash was a childhood hero for me, but adding three players that I'm fond of really makes me want to cheer for the Rags. Can't wait to be in the East next year.
Welcome to the madness that is the Rangersphere. Your going to need to dumb that derogatory term. We call them Rangers. Never the other.

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04-04-2013, 11:24 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
There is a respect between player and GM, most people don't understand this.

You're acting like this was some nobody that never helped the team. Sather is a dope, but he's a professional(most of the time) and knows how to handle trades, I give him that much.
Respect between player and GM goes both ways. Every player knows that his GMs job in a trade is to get the best possible return.

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04-04-2013, 11:27 AM
  #182
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It still makes no sense to me. I understand the Nash trade was made before the lockout, and I realize that most - if not all - hockey experts/analysts did not expect the drastic cap shrinking we saw coming out of the lockout, so that changed the cap structure considerably, but, ignoring what I think about Gaborik, I just fail to see the logic of wanting to basically take Columbus' "core", add it to Lundqvist, Callahan, and Stepan, and roll for the future.

Change is a part of sports, that's fine, but the players now "central" to our near and long-term success are not better than they were at 1 PM yesterday. I loved the trade for Clowe, and I still do.

The other thing is, I think most agree, even myself as a Gaborik fan, that this team is a flawed core, a bad fit, be it coach, skill sets, whatever. The problem there is, if the Clowe move is to "shake it up" the Gaborik move is to make it so we can keep it together, without even seeing how it all worked. If Clowe works and we need to re-sign him and extend Stepan, McDonagh, and Hagelin (though, it's arguable with out depth on the blue line, an offer sheet for McDongah might not have been the worst thing in the world to come our way, but that's a different discussion), then there are pieces to trade and/or amnesty. Richards, Girardi, Staal, Gaborik. Buyouts, LTIR, trades. All could create the space necessary to sign the RFAs.

Or, looking at it another way, would this trade still be on the table at the draft? If the answer is yes - and I think it is - then we did ourselves a disservice given our stated goal of winning a cup and the talent that, at least on paper, made that goal plausible.

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04-04-2013, 11:34 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
No matter what you think about this trade, the ensuing results are part of the reason I love this sport. You just dont know how its going to work out. You need to play the games to figure it out.

This trade may look horrible on paper from a production standpoint, but an exceedingly high compete level is a great equalizer in this game.
Honestly this trade is not even bad on paper. People just look at Gaborik going the other way and don't see a superstar coming back and automatically assume we got fleeced when in fact the reality of the situation was that Gaborik was underperforming, the Rangers needed to adjust to both an upcoming lowered cap and RFAs due for raises, and needed to address serious depth issues.

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04-04-2013, 11:35 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by tjs252 View Post
Or, looking at it another way, would this trade still be on the table at the draft? If the answer is yes - and I think it is - then we did ourselves a disservice given our stated goal of winning a cup and the talent that, at least on paper, made that goal plausible.
Personally, I think we're better equipped today to win the Cup than we were two days ago. With the style of play Tortorella wants our guys to play, our forward corps needed to be more in the mold of the Bruins (depth throughout) and less in the mold of the Penguins (top heavy).

Remember, we still have one of the best defensive groups in the league, particularly when Staal comes back, and we still have the best goaltender in the league. These are the strengths of the team. A deep forward group complements them much better than a top heavy one.

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04-04-2013, 11:41 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Respect between player and GM goes both ways. Every player knows that his GMs job in a trade is to get the best possible return.
If a more desirable team/location for Gaborik realistically existed outside the conference and offered up a similar deal, IMO Sather would have given him the choice.

I always thought Nashville was an option - Legwand, Erat, Ellis. But Poile went back to his old ways and sold at deadline for youth. That guy is a case of someone who holds his wallet too close to his chest.

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04-04-2013, 11:44 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Personally, I think we're better equipped today to win the Cup than we were two days ago.
You really think that's some big revelation?

I think we all know what the team looked like a few days ago. Hot garbage.

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04-04-2013, 11:46 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
You really think that's some big revelation?

I think we all know what the team looked like a few days ago. Hot garbage.
I'm not talking about how we looked on the ice before or after the trades. I'm talking about roster makeup, thus the word "equipped."

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04-04-2013, 11:47 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Personally, I think we're better equipped today to win the Cup than we were two days ago. With the style of play Tortorella wants our guys to play, our forward corps needed to be more in the mold of the Bruins (depth throughout) and less in the mold of the Penguins (top heavy).

Remember, we still have one of the best defensive groups in the league, particularly when Staal comes back, and we still have the best goaltender in the league. These are the strengths of the team. A deep forward group complements them much better than a top heavy one.
I agree and disagree.

I think we're better equipped to play Tortorella's system now. I don't think Tortorella's system can win a cup in the new NHL. The rule changes have opened up the middle of the ice so much more now, you don't win games in the corners.

Look at last year. Round 1 - 7 games; Round 2 - 7 games; Round 3 - 6 games (loss). That's not a ringing endorsement of having a winning, working system. And I think, last year, all things considered with the years we got from Richards and Gaborik and Lundqvist, was the best Tortorella's system will ever look in the new NHL.

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04-04-2013, 11:54 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by tjs252 View Post
I agree and disagree.

I think we're better equipped to play Tortorella's system now. I don't think Tortorella's system can win a cup in the new NHL. The rule changes have opened up the middle of the ice so much more now, you don't win games in the corners.

Look at last year. Round 1 - 7 games; Round 2 - 7 games; Round 3 - 6 games (loss). That's not a ringing endorsement of having a winning, working system. And I think, last year, all things considered with the years we got from Richards and Gaborik and Lundqvist, was the best Tortorella's system will ever look in the new NHL.
Well, I wasn't passing judgment in either direction on Tortorella's system. I don't necessarily agree with you, either. But that's not a discussion for this thread.

Tortorella is our coach and our roster fits his style better than it did. We weren't going to have much success having a roster that doesn't fit his style.

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04-04-2013, 12:00 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Personally, I think we're better equipped today to win the Cup than we were two days ago. With the style of play Tortorella wants our guys to play, our forward corps needed to be more in the mold of the Bruins (depth throughout) and less in the mold of the Penguins (top heavy).

Remember, we still have one of the best defensive groups in the league, particularly when Staal comes back, and we still have the best goaltender in the league. These are the strengths of the team. A deep forward group complements them much better than a top heavy one.
I agree totally. The way we're constructed now reminds me of the way the Bruins and Kings teams were. We're much deeper and have four solid lines. Even without Gabby, we have two major stars in Nash and Richards, and if Kreider comes up and performs for the playoffs we'll be very dangerous. To be honest, the Senators and Maple Leafs can still drop I think. So, we definitely have a shot IMO to get the fifth or sixth seed. I think we'll, at the very least, be the 7th seed. Gonna be a fun end to the year

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04-04-2013, 12:04 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by tjs252 View Post
I agree and disagree.

I think we're better equipped to play Tortorella's system now. I don't think Tortorella's system can win a cup in the new NHL. The rule changes have opened up the middle of the ice so much more now, you don't win games in the corners.

Look at last year. Round 1 - 7 games; Round 2 - 7 games; Round 3 - 6 games (loss). That's not a ringing endorsement of having a winning, working system. And I think, last year, all things considered with the years we got from Richards and Gaborik and Lundqvist, was the best Tortorella's system will ever look in the new NHL.
I agree with this for the most part. The Rangers luck in one goal games and the fact that they had to absolutely grind their way to Game 6 of the ECF really have me wanting to force that "over-achievers" label into them. These moves alone won't put them over the top, they need to tweak some system things.

That said, even if Tortarella got fired, I still wanted to see Gaborik moved. I am not convinced that his injury was the root cause of his relative ineffectiveness in the playoffs last season. His game, i.e., ninja-stealth, simply does not work against tough defenses that are playing at high energy/effort levels. I am convinced of this, and I'll really be surprised if he proves capable of carrying a team when the going gets tough. This, in addition to the cap implications, made moving him an absolute must to me.

We can debate the return til the cows come home, but that's besides the point in my opinion.

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04-04-2013, 12:06 PM
  #192
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This:
Cally-Step-Nash
Clowe-Richards-Zucc
Boyle-Brassard-Hags
Pyatt-Powe-Asham

looks a lot better than:

Cally-Step-Nash
Zucc-Richards-Gabby
Hags-Miller-Kreider
Pyatt-Boyle-Asham/Powe

The bottom six are AMAZINGLY improved Imo. We'r e alot deeper. I've always liked Boyle better as a winger than a center. And While I love Kreider and Miller, I think that they need some more time in the AHL, cause there's parts of their games that aren't ready. I fully expect them to become regulars next season. But right now, we don't have time to let these guys grow. The depth and toughness is whats going to bring us to the SCF, not finesse and poor fitting pieces.

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04-04-2013, 12:11 PM
  #193
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...really makes me want to cheer for the Rags. Can't wait to be in the East next year.
Probably want to drop that slang. It's not thought of foundly (unless something has changed) by Rangers fans. I'm sure it would be fine on the CBJ board (i've used it as an Isles fan but try not to any more) but I wouldn't bring it in here. It may be construed as disrespectful and we all know only Canada disrespects the CBJ Let's not add another group.

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04-04-2013, 12:31 PM
  #194
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Perhaps this was the plan all along

They make the Nash trade, it leaves them with 3 top six right wings. They know they have to trade one of them. It's not going to be Nash, nor their Captain, how about Gaborik? Torts was never in love with Gaborik's game, so he is the natural choice to be moved.

However there is that pesky no trade clause. How do they get Gaborik to waive it? How about they play him on his off wing, move him up and down the lines. Then maybe trade for a natural LW who threatens Gaborik new LW spot in the top 6?

Where is Gaborik going to fit in after the Clowe trade? He is not getting his RW spot back in the top 6. With Hagelin and now Clowe, he may be bumped down to 3rd line LW.

Seems like that may be enough to have Gaborik waive his clause.

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04-04-2013, 12:55 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Perhaps this was the plan all along

They make the Nash trade, it leaves them with 3 top six right wings. They know they have to trade one of them. It's not going to be Nash, nor their Captain, how about Gaborik? Torts was never in love with Gaborik's game, so he is the natural choice to be moved.

However there is that pesky no trade clause. How do they get Gaborik to waive it? How about they play him on his off wing, move him up and down the lines. Then maybe trade for a natural LW who threatens Gaborik new LW spot in the top 6?

Where is Gaborik going to fit in after the Clowe trade? He is not getting his RW spot back in the top 6. With Hagelin and now Clowe, he may be bumped down to 3rd line LW.

Seems like that may be enough to have Gaborik waive his clause.
Yeah, that's silly. Chief among it, the fact that Clowe's first (and only practice) with Gaborik had him on the left of Richards with Gabby on the right.

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04-04-2013, 01:00 PM
  #196
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I agree with this for the most part. The Rangers luck in one goal games and the fact that they had to absolutely grind their way to Game 6 of the ECF really have me wanting to force that "over-achievers" label into them. These moves alone won't put them over the top, they need to tweak some system things.

That said, even if Tortarella got fired, I still wanted to see Gaborik moved. I am not convinced that his injury was the root cause of his relative ineffectiveness in the playoffs last season. His game, i.e., ninja-stealth, simply does not work against tough defenses that are playing at high energy/effort levels. I am convinced of this, and I'll really be surprised if he proves capable of carrying a team when the going gets tough. This, in addition to the cap implications, made moving him an absolute must to me.

We can debate the return til the cows come home, but that's besides the point in my opinion.
You absolutely need charging power-forwards to score consistently in the playoffs, I don't disagree with that premise at all, but the sniping speed wingers play a very important role in the playoffs. Look at the post lockout Cup winners, the only cup champion I can think of that didn't have at least one of those snipers was Boston in 2011, but I think most would agree that was an aberration. No playoff power-play goals, and Tim Thomas basically turning into a wall.

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04-04-2013, 01:02 PM
  #197
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I think people are looking at this wrong. Clowe and Zucc were brought in to replace Gaborik and Brassard, Moore and Dorsett were brought in to replace the guys we lost in the offseason like Prust, Anisimov, Dubinksy, etc. I dont think anyone expects those guys to produce Gaborik like numbers but if we added more depth and hopefully between Clowe and Zucc we can get some more offense than they were getting from Gaborik this year.

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04-04-2013, 01:03 PM
  #198
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Cant wait until Gaborik scores 2 tonight in Nashville and half the board loses it.

lol
I think that would be really silly. Gabby's a good guy. He just had a very sub par compete level and mind set this season....for a lot of different reasons. I hope he does well. I'd love to see him help Cbus make the playoffs.

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04-04-2013, 01:37 PM
  #199
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Yeah, that's silly. Chief among it, the fact that Clowe's first (and only practice) with Gaborik had him on the left of Richards with Gabby on the right.
I must have missed that report? I see some that say Clowe might start on a line with Richards and Gaborik?

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04-04-2013, 01:54 PM
  #200
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Probably want to drop that slang. It's not thought of foundly (unless something has changed) by Rangers fans. I'm sure it would be fine on the CBJ board (i've used it as an Isles fan but try not to any more) but I wouldn't bring it in here. It may be construed as disrespectful and we all know only Canada disrespects the CBJ Let's not add another group.
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Welcome to the madness that is the Rangersphere. Your going to need to dumb that derogatory term. We call them Rangers. Never the other.
Noted. Didn't know it was derogatory, thought it was abbreviation.

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