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Marian Gaborik to Columbus for Brassard, J. Moore and Dorsett

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04-04-2013, 02:12 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Perhaps this was the plan all along

They make the Nash trade, it leaves them with 3 top six right wings. They know they have to trade one of them. It's not going to be Nash, nor their Captain, how about Gaborik? Torts was never in love with Gaborik's game, so he is the natural choice to be moved.

However there is that pesky no trade clause. How do they get Gaborik to waive it? How about they play him on his off wing, move him up and down the lines. Then maybe trade for a natural LW who threatens Gaborik new LW spot in the top 6?

Where is Gaborik going to fit in after the Clowe trade? He is not getting his RW spot back in the top 6. With Hagelin and now Clowe, he may be bumped down to 3rd line LW.

Seems like that may be enough to have Gaborik waive his clause.
I think the plan all along was to have Richards, Nash and Gabby playing as well as they were expected to play and carrying a team with subpar depth deep into the playoffs. That obviously failed and the plan had to change. I like Gabby here a lot, but his play led to this trade in a large part. Yeah, someone had to go for cap reasons but I truly believe that Sather would have found a way to keep Gabby at the expense of some other guys if he and Nash and Richards worked as well on ice as they seemed to on paper. Aside from Torts and captaincy and all that, just based on play this season, do you move Nash, Cally or Gaborik? No question IMO.

I highly doubt that the plan was to trade Gabby to CBJ for this exact return for the entire season. Again, I think management wanted nothing more than he and Richards and Nash to work out they way a lot of us were expecting. I think they saw it wasn't working out, they saw that he was unhappy with the way the coach was treating him (which, IMO was perfectly fair but that's for another thread) and they talked to a team that was willing to give them pieces that filled almost every glaring need that they had, so they pulled the trigger. If anything, I think "the plan" before the last few days was to hold on to Gabby, see if the team could put it together last minute, and then trade him for a 1st and a solid prospect at the draft.

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04-04-2013, 02:21 PM
  #202
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If gabby isn't scoring goals then the opponent is on a power play when gabbys on the ice. I think he's one of the most overpaid players in the league.

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04-04-2013, 02:31 PM
  #203
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I think the plan all along was to have Richards, Nash and Gabby playing as well as they were expected to play and carrying a team with subpar depth deep into the playoffs. That obviously failed and the plan had to change. I like Gabby here a lot, but his play led to this trade in a large part. Yeah, someone had to go for cap reasons but I truly believe that Sather would have found a way to keep Gabby at the expense of some other guys if he and Nash and Richards worked as well on ice as they seemed to on paper. Aside from Torts and captaincy and all that, just based on play this season, do you move Nash, Cally or Gaborik? No question IMO.

I highly doubt that the plan was to trade Gabby to CBJ for this exact return for the entire season. Again, I think management wanted nothing more than he and Richards and Nash to work out they way a lot of us were expecting. I think they saw it wasn't working out, they saw that he was unhappy with the way the coach was treating him (which, IMO was perfectly fair but that's for another thread) and they talked to a team that was willing to give them pieces that filled almost every glaring need that they had, so they pulled the trigger. If anything, I think "the plan" before the last few days was to hold on to Gabby, see if the team could put it together last minute, and then trade him for a 1st and a solid prospect at the draft.
I do not think they knew who they were going to trade him for but I think it plausible they realized they wanted to trade Gaborik at this deadline at some point a while ago and hatched a plan to make it work.

It just seems odd that they moved Gaborik to LW when Nash had played LW before long ago in Columbus. They never had either Callahan or Nash below Gaborik when all three were playing RW this year. Gaborik got Boyle as his center when he was moved back to RW. I'm pretty sure all of a sudden last night I saw Nash as a LW although I can not say for sure, I was too happy just to see the Rangers playing a game resembling hockey.

It's just a conspiracy theory, not trying to say that is totally what happened and this whole thing did not just work itself out the way it did for whatever reason. It just appears that Gaborik was really never given the chance to be the top line RW once Nash arrived, a role he had pretty much held for the 3 years prior.

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04-04-2013, 02:32 PM
  #204
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Erat requested a trade. Pierre LeBrun wrote the Caps soured on Forsberg.

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And yes, perhaps GM George McPhee could have gotten more had he waited until the summer to shop Forsberg fully to the league. You see, I believe the Caps were going to trade Forsberg at some point no matter what, internally souring on the prospect, a player they no longer viewed as a top center in the making.

Scouts Iíve spoken with have mixed opinions. Some still view him as a top center in the making, at least a No. 2, but others are concerned by his foot speed. The latter is what concerned Washington.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...for-preds-caps

Calgary got back a conditional #1 pick for Bouwmeester. Everyone expected much more. Detroit wasn't interested in anyone else besides Bouwmeester. They didn't offer a #1 for Bouwmeester.

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In return, the Flames got a first-round pick and two prospects -- defenseman Mark Cundari and goaltender Reto Berra.

If St. Louis does not qualify for this year's playoffs, the Flames will receive St. Louis' fourth-round selection in this summer's draft, with the first-round pick being deferred to 2014.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/91...calgary-flames

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04-04-2013, 02:33 PM
  #205
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@ Off Sides: Nash was on LW on Monday too.

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04-04-2013, 03:02 PM
  #206
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@ Off Sides: Nash was on LW on Monday too.
They were preparing

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04-04-2013, 03:07 PM
  #207
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Weird.

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04-04-2013, 03:08 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Weird.
I seems pretty normal to be.

When I first heard that Gaborik was traded to Columbus, my initial reaction was "Back to Columbus?"

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04-04-2013, 03:08 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Erat requested a trade. Pierre LeBrun wrote the Caps soured on Forsberg.



http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...for-preds-caps

Calgary got back a conditional #1 pick for Bouwmeester. Everyone expected much more. Detroit wasn't interested in anyone else besides Bouwmeester. They didn't offer a #1 for Bouwmeester.



http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/91...calgary-flames
I was never a Forsberg fan. I still like Collberg better.

I guess the Rangers got an OK return, depending on if Brassard still has untapped potential, which I don't quite see.

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04-04-2013, 03:14 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I was never a Forsberg fan. I still like Collberg better.

I guess the Rangers got an OK return, depending on if Brassard still has untapped potential, which I don't quite see.
What is untapped potential? Him increasing his production to 50-55 points/season? That slots him in as a solid #2 center easily. He has had a couple 40-45 point seasons plus his 25 points in 31 games in 08-09.

Right now he is at 22 in 35. Extrapolates to 51.5 points for 82 games.

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04-04-2013, 03:28 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What is untapped potential? Him increasing his production to 50-55 points/season? That slots him in as a solid #2 center easily. He has had a couple 40-45 point seasons plus his 25 points in 31 games in 08-09.

Right now he is at 22 in 35. Extrapolates to 51.5 points for 82 games.
He is a very inefficient #2C then. He shouldn't be a 2C on a contending team, he is far from a complete player. He is pretty soft, weak defensive game and can't win faceoffs. Not to mention he is wildly inconsistent.

The untapped potential I'm talking about is that he gets more relied upon to round out his game and become a two-way 3rd line center, because that's the only way I see him staying long term. It isn't too late of course, Steven Weiss transitioned his game from a soft perimeter player a few yrs ago to a competent 2-way centerman.

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04-04-2013, 03:28 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What is untapped potential? Him increasing his production to 50-55 points/season? That slots him in as a solid #2 center easily. He has had a couple 40-45 point seasons plus his 25 points in 31 games in 08-09.

Right now he is at 22 in 35. Extrapolates to 51.5 points for 82 games.
When Columbus drafted him #6 overall, something tells me they were expecting more than a 2nd/3rd line tweener, which is what he has been...on a terrible team.

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04-04-2013, 03:32 PM
  #213
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When Columbus drafted him #6 overall, something tells me they were expecting more than a 2nd/3rd line tweener, which is what he has been...on a terrible team.
Does it matter what they wanted him to be? I am sure the Kings wanted Boyle to be more than a 3rd/4th liner. That doesn't matter to the Rangers.

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He is a very inefficient #2C then. He shouldn't be a 2C on a contending team, he is far from a complete player. He is pretty soft, weak defensive game and can't win faceoffs. Not to mention he is wildly inconsistent.

The untapped potential I'm talking about is that he gets more relied upon to round out his game and become a two-way 3rd line center, because that's the only way I see him staying long term. It isn't too late of course, Steven Weiss transitioned his game from a soft perimeter player a few yrs ago to a competent 2-way centerman.
So you are talking less about his offensive output and more about his 2-way game. I can agree with that because I think offensively, he will be fine as a 2c.

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04-04-2013, 03:39 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Does it matter what they wanted him to be? I am sure the Kings wanted Boyle to be more than a 3rd/4th liner. That doesn't matter to the Rangers.



So you are talking less about his offensive output and more about his 2-way game. I can agree with that because I think offensively, he will be fine as a 2c.
Not quite. I don't think Derick Brassard should be a 2C on any contending team, rather he could be one on a consistent bottom feeder (like Columbus). I also don't think his defense is good enough to fill the philosophy on a Tortorella run team, need to be good defensively to be a 3C. Brassard would be a perfect 3C on a team like Detroit that used to run 3 scoring lines and one checking line. He'd fill in as their Hudler role.

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04-04-2013, 03:44 PM
  #215
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ROR is a 40-50 point player...ppl wanted to trade MDZ+ to get him.

Brassard is an average 2nd line center...and we'll be playing him at 3rd line center...so it lets us underslot someone for a change, rather than overslot them.

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04-04-2013, 03:47 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Not quite. I don't think Derick Brassard should be a 2C on any contending team, rather he could be one on a consistent bottom feeder (like Columbus). I also don't think his defense is good enough to fill the philosophy on a Tortorella run team, need to be good defensively to be a 3C. Brassard would be a perfect 3C on a team like Detroit that used to run 3 scoring lines and one checking line. He'd fill in as their Hudler role.
If your wingers are good defensively, you can have an offensive 3c. Peverly is decent defensively. Not great. That works for Boston. Desharnais/Galchenyuk is the 3c for Montreal.

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04-04-2013, 03:52 PM
  #217
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I seems pretty normal to be.

When I first heard that Gaborik was traded to Columbus, my initial reaction was "Back to Columbus?"
Yea same, for some odd reason i feel like he belongs there. I'm actually really happy he got sent to columbus. I like rooting for them. They have so many former rangers it's absurd.

Certainly my second favorite team.

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04-04-2013, 03:54 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
If your wingers are good defensively, you can have an offensive 3c. Peverly is decent defensively. Not great. That works for Boston. Desharnais/Galchenyuk is the 3c for Montreal.
Montreal and Boston are two deeper teams. And their special teams(Mon/pp/pk, Bos/pk) are difference makers. I guess that's why they are the top of the East.

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04-04-2013, 03:55 PM
  #219
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ROR is a 40-50 point player...ppl wanted to trade MDZ+ to get him.

Brassard is an average 2nd line center...and we'll be playing him at 3rd line center...so it lets us underslot someone for a change, rather than overslot them.
...? ROR already scored 55 points as a 20 year old while being elite defensively. Brassard has scored 47 points while being a liability defensively as a 25 year old.

If ROR is a 40-50 point player, the. Brassard is a 30-40 point player.

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04-04-2013, 03:57 PM
  #220
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If gabby isn't scoring goals then the opponent is on a power play when gabbys on the ice. I think he's one of the most overpaid players in the league.
I swear when gabs first got here he played great defense it really stood out and it allowed him to create his own scoring opportunities or he'd use his passing which was phenomenal that first year and get others an opportunity. His D seemed to erode and disappear by last year though. he also rarely seemed to make passes this year

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04-04-2013, 03:59 PM
  #221
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Perfect trade and the players they received all have high value around the league. They got younger and added long term pieces for a player who was going to leave when his contract was up. Good move.
Agreed with this completely. That 6th needed to be a 4th though

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04-04-2013, 03:59 PM
  #222
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Montreal and Boston are two deeper teams. And their special teams(Mon/pp/pk, Bos/pk) are difference makers. I guess that's why they are the top of the East.
I think Boston is the model honestly. There is no reason why the Rangers PP and PK can't be at the top of the league with the talent they have.

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04-04-2013, 03:59 PM
  #223
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If your wingers are good defensively, you can have an offensive 3c. Peverly is decent defensively. Not great. That works for Boston. Desharnais/Galchenyuk is the 3c for Montreal.
This won't happen in a Tortorella team though and those teams are much deeper at the C position than the Rangers.

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04-04-2013, 03:59 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Does it matter what they wanted him to be? I am sure the Kings wanted Boyle to be more than a 3rd/4th liner. That doesn't matter to the Rangers.



So you are talking less about his offensive output and more about his 2-way game. I can agree with that because I think offensively, he will be fine as a 2c.
not every 1st or 2nd center has to be a two way player... but give it time still only 25, start his career on a rough team.. if reaches potential then that would be telling and mean richards is a goner..stepan is a 2way center so it works out perfectly.. at the end of next year we'll see what direction our team is taking.. i say that bc 90% of our team's contracts are up.. should be interesting..

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04-04-2013, 03:59 PM
  #225
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It's definitely a different model. They aren't going to have a center who starts >30% of their shifts in the defensive zone and matches up against other teams' top lines consistently. More of a Matt Cullen model.

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