HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Ted Black interview this morning

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-04-2013, 04:01 PM
  #76
TakeThatTootoo
Gare's "Partner"
 
TakeThatTootoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,460
vCash: 500
Here's what it comes down to with Myers. He or someone in the organization needs to choose what they want. Do they want him to play bigger, Shea Weber type? Or do they want him leading rushes, going deep into the offensive zone and focus on his speed?

I've come to find out that we can't have both. You either bulk up with muscles, which means more blood going through the muscles and more oxygen intake. Or you try for that lean muscle and low body fat %.

As all of us runner's know, you get the runner's face after a bit and look like skeletor. However, our cardio is so excellent we can go for 20+ miles at an 8 min/mi clip.

The whole point of this post is this: Myers cannot bulk up and stay the same player he is now or in past. You don't see Shea Weber flying around like Myers does, do you?

TakeThatTootoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:07 PM
  #77
Myllz
ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF
 
Myllz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 13,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeThatTootoo View Post
Here's what it comes down to with Myers. He or someone in the organization needs to choose what they want. Do they want him to play bigger, Shea Weber type? Or do they want him leading rushes, going deep into the offensive zone and focus on his speed?

I've come to find out that we can't have both. You either bulk up with muscles, which means more blood going through the muscles and more oxygen intake. Or you try for that lean muscle and low body fat %.

As all of us runner's know, you get the runner's face after a bit and look like skeletor. However, our cardio is so excellent we can go for 20+ miles at an 8 min/mi clip.

The whole point of this post is this: Myers cannot bulk up and stay the same player he is now or in past. You don't see Shea Weber flying around like Myers does, do you?
What the Sabres need to do is start looking for a Weber type and stop trying to have Myers be it. Pair Myers with a Weber type of defenseman and let him run around doing his thing for 30 minutes a night.

Myllz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:10 PM
  #78
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
What the Sabres need to do is start looking for a Weber type and stop trying to have Myers be it. Pair Myers with a Weber type of defenseman and let him run around doing his thing for 30 minutes a night.
The point thats being missed by many is the focus of Myer's workouts have been geared towards that. They are geared towards giving him the endurance/strength to handle playing big minutes. Its not about him just bulking up. That Myers keeps trying to do this on his own and failing is the problem not that he is being asked to do this.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:12 PM
  #79
Myllz
ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF
 
Myllz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 13,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
The point thats being missed by many is the focus of Myer's workouts have been geared towards that. They are geared towards going him the endurnace and strength to play big minutes. Its not about him just bulking up. That Myers keeps trying to do this on his own and failing is the problem not that he is being asked to do this.
Hire Gary Roberts as the team strength and conditioning coach. Problem solved.

Start throwing money at him, Terry.

Myllz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:12 PM
  #80
Der Jaeger
Registered User
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
I wouldn't say solid enough to win a Cup, but leadership acknowledging a failed approach and correcting it is encouraging, in ANY organization: sports, work, military, volunteer charity, etc.
Being a military officer, I take a ton of interest in organizational structure. I think the Sabres' ownership and front office is solid enough to win a Cup with.

- Owner/leader that provides a vision of what he wants to achieve, and enough resources to subordinates to achieve that vision? Check.

- Organizational structure that's sound, with clean and easy to understand levels of hierarchy? Check.

- Decision makers with enough foresight to re-evaluate subordinate performance, and make necessary changes? Check.

- Decision makers that understand when the situation changes, and redesigns their plans accordingly? Check.

- Charisma in team leadership? Check (Pegula).

- Effort put into creating a winning culture? Check.

- Ability to learn from mistakes? Check.

Too many folks will take the view that the Sabres aren't strong enough organizationally to win a Cup based on Regier remaining as the GM. I don't agree. Keeping Regier now doesn't mean he's staying. They've clearly determined that Regier's mistakes were in taking a chance, and he failed, but he's getting another opportunity under their leadership. That's a far cry from endorsing failure. If Regier fails again, he'll go, just like Ruff. The notes I outlined above don't change, or even hinge, on the GM. The leader (Pegula) and the structure (Sabres organization) are sound. The rudder steer of the past few weeks prove that.

Der Jaeger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:18 PM
  #81
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Hire Gary Roberts as the team strength and conditioning coach. Problem solved.

Start throwing money at him, Terry.
At the very least send Myers to Gary.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:20 PM
  #82
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Being a military officer, I take a ton of interest in organizational structure. I think the Sabres' ownership and front office is solid enough to win a Cup with.

- Owner/leader that provides a vision of what he wants to achieve, and enough resources to subordinates to achieve that vision? Check.

- Organizational structure that's sound, with clean and easy to understand levels of hierarchy? Check.

- Decision makers with enough foresight to re-evaluate subordinate performance, and make necessary changes? Check.

- Decision makers that understand when the situation changes, and redesigns their plans accordingly? Check.

- Charisma in team leadership? Check (Pegula).

- Effort put into creating a winning culture? Check.

- Ability to learn from mistakes? Check.

Too many folks will take the view that the Sabres aren't strong enough organizationally to win a Cup based on Regier remaining as the GM. I don't agree. Keeping Regier now doesn't mean he's staying. They've clearly determined that Regier's mistakes were in taking a chance, and he failed, but he's getting another opportunity under their leadership. That's a far cry from endorsing failure. If Regier fails again, he'll go, just like Ruff. The notes I outlined above don't change, or even hinge, on the GM. The leader (Pegula) and the structure (Sabres organization) are sound. The rudder steer of the past few weeks prove that.
Fantastic post and great points.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:21 PM
  #83
MayDay
Registered User
 
MayDay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mount Kisco, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,604
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
It goes well beyond those 3. Think of all the talent we had throughout the organization coming out of the lockout.
Interestingly enough, when you think about it, those great post-lockout teams weren't really built through the draft.

Briere - acquired via trade
Drury - acquired via trade
Tim Connolly - acquired via trade
Toni Lydman - acquired via trade
Teppo Numminen - free agent signing

Sure, younger guys like Roy and Miller and Vanek and Dumont and McKee and Gaustad and Tallinder and Campbell were home-grown.

But when you look at the core of those teams (top three centers and key veteran defensemen), they were all acquired from outside the organization.

MayDay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:22 PM
  #84
Der Jaeger
Registered User
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
At the very least send Myers to Gary.
Agree. I think Myers turns around with a combination of a new coach, letting him play his natural game, and a sound off-season strength and conditioning program.

Der Jaeger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:34 PM
  #85
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
Interestingly enough, when you think about it, those great post-lockout teams weren't really built through the draft.

Briere - acquired via trade
Drury - acquired via trade
Tim Connolly - acquired via trade
Toni Lydman - acquired via trade
Teppo Numminen - free agent signing

Sure, younger guys like Roy and Miller and Vanek and Dumont and McKee and Gaustad and Tallinder and Campbell were home-grown.

But when you look at the core of those teams (top three centers and key veteran defensemen), they were all acquired from outside the organization.
You're completely missing the point. Its not about how that depth was acquired. Its that we had an incredibly deep team/organization after the lockout and let a sizable amount of very valubale assets leave for NOTHING. The previous owners policies led to the worst potential management of the assets we had at the time. It led to a gutting of the organization of talent and give us few tools to replenish with. In order to start replenishing that depth we needed to step back and do what we've done the last to deadlines but that wasn't allowed by the previous regime. So we were stuck on the 6-10th place hamster wheel.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 04:41 PM
  #86
Ruckus007
Said too much
 
Ruckus007's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 7,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
The point thats being missed by many is the focus of Myer's workouts have been geared towards that. They are geared towards giving him the endurance/strength to handle playing big minutes. Its not about him just bulking up. That Myers keeps trying to do this on his own and failing is the problem not that he is being asked to do this.
Didn't they (Regier, Ruff) make a point that, during Myers' rookie year they made a point that they were spending time with him off ice working on time management, life-management type stuff. "Learning how to be an NHLer" is how I remember it. Did that just end?

I have trouble believing that they did have any input on his offseason workouts so I don't know where this breakdown has happened but it is certainly possible that he's adhering to a bad workout plan, not doing a bad job of trying to follow a good workout plan. Either way, to me the front office has some percentage of culpability.



Which gets to why I have I little faith in Regier being able to pull off this rebuilding effort. I don't understand the direction of this team. After the Olympics we heard about them being a more puck-possession, Detroit-like team but it never happened. Forechecking has been anathema to the entire Regier era. His idea of team toughness seems to be have a couple of pests and an enforcer and say that's that. He didn't do a good job of matching acquisitions to coach and philosophy (Boyes, Leino). Their prospects seems to stagnate once they get to the NHL level. He's superbly adept at asset acquisition but beyond that one factor, I just don't see why I should have faith in him.

Ruckus007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 05:00 PM
  #87
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruckus007 View Post
Didn't they (Regier, Ruff) make a point that, during Myers' rookie year they made a point that they were spending time with him off ice working on time management, life-management type stuff. "Learning how to be an NHLer" is how I remember it. Did that just end?
They did but that was during the season. I'm talking about the offseason where little control can be exerted on a players.

Quote:
I have trouble believing that they did have any input on his offseason workouts so I don't know where this breakdown has happened but it is certainly possible that he's adhering to a bad workout plan, not doing a bad job of trying to follow a good workout plan. Either way, to me the front office has some percentage of culpability.
I'm sure they have input and make suggestions on his training but its still on him. During the offseason they don't have much control over players.

Myers isn't breaking down during the season. He is showing up to camp unable to handle the big minutes asked of him. Then as the season progresses he gets better and can handle them later in the year. So basically when they have the most control over him (during the season) is when this issue is dealt with and set right. But when he first shows aup and at the start of the season there is a problem. And no offense, but I find it a tad comical that you're arguing they gave him a bad workout plan. That would mean the team doesn't know how to organize workout plans. I don't know of any other Sabres with this issue do you?

And this past year he hung out with Weber and picked his brain on what to do and then during the lockout they had zero control over him. Its seems pretty obvious he is doing his own thing. Then he came into camp worse than ever, though an injured played a role as well.


Quote:
Which gets to why I have I little faith in Regier being able to pull off this rebuilding effort. I don't understand the direction of this team. After the Olympics we heard about them being a more puck-possession, Detroit-like team but it never happened. Forechecking has been anathema to the entire Regier era. His idea of team toughness seems to be have a couple of pests and an enforcer and say that's that. He didn't do a good job of matching acquisitions to coach and philosophy (Boyes, Leino). Their prospects seems to stagnate once they get to the NHL level. He's superbly adept at asset acquisition but beyond that one factor, I just don't see why I should have faith in him.
I'm guessing we'll know more about the team's direction in the summer when decisions are made in regards to a coach, Vanek, Miller and Stafford.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 05:02 PM
  #88
Ruckus007
Said too much
 
Ruckus007's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 7,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'm guessing we'll know more about the team's direction in the summer when decisions are made in regards to a coach, Vanek, Miller and Stafford.

The team direction seems obvious, right? The last two years has me skeptical about the man at the rudder.


Last edited by Ruckus007: 04-04-2013 at 05:07 PM.
Ruckus007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 05:05 PM
  #89
brian_griffin
Measured Intangibles
 
brian_griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Z4QQQ batman symbol
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 6,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Being a military officer, I take a ton of interest in organizational structure. I think the Sabres' ownership and front office is solid enough to win a Cup with.

- Owner/leader that provides a vision of what he wants to achieve, and enough resources to subordinates to achieve that vision? Check. 1st part yes, 2nd part no

- Organizational structure that's sound, with clean and easy to understand levels of hierarchy? Check. yes

- Decision makers with enough foresight to re-evaluate subordinate performance, and make necessary changes? Check. yes (not an issue)

- Decision makers that understand when the situation changes, and redesigns their plans accordingly? Check. 1st part yes, 2nd part not enough

- Charisma in team leadership? Check (Pegula). currently a little lacking in motivate and reward performance

- Effort put into creating a winning culture? Check. creating yes, sustaining is challenging

- Ability to learn from mistakes? Check. TBD

Too many folks will take the view that the Sabres aren't strong enough organizationally to win a Cup based on Regier remaining as the GM. I don't agree. Keeping Regier now doesn't mean he's staying. They've clearly determined that Regier's mistakes were in taking a chance, and he failed, but he's getting another opportunity under their leadership. That's a far cry from endorsing failure. If Regier fails again, he'll go, just like Ruff. The notes I outlined above don't change, or even hinge, on the GM. The leader (Pegula) and the structure (Sabres organization) are sound. The rudder steer of the past few weeks prove that.
I re-read my post. I meant I personally can't assess whether the leadership structure is strong enough to win a Cup, but am very much appreciative and acknowledge organizations / leaders who overtly and publicly define desired future state, correctly assess current state, quantify the gap, and enact a plan to change that gap. I wasn't rebutting your assessment (although re-reading, see how that came across). And I fully appreciate how your life experience enables you to distinguish those qualities / differences.

FYI, in bolded is my assessment of my job situation, not Sabres.

Yours is a good list. I think Colin Powell had a similar one of "qualities of a good leader". One of the points was, if all the above is in place (or items similar), to "get out of the way and let people do their work".

brian_griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 05:06 PM
  #90
beerme1
Registered User
 
beerme1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 186
vCash: 500
Leo's comments? ... The one where he said the locker room was like a morgue or something along those lines?...

How can you attribute that to Miller? They freakin' suck...of course the locker room isn't going to be anything great to be in... They all contribute to that type of environment.
[/QUOTE]

I am attributing Leo's comments towards Miller based on the way Miller carries himself in and out of the dressing room. He is in a constant state of meditation. Turn that music down and get off my lawn type of guy and I'm GUESSING that carries over into the locker and infects people. They no longer have a giddy Derek Roy going around and doing towel snaps and clowning around


Quote:
Originally Posted by GodHatesBuffalo View Post
What? Regier said he is keeping Rolston long term, even after this season?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
No. He didn't. Mountain out of molehill syndrome.
I did not imply that he said that. I said I'm scared that if Darcy is retained RR will be also and I personally don't want any of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
So Regier gets a pass for ****ing the entire bottom six to high heaven and basically costing us the season? He had basically one job, get a defensively competent top 9 pivot so Hodgson wouldn't lead the league in GA/60 and Ennis could keep getting 60% offensive zone starts. Instead, we get 22 games of Grigs/Hecht/McCormick/Ellis.

Kevin Porter and Bryan Flynn displacing Darcy's actual roster players is an absolute disgrace and should cost him his job, and that says nothing about the horrible makeup of the defense under Pegula Bucks Regier, with offensive defensemen and possession sinks for days.

Oh, and he had 100% faith in the idiot coach who's impeded the development of the franchise defenseman and somehow made this roster of mismatched parts worse through how he deployed and rewarded his players.
Darcy failed big time in the roster he put on ice this year. It is sad that he was counting on Grigorenko being able to contribute enough to help the team get by.
He may have been able to if Leino didn't get hurt. But at the same time that's a big roll of the dice. I look around our team and am shocked most nights comparing our talent to other teams. FAIL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
Unless they wrote off this season as a rebuilding year.
They sure didn't try to spin it that way did they? They are now but that's only because of the flop job Darcy gave us.
I am all in for a complete tear down meaning Stafford, Miller and Vanek are gone. Replaced with picks and guys about to be good/great. Top prospects ready to play maybe and live with some mistakes of young guys trying rather than our current crew going the motions with no heart, no emotion, and no skill.
On the other hand, bringing in John Scott might have been a sign that we are rebuilding dunno.

beerme1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 05:07 PM
  #91
stokes84
Registered User
 
stokes84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,189
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Hire Gary Roberts as the team strength and conditioning coach. Problem solved.

Start throwing money at him, Terry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
At the very least send Myers to Gary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Agree. I think Myers turns around with a combination of a new coach, letting him play his natural game, and a sound off-season strength and conditioning program.
You guys realize that a training regiment for one guy might not be the right one for another guy, right? Kind of sick of hearing about Gary Roberts as if he's the only personal trainer with any credibility.

stokes84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 05:21 PM
  #92
tsujimoto74
Registered User
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 9,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
You guys realize that a training regiment for one guy might not be the right one for another guy, right? Kind of sick of hearing about Gary Roberts as if he's the only personal trainer with any credibility.
You that Roberts can (and does) make more than one diet and workout plan, right? I'm sure Cody Hodgson trying to recover from a back injury wasn't there doing the same workout as Stamkos.

tsujimoto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 06:28 PM
  #93
stokes84
Registered User
 
stokes84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,189
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
You that Roberts can (and does) make more than one diet and workout plan, right? I'm sure Cody Hodgson trying to recover from a back injury wasn't there doing the same workout as Stamkos.
Yup, he must be the only credible trainer out there. The only way to get into peak form is to work out with him.

Everyone loves bringing him up, but the reports on him are fluff pieces. All of these guys have direction and most have very good personal trainers.

stokes84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 06:35 PM
  #94
boots electric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,240
vCash: 500
Counterpoint: Vancouver's training staff

boots electric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 06:53 PM
  #95
vcv
Moderator
Deal with it
 
vcv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Williamsville, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,472
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to vcv
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Yup, he must be the only credible trainer out there. The only way to get into peak form is to work out with him.

Everyone loves bringing him up, but the reports on him are fluff pieces. All of these guys have direction and most have very good personal trainers.
He has the most respected training program right now. Besides that, he was a well known gym rat. Can you really blame people for wanting to send someone like Myers to him?

vcv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 07:02 PM
  #96
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
He has the most respected training program right now. Besides that, he was a well known gym rat. Can you really blame people for wanting to send someone like Myers to him?
It's pretty funny how Stokes honestly thinks it's only Gary Roberts in a gymnasium training players "his way". At least that's how it comes across....


http://www.fitnessinstitute.com/gary...rhpc-trainers/

ZZamboni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 07:48 PM
  #97
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
It's pretty funny how Stokes honestly thinks it's only Gary Roberts in a gymnasium training players "his way". At least that's how it comes across....


http://www.fitnessinstitute.com/gary...rhpc-trainers/
Hodgson trains with Roberts
Stokes is fed up with hearing about Roberts

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 07:53 PM
  #98
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Hodgson trains with Roberts
Stokes is fed up with hearing about Roberts
What would happen if Ennis trained with Roberts crew?




ZZamboni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 08:02 PM
  #99
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
What would happen if Ennis trained with Roberts crew?

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2013, 08:10 PM
  #100
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Touché

ZZamboni is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.