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All Hail Shero: The Best Damn GM In The Business

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Old
04-04-2013, 08:22 PM
  #76
DoktorZaius
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
You really didn't dispute my point though.

I wasn't aware Morrow was the only veteran guy available, and I have no clue how you can argue the price is worth it based on how he looks and what his ultimate impact will be.

Then there is Glass who really has no business playing on this roster given the players we already have on this team. He's looked horrible all season.

As for your last part, see my last post on that subject. Clearly I think he's a great GM too.
If your problems with Shero are Morrow and Glass, that's completely understandable. But complaining about every trade that isn't Neal/Iginla/Kunitz, or every draft selection that didn't hew rigidly to TSN's projected draft board is arrogant and silly. Clearly you're not in that crowd, but some are.

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04-04-2013, 08:24 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by DoktorZaius View Post
If your problems with Shero are Morrow and Glass, that's completely understandable. But complaining about every trade that isn't Neal/Iginla/Kunitz, or every draft selection that didn't hew rigidly to TSN's projected draft board is arrogant and silly. Clearly you're not in that crowd, but some are.
I didn't even say I had a problem with him. I'm just saying he's not some all powerful deity like some people in this thread like to claim. I didn't even complain about every trade, so I'm not sure where you're getting that at.

He's a great GM that makes great moves, but still makes some bad decisions from time to time. He's human, much to the disappointment of some people.

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04-04-2013, 08:28 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Seriously. Some people think he ***** gold and pisses excellence. Clearly he's an awesome GM, and I really wouldn't want anybody else running this ship, but I'm not about to give him a free ride on every move he makes either. Some are good, some are great, and some are pretty bad. Such as it is being human.
Then you agree with the thread's premise. What's the issue?

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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
You really didn't dispute my point though.

I wasn't aware Morrow was the only veteran guy available, and I have no clue how you can argue the price is worth it based on how he looks and what his ultimate impact will be.
I don't base my evaluations on a few games. It's that kind of knee-jerk reaction that prompts the rampant idiocy we saw around here at the start of the season.

Morrow is a gritty, playoff-proven veteran and respected leader. How many of those were available at the deadline? What did they go for? Exactly.

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Then there is Glass who really has no business playing on this roster given the players we already have on this team. He's looked horrible all season.
That's a crack-smoking move? Signing an easily movable prolific hitter and regular PKer who makes 1.1 mil per? Your definition of "crack-smoking" is pretty loose.

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Originally Posted by Wingerz View Post
He made a panic move with Michalek. Isn't Muchalek playing on the top defensive pairing for PHX? They basically acquired him for free. But we just signed Ruopp!

There's nothing he could do about Staal. I wanted them to draft Keasel back then because the last thing we needed was a center.

I have no problem with letting Sullivan and Asham walk but find some respectable replacements.
Respond to the post I made to you, not Ragamuffin.

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04-04-2013, 08:29 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I didn't even say I had a problem with him. I'm just saying he's not some all powerful deity like some people in this thread like to claim.
Totally, poorly worded on my part. There may be people who think he can do no wrong, I'm not sure, but it's the people that tear him to shreds over all the hypothetical deals that he should have done that irritates me and many others. If anything, it's probably galvanized us to support Shero more than we otherwise would.

To be honest, I question the hell out of Morrow and Glass. I'd only defend Morrow so far on the grounds that it let Shero signal to Iggy that he was going all-in, and that this was the place he wanted to be if he wanted to hoist the cup. But looking at that deal in isolation, it's been dreadful. And Glass is only okay insofar as he can probably be scrapped pretty easily.

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04-04-2013, 08:31 PM
  #80
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Seriously RRP, you need to clam down when replying to my posts. You literally take everything I say and blow it out of proportion and get yourself in a tizzy over it. Just take what I say at face value, and we'll be good.

I was making a comment in a thread about people genuflecting to Shero. I disagreed somewhat. So sue me.

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04-04-2013, 08:31 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
It should be obvious.

He's made more outstanding trades than any GM in the league, his rare misses have not once burned us for anything substantial, and his drafting has yielded some very promising players. If you're not in the "In Shero We Trust" crowd at this point, it's pretty clear no GM could satisfy your expectations.
Apparently it isn't. Please enlighten me, oh wise one.

He's made Three amazing trades (Hossa, Neal and Kunitz) and has been given a free pass for everything that hasn't worked because of it.

He went all in for ZP and didn't have a back up plan. "Shero can't force players to sigh here and how could he possibly think about anyone else and talk to Sp at the same time?"

He made a terrible reach for Pouliot at 8th. "Shero must know something that other Gms don't. DP is totally gonna be a stud!"

He only drafts Dmen. "Every PMD can be traded for a 40 goal scorer, just look at Neal and Kunitz!"

He doesn't sign Semin because he isn't a Shero guy. "Who knows if he even looked at Semin or if he wanted to come here."

He doesn't do anythign at last year's TDL. "Prices were way too high and he was getting the best player in the world anyway!"

Shero is a great GM but he isn't a ****ing god. The excuses are endless from some of you.

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04-04-2013, 08:43 PM
  #82
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I feel Shero is getting short-sighted here, when it comes to Pittsburgh being an attraction to potential free agents/players with no-trades. Yes, having Crosby and Malkin was the main factor to Iginla only waiving to come to Pittsburgh, but let's not forget about the reputation of the Penguins organization now a days. Shero (and ownership) have built up a reputation around the league that practically only compliments are heard from former players anymore. Shero is a big part of that, as he's complied with a lot of player demands, and is always 1st-class in the press conferences in terms of giving the best wishes to players moving on. He traded Michalek to a situation that was comfortable to him, instead of getting the best deal back in return. Players around the league see this, and it helps build the trust for our own players towards him. An underrated aspect of being a General Manager is having the respect of your organization from top-to-bottom, and simply put, Shero has all of it. Here's an exert from Jokinen yesterday:

"I'm really excited," Jokinen said. "I've heard nothing but great things about the organization."

http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.ht...id=DL|PIT|home

Truly, the guy has made some big-time winning moves over the years, and has done it with class all the way. He didn't sit there last year bashing Parise for not signing with him at his PC, even though some find it reasonable to bash him for not landing Zach I know some people will never be satisfied, but what more can you ask of your general manager? Shero is conservative enough not to make a desperate move, but at the same time is ballsy enough to make the right deal at the right time. He's made amazing trades through his tenure here, while also getting some low-risk free agent signings that proved to be Stanley Cup winning moves.

Also what needs to be mentioned is Shero's great cap management. We didn't have to trade half our team to meet the cap like Chicago in 2010. We've never had a contract that literally destroyed our cap-structure under Shero's tenure (see Gomez, Komiserik, and to a lesser extent Luongo.) The guy simply gets the best possible value on contracts, and this is a General Manager who only signed one "loophole" contract in his tenure to help keep the caphit down. We'll lose some players this upcoming summer due to money, but that's the salary cap world, but I'm going to bet people will blame Shero there too. But really, he's done an amazing job managing the salary on this team while having to dish $8.7m to each of his top two players.

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Old
04-04-2013, 08:44 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Apparently it isn't. Please enlighten me, oh wise one.

He's made Three amazing trades (Hossa, Neal and Kunitz) and has been given a free pass for everything that hasn't worked because of it.

He went all in for ZP and didn't have a back up plan. "Shero can't force players to sigh here and how could he possibly think about anyone else and talk to Sp at the same time?"

He made a terrible reach for Pouliot at 8th. "Shero must know something that other Gms don't. DP is totally gonna be a stud!"

He only drafts Dmen. "Every PMD can be traded for a 40 goal scorer, just look at Neal and Kunitz!"

He doesn't sign Semin because he isn't a Shero guy. "Who knows if he even looked at Semin or if he wanted to come here."

He doesn't do anythign at last year's TDL. "Prices were way too high and he was getting the best player in the world anyway!"

Shero is a great GM but he isn't a ****ing god. The excuses are endless from some of you.
Based on what you're saying, you don't believe he's a great GM. You can't make these baseless digs and salvage it with a false-dichotomy -- "he's great, just not a god." Because based on what you're saying, he's making mistakes every step of the way. You shouldn't even think he's a good GM.

To use your parlance, what excuses are needed? You've speculated about a lot of stuff that is completely beyond your ability to have any knowledge about. Why should anyone respect an opinion chock-full of speculation? Instead of just rhetorically posing those questions, answer each and every one of them. What would you have done there, if you were Shero. Then tell us how you know he erred in not doing what you did. Furthermore, tell us how you know it's possible that he even could have done what you wanted him to do. At some point during all of this you may realize that you're full of ****.

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04-04-2013, 08:46 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Seriously RRP, you need to clam down when replying to my posts. You literally take everything I say and blow it out of proportion and get yourself in a tizzy over it. Just take what I say at face value, and we'll be good.

I was making a comment in a thread about people genuflecting to Shero. I disagreed somewhat. So sue me.
I'm perfectly calm. I'm thoroughly addressing the issues you raise.

If you don't like your argument being looked at carefully, that's unfortunate, but it won't change what I do.

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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Apparently it isn't. Please enlighten me, oh wise one.
Shero stared across the proverbial table at Feaster and refused to blink or up the ante, believing his offer and organization were enough to win. They were. He did.

Quote:
He's made Three amazing trades (Hossa, Neal and Kunitz) and has been given a free pass for everything that hasn't worked because of it.
What hasn't worked? Do tell.

Quote:
He went all in for ZP and didn't have a back up plan. "Shero can't force players to sigh here and how could he possibly think about anyone else and talk to Sp at the same time?"
The back-up plan was to go with what we had and load up at the deadline. Considering how we've fared this season to this point and the acquisitions we made at the deadline, I'd say it's worked out pretty flawlessly so far.

Quote:
He made a terrible reach for Pouliot at 8th. "Shero must know something that other Gms don't. DP is totally gonna be a stud!"
Unless I somehow missed Pouliot busting already, there's nothing to criticize about that pick at this point. Not a single thing.

Quote:
He only drafts Dmen. "Every PMD can be traded for a 40 goal scorer, just look at Neal and Kunitz!"
Do we have a bunch of very good wingers right now? Moving forward, does it look like it was a smart idea to draft defensemen?

Quote:
He doesn't sign Semin because he isn't a Shero guy. "Who knows if he even looked at Semin or if he wanted to come here."
We waited and got a better player. A proven playoff player. This criticism holds zero weight.

Quote:
He doesn't do anythign at last year's TDL. "Prices were way too high and he was getting the best player in the world anyway!"
You certainly enjoy criticizing Shero when you think he pays too much for a player at the deadline. If Morrow sticks in your craw and Shero thought that was fair enough to pull the trigger, I suppose you can imagine prices were even worse last year. Would you have preferred him paying that?

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Old
04-04-2013, 08:50 PM
  #85
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Just curious, who would you have like to have seen added?
i honestly dont know. there wasnt really any d-man trade recently that made me say "damn i wish shero was in on that deal." looking at each individual move that shero made to assemble his current blueline, each move is logical.

i just look at the current d-corps overall and find it to be somewhat underwhelming for THE supposed cup favorite. none of the players are really "built" for playoff hockey and the blueline could lack a major stabilizing presence come playoffs..

guys like martin, letang, and niskanen are good regular season players, but have a history of poor play in the playoffs when the intensity ramps up. letang is a bit of a spazz and i question whether he can be the #1 d-man for a club with legit cup aspirations.

orpik plays playoff-style hockey but he seems like a shell of his former self. same with murray.

rest of the guys are either vanilla or rookies.

i think the blueline may lack a stalwart back there. of course, i thought the exact same thing about gonchar and he proved me wrong, so we will see.

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04-04-2013, 08:51 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Apparently it isn't. Please enlighten me, oh wise one.

He's made Three amazing trades (Hossa, Neal and Kunitz) and has been given a free pass for everything that hasn't worked because of it.
You say this like those three trades shouldn't count. Oh did he only make three ridiculously lopsided deals? Most GMs do that every season!

Quote:
He went all in for ZP and didn't have a back up plan. "Shero can't force players to sigh here and how could he possibly think about anyone else and talk to Sp at the same time?"
The reason he was so aggressive about Parise is because he's a sure, long-term pick up. Even with the uncertainty of the lockout looming, there was no risk in going after a guy like that. You can't necessarily say the same thing about the rest of the field.

Quote:
He made a terrible reach for Pouliot at 8th. "Shero must know something that other Gms don't. DP is totally gonna be a stud!"
So now we're criticizing Shero because he didn't follow the TSN draft board to a tee? Perhaps we should get a better idea of how Pouliot will pan out first before we start throwing our toys out of the crib.

Quote:
He only drafts Dmen. "Every PMD can be traded for a 40 goal scorer, just look at Neal and Kunitz!"
One of those Dmen has already been moved during a deadline that saw us add 4 guys to help bolster the lineup for a cup run right now. As we see every single year, dmen are a valuable commodity. When you're blessed with having the two best forwards in the world, both still very young, you can afford to lean towards defense at the draft.

Quote:
He doesn't sign Semin because he isn't a Shero guy. "Who knows if he even looked at Semin or if he wanted to come here."
Whether his fanboys want to admit it or not, Semin was, and still is, a risk. He has well documented attitude issues and his playoff performances have left something to be desired. Dropping 7mil on the guy isn't exactly the safest play to make. It's a gamble that Shero didn't want to make and he wasn't alone in that regard.

Quote:
He doesn't do anythign at last year's TDL. "Prices were way too high and he was getting the best player in the world anyway!"
Oh no! He went one whole deadline without making a move?! Get outta here!

You know, every single season there are many GMs who make no significant moves. Pretty crazy stuff I know.


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04-04-2013, 08:51 PM
  #87
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Sure Shero hasn't been perfect, but he's done pretty darn well for us.

But seriously, can we stop acting like missing out on Semin was such a bad thing? I mean really, this can't be good for a locker room.

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What's so special about [Crosby]? I don't see anything special there. Yes, he does skate well, has a good head, good pass. But there's nothing else. Even if you compare him to Patrick Kane from Chicago ... [Kane] is a much more interesting player. The way he moves, his deking abilities, his thinking on the ice and his anticipation of the play is so superb.

I think that if you take any player, even if he is "dead wood," and start promoting him, you'll get a star. Especially if he scores 100 points. No one is going to care about anyone else. No one is going to care whether he possesses great skill. Let's say you put someone in front of the net and let him deflect pucks in, and he scored 50 goals; everyone will say "Wow!" and then hand him a $10 million per year contract. That's what they like here.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,118770

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04-04-2013, 09:13 PM
  #88
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But you aren't looking at my points I raise carefully. You just blindly defend Bylsma and Shero in every post I read of yours. Any time somebody calls one of them out for legitimate reasons, you just can't handle it and feel compelled to step up to the plate.

Those two make mistakes, and it's perfectly ok to acknowledge them. That doesn't make them horrible at their job. It just makes them wrong from time to time.

That's what being a fan and posting on a message board is all about for crying out loud.

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04-04-2013, 09:21 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
But you aren't looking at my points I raise carefully. You just blindly defend Bylsma and Shero in every post I read of yours. Any time somebody calls one of them out for legitimate reasons, you just can't handle it and feel compelled to step up to the plate.

Those two make mistakes, and it's perfectly ok to acknowledge them. That doesn't make them horrible at their job. It just makes them wrong from time to time.

That's what being a fan and posting on a message board is all about for crying out loud.
The problem is that many of the Shero critics here don't share your levelheaded "nobody is perfect" approach to this topic. A lot of it is just baseless nonsense and whining because Shero didn't do exactly what they wanted. This team is 1st in the NHL and people are still crying about Semin and last season's deadline. People are complaining because he let Michalek and Sullivan, two guys routinely bashed on this board, go for little return(opening up the cap space used to make deals at this year's deadline). I mean it's stuff that is almost unbearable to read sometimes.

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04-04-2013, 09:24 PM
  #90
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I look at Bylsma and Shero as virtually equal. For one they have an excellent track record and it's difficult to argue with. On the other hand both of them frustrate the hell out of me with their biases and stubborness. With both it's hard to argue what has aided their success more, their individual abilities at their jobs or the fact they were gifted two generational talents. For every "great" move someone says shero does you can point to a mistake he has made, he's a human after all. There's some things I like about Shero and some things that drive me nuts. I don't believe in making the perfect the enemy of the good so I am content with Shero as the GM.

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04-04-2013, 09:26 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
The problem is that many of the Shero critics here don't share your levelheaded "nobody is perfect" approach to this topic. A lot of it is just baseless nonsense and whining because Shero didn't do exactly what they wanted. This team is 1st in the NHL and people are still crying about Semin and last season's deadline. People are complaining because he let Michalek and Sullivan, two guys routinely bashed on this board, go for little return(opening up the cap space used to make deals at this year's deadline). I mean it's stuff that is almost unbearable to read sometimes.
When people create threads calling Shero a God or use the "In Shero We Trust" line it invites people to knock them down a few pegs.

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04-04-2013, 09:27 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
When people create threads calling Shero a God or use the "In Shero We Trust" line it invites people to knock them down a few pegs.
lol yeah. i mean come on, look at this thread title.

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04-04-2013, 09:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
But you aren't looking at my points I raise carefully. You just blindly defend Bylsma and Shero in every post I read of yours. Any time somebody calls one of them out for legitimate reasons, you just can't handle it and feel compelled to step up to the plate.

Those two make mistakes, and it's perfectly ok to acknowledge them. That doesn't make them horrible at their job. It just makes them wrong from time to time.

That's what being a fan and posting on a message board is all about for crying out loud.
No, I explicitly addressed your points in post #84. If they're not mistakes, I'm not about to consider them as such.

You have personally taken issue with some of the decisions Shero's made, but you're presenting them as though they've been objectively proven wrong when they haven't. Drafting Pouliot's a definitive mistake already? Really?

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04-04-2013, 09:34 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
lol yeah. i mean come on, look at this thread title.
Somebody should try and refute it. Measure Shero's record against any GM in the league.

The criticisms get a lot harder when you have to try and find someone who's made more good decisions than Shero, fewer costly ones, and whose team has had similar success during their tenure. Just about impossible, I'd wager.

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04-04-2013, 09:38 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Somebody should try and refute it. Measure Shero's decisions and the team's success during his tenure against any GM in the league.

The criticisms get a lot harder when you have to try and find someone who's made more good decisions than Shero, fewer costly ones, and whose team has had similar success during their tenure.
Do those teams also get a Crosby and Malkin, a franchise goaltender, and a plethora of valuable trade chips and a #2 overall draft pick from the previous administration? I hate even talking about Shero but man the levels of which the worship goes on is sickening. It's like you all conveniently overlook all the things handed to him on a silver platter. I guess you could say he didnt screw that up but is that really a measure of someone being "the best"?

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04-04-2013, 09:38 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
When people create threads calling Shero a God or use the "In Shero We Trust" line it invites people to knock them down a few pegs.
I'm not just talking about this thread though. Scan through the whole forum. The acquisition/deadline threads are littered with people still whining about stuff that is not only no longer relevant, but usually completely inaccurate and baseless. The number of times I've seen people dream up trade scenarios out of thin air and then get annoyed at Shero for not pursuing one of these imaginary trade scenarios is embarrassing.

Like I said, I have no problem with being critical as long as someone is being fair. Unfortunately that's not usually the case.

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04-04-2013, 09:39 PM
  #97
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the key for me is that even though Shero makes mistakes, he hasn't really made any big mistakes. He hasn't had any mistakes that have really stuck with him. Right now the worst signing still with us is a 1.1M dollar 4th liner. The biggest question mark deal is Morrow for Morrow. I still think its premature to call that a bad deal btw. Lets let it play out at least through this season.

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04-04-2013, 09:48 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Do those teams also get a Crosby and Malkin, a franchise goaltender, and a plethora of valuable trade chips and a #2 overall draft pick from the previous administration? I hate even talking about Shero but man the levels of which the worship goes on is sickening. It's like you all conveniently overlook all the things handed to him on a silver platter. I guess you could say he didnt screw that up but is that really a measure of someone being "the best"?
Shero inherited a lot of great assets. He also made a lot of fantastic moves to complement and maximize those assets (while giving up relatively little and making precious few mistakes), which is anything but guaranteed.

I honestly don't think one can reasonably expect any better out of a GM in his position.

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04-04-2013, 09:51 PM
  #99
MrBurgundy
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
No, I explicitly addressed your points in post #84. If they're not mistakes, I'm not about to consider them as such.

You have personally taken issue with some of the decisions Shero's made, but you're presenting them as though they've been objectively proven wrong when they haven't. Drafting Pouliot's a definitive mistake already? Really?
When did I ever say this? I don't like the pick, but it's not a failure yet. I never said that.

The two players I did say were mistakes to add to the team are pretty much widely considered to be true. Morrow hasn't looked like he is a guy you give up Joe Morrow for, and Glass sucks. They really aren't even debatable. You can believe otherwise, but I will still think you're wrong.

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04-04-2013, 09:58 PM
  #100
Gooch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Shero inherited a lot of great assets. He also made a lot of fantastic moves to complement and maximize those assets (while giving up relatively little and making precious few mistakes), which is anything but guaranteed.

I honestly don't think one can reasonably expect any better out of a GM in his position.
This reminds me of Marge Simpson's old art teacher who was easily impressed by the most mediocre of achievements.

You overstate what he has done well and understate what he has done poorly.

He could've drafted a whole hell of a lot better, he couldve been more careful with some of his more foolish acquisitions via trade and free agency. He couldve taken advantage of the redwings craze of locking up key players to long term cap friendly deals while that was all the rage. He couldve addressed the top 6 winger situation at least once in a meaningful way in any offseason, sorry Satan doesnt count. I could go on a lot more but when you try to create the picture that someone is perfect you are just inviting others to find flaws.

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