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Old
03-22-2013, 04:53 PM
  #676
Groucho
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I will liken this to workplace safety.
Even just several decades ago, Iron Workers managed to help build many large complex structures without the use of PPE and fall protection devices. The vast majority of the work force was able to go home every night, but accidents happened and sometimes people died.

Now a days the construction world would never even consider working this way despite a proven history of being able to do if the work force was simply 'being careful'. Even government regulatory authorities have gotten involved to make sure preventative safety measures are in place at all times for people doing the work.

So while you specifically may have never had an accident, and many others also haven't, it's for every bodies betterment to use the safer equipment available to us. Like the other poster said, in many places it's illegal to drive without specific winter tires. Quebec did this several years ago and it caused a major shortage country wide of winter tire availability.

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03-22-2013, 04:54 PM
  #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Nobody is arguing this. What is being argued is whether its possible to drive safely without the innovation. Presumably it is.
I think you may the only person having that argument. From what I gather, everyone else is just saying winter tires are a lot better. And they are.

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03-22-2013, 04:56 PM
  #678
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Quote:
So I'm more dangerous than zero accidents in my driving history?

Explain how that logic works.
It doesn't work because you are using a logical fallacy.

That your safety record is flawless without winter tires doesn't mean that winter tires are not better than all seasons for winter driving.

It more likely means you don't drive like a twit and that the benefits of having winter tires probably won't see much (if any) benefit for you, so they probably aren't worth the cost.

It doesn't mean that winter tires aren't safer. It means, for you, all season tires are safe enough.

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Old
03-22-2013, 05:01 PM
  #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
I think you may the only person having that argument. From what I gather, everyone else is just saying winter tires are a lot better. And they are.
Still, its possible to have discussion on it and to offer competing information. I've had this discussion before in other venues and have researched the topic comprehensively.

ftr, if we were having the discussion on ABS brakes 10, 20 yrs ago and I had the audacity to question the assumed safety of them people would be calling me a luddite, ignorant, misinformed etc.

Except that people that challenged the assumptions of that *safety* innovation were correct in that instance as well.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...crashes-by-34/

All I'm saying is lets see how snow tire innovation does or does not improve actual safety before concluding it does.

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03-22-2013, 05:05 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
It doesn't work because you are using a logical fallacy.

That your safety record is flawless without winter tires doesn't mean that winter tires are not better than all seasons for winter driving.

It more likely means you don't drive like a twit and that the benefits of having winter tires probably won't see much (if any) benefit for you, so they probably aren't worth the cost.

It doesn't mean that winter tires aren't safer. It means, for you, all season tires are safe enough.
Agreed with everything here. But surely in this you see that blanket statements that not using snowtires is "Dangerous" is clearly false for a lot of skilled drivers out there.

The question becomes whether or not one absolutely NEEDS snowtires to drive safely in prairie, urban conditions. I think we know what the answer is.

It simply isn't necessary for me to use snow tires to mitigate the hazards I face in driving.

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03-22-2013, 05:08 PM
  #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
I will liken this to workplace safety.
Even just several decades ago, Iron Workers managed to help build many large complex structures without the use of PPE and fall protection devices. The vast majority of the work force was able to go home every night, but accidents happened and sometimes people died.

Now a days the construction world would never even consider working this way despite a proven history of being able to do if the work force was simply 'being careful'. Even government regulatory authorities have gotten involved to make sure preventative safety measures are in place at all times for people doing the work.

So while you specifically may have never had an accident, and many others also haven't, it's for every bodies betterment to use the safer equipment available to us. Like the other poster said, in many places it's illegal to drive without specific winter tires. Quebec did this several years ago and it caused a major shortage country wide of winter tire availability.
ftr when in the construction industry I advocated and argued for increased safety equipment, harnesses, railings, etc. I'm a safety first person, and drive, and make decisions not to drive, on that basis.

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03-22-2013, 05:32 PM
  #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
Wrongo. If it's straight ice and everyone slows right down, everyone gets home safe. Your macho BS is far worse than people driving according to the conditions.

Hey SephF, is it safe to use winter tires in the summer in your opinion? We're talking maybe putting 5000 KMs on them on one summer season. I've heard it's not dangerous, and with the right winter tires you don't burn too much tread off of them.
It's fine but they create a lot more friction so you're going to burn through a lot more gas and you'll wear your tread out fast.

With our work trucks we keep winters on them year round (Hankook RW11's) and just replace them once a year at the start of winter (keep in mind we put a TON of KM's on these trucks a year, at least 50,000km).


In my opinion it's not worth doing it because you're going to go through your tires way faster and end up having to replace them sooner which will offset the savings.

Get a set of winters and have a set of summers, swap them at the appropriate time and you won't have to worry about replacing your tires for years and years and years. It's a higher upfront cost but you'll save money over the course of the life of your tires, especially if you're paying to get winters taken off / put on every season.
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
You lose some control with winters on in the dry months. They are made with metal studs to stick into the ice for better traction. The worse part is that you wear out the studs in summer and lose what you paid for in the first place by wearing out the studs. If you're going to invest in winter tires change them when the snow goes.
It's pretty rare that tires come from the factory studded, Gislaved Nord*Frosts do, that's all I know of. For the most part tires come pinned with stud holes and you just stud them yourself if you want them. A lot of models don't even come with stud holes... not every winter tire is studdable and there are even some non-winter tires that are studdable (usually mud-terrains)

My winter tires don't have studs at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
We have different perspectives on this which is fine. What I'm doing works for me and the vast majority of drivers in the prairie regions. I'm sure thats a huge source of concern for you in lost sales.

lets be clear here as well. YOU have vested interest in the discussion and thanks btw for disclosing that which I appreciate. I have no horses in this game. Just a different perspective.
hahah forsure buddy. It's just obvious that you'll have better control of your vehicle with winter tires.

I used to rock all seasons in the winter until I finally made the switch, I'll never go back again after experiencing the huge difference.

Not really concerned with lost sales because if you ride your all seasons year round you'll need to replace them faster anyways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
All season tires; commonly referred to in the auto industry as no season tires, because they suck in all conditions.
Yup, you got it. Tire manufacturers hate the term "all season" because it's very misleading.


Last edited by SephF: 03-22-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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Old
03-22-2013, 08:16 PM
  #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Agreed with everything here. But surely in this you see that blanket statements that not using snowtires is "Dangerous" is clearly false for a lot of skilled drivers out there.

The question becomes whether or not one absolutely NEEDS snowtires to drive safely in prairie, urban conditions. I think we know what the answer is.

It simply isn't necessary for me to use snow tires to mitigate the hazards I face in driving.
I'm on the fence of this debate.
Some people definitely need winter tires. It's the safest way for their particular driving habits.

Which habits are those? The bad habit of not paying attention, and not driving according to road conditions. There are just some really crappy drivers that need more help than even winter tires will afford them.

It's fairly simple actually. Some people just cannot drive in the winter. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because they weren't born and raised under the driving conditions that some of us can actually perform correctly.

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Old
03-23-2013, 07:20 PM
  #684
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I drive a lot. At work, at home, I enjoy driving, I'm all over the city and province for the most part. Without making an over extended post because I see its been thoroughly discussed already, I will say winter tires definitely make a difference, at least IMO.

I'm also astonished at how bad Alberta, particularly Edmonton drivers are in the winter months. It's truly pathetic. There should be more testing, schooling or whatever needs be... re-testing after a few years for not only new or young drivers but seniors too, and anyone who's been at fault for an accident or something. I don't know what can or should be done specifically, kinda just talking out of my ass but its really frustrating (putting it mildly)... It's like the snow comes and everyone goes regarded, forget how to drive safely, not rush, everything goes out the window...

All it takes is a little more caution and being a patient, courteous person towards your fellow driver, human being on the road, everything goes smoother if people are actually thoughtful and aware of each other. Cuz the conditions can get real bad as we've seen. The amount of aggressive, downright *******-ish drivers out there is amazing. Wonders never cease, lol.

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03-23-2013, 07:40 PM
  #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
I drive a lot. At work, at home, I enjoy driving, I'm all over the city and province for the most part. Without making an over extended post because I see its been thoroughly discussed already, I will say winter tires definitely make a difference, at least IMO.

I'm also astonished at how bad Alberta, particularly Edmonton drivers are in the winter months. It's truly pathetic. There should be more testing, schooling or whatever needs be... re-testing after a few years for not only new or young drivers but seniors too, and anyone who's been at fault for an accident or something. I don't know what can or should be done specifically, kinda just talking out of my ass but its really frustrating (putting it mildly)... It's like the snow comes and everyone goes regarded, forget how to drive safely, not rush, everything goes out the window...

All it takes is a little more caution and being a patient, courteous person towards your fellow driver, human being on the road, everything goes smoother if people are actually thoughtful and aware of each other. Cuz the conditions can get real bad as we've seen. The amount of aggressive, downright *******-ish drivers out there is amazing. Wonders never cease, lol.
Testing can't fix *******s though, unfortunately. All they have to do is stop being *******s for a half hour.

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04-04-2013, 05:07 PM
  #686
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We in for another dump tonight?

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04-04-2013, 05:20 PM
  #687
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We in for another dump tonight?
10 cm,plus 5-10 mm of freezing rain.



Just freakin beautiful.

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04-04-2013, 05:21 PM
  #688
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The never-ending Spring of my Discontent trudges on.

What began with a prediction of a "dusting" to 5cm has since become - last I heard - between 5 - 10cm.

I'd use a but it won't do my experience justice. My delayed golf season start is delayed further still.

D-oh!

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04-04-2013, 05:22 PM
  #689
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The dump Won't last. 2-3 cm. Its -2. More sleet than anything

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04-04-2013, 05:23 PM
  #690
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The dump Won't last. 2-3 cm. Its -2. More sleet than anything
That freezing rain gonna make it so fun in the morning

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04-04-2013, 05:32 PM
  #691
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The dump Won't last. 2-3 cm. Its -2. More sleet than anything
It'll be believed when it's seen.

Wasn't it only recently that they'd called for 10-15cm for the metro area and some parts wound up with 30+?

Call me cynical. I'll turn in your direction and say yes.

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04-05-2013, 11:22 AM
  #692
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Very poor roads west of the city going to Stony and Spruce. Take your time. Nothing but ice this morning.

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04-05-2013, 11:37 AM
  #693
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Can't wait for my christmas presents!

No wonder Lauren hated it here.

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04-05-2013, 11:55 AM
  #694
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Snow shovel is stuck in ice where I left it and I'm kinda fine with that. I figure needing the ice chipper to dig out the snow shovel is at the point of being ridiculous on April 5. Of course I'd need a hammer and chisel to dig out the ice chipper where I left it..

The great outdoors can be that without me today..

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04-05-2013, 12:12 PM
  #695
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Snow shovel is stuck in ice where I left it and I'm kinda fine with that. I figure needing the ice chipper to dig out the snow shovel is at the point of being ridiculous on April 5. Of course I'd need a hammer and chisel to dig out the ice chipper where I left it..

The great outdoors can be that without me today..
I laughed.
As did my co-workers.

Well done.

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04-05-2013, 12:18 PM
  #696
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Snow shovel is stuck in ice where I left it and I'm kinda fine with that. I figure needing the ice chipper to dig out the snow shovel is at the point of being ridiculous on April 5. Of course I'd need a hammer and chisel to dig out the ice chipper where I left it..

The great outdoors can be that without me today..
Post your address and I'll come by with my ice chipper to free all of your tools.

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04-05-2013, 12:20 PM
  #697
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Snow shovel is stuck in ice where I left it and I'm kinda fine with that. I figure needing the ice chipper to dig out the snow shovel is at the point of being ridiculous on April 5. Of course I'd need a hammer and chisel to dig out the ice chipper where I left it..

The great outdoors can be that without me today..
Probably would've been quicker to go to wal-mart and buy one of their shovels that have been on clearance.

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Old
04-05-2013, 12:48 PM
  #698
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I laughed.
As did my co-workers.

Well done.
Thanks, I had an inspired moment of wintry inspiration. Gotta say the deck furniture looks pretty stupid with icestorm all over it. I think I was anticipating/hoping for a different weekend than this..

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Post your address and I'll come by with my ice chipper to free all of your tools.
Only if you promise to bring along a signed RR jersey

Just stuff it in the mailbox, I'll get the backyard firepit going.

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Probably would've been quicker to go to wal-mart and buy one of their shovels that have been on clearance.
Thanks, I'm just in the garage trying to find the heatgun I left somewhere under the canoe that I have filled with stacked boxes of 500 types of throw in the garage thingys including my snow tires..I figure if I find the heatgun that I can thaw out my snowboots that are stuck to the deck. Oh, I just found the axe, time for some home repairs.



Last edited by Replacement: 04-05-2013 at 01:06 PM.
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Old
04-12-2013, 10:10 AM
  #699
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http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/warni...631cweg-076400


City of Edmonton - St. Albert - Sherwood Park
4:29 AM MDT Friday 12 April 2013
Snowfall warning for
City of Edmonton - St. Albert - Sherwood Park issued

Heavy snow beginning tonight.

A low pressure system will develop over Alberta tonight bringing with it a band of heavy snow. Current guidance suggests the band will set up from the Whitecourt region through the Capital region and into areas east of Red Deer. Total snowfall amounts up to 20 cm are possible by Sunday.


Will Spring ever arrive?

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04-12-2013, 10:13 AM
  #700
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the ****...

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