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All Hail Shero: The Best Damn GM In The Business

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Old
04-04-2013, 08:59 PM
  #101
BeauKnows19
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I didn't even say I had a problem with him. I'm just saying he's not some all powerful deity like some people in this thread like to claim. I didn't even complain about every trade, so I'm not sure where you're getting that at.

He's a great GM that makes great moves, but still makes some bad decisions from time to time. He's human, much to the disappointment of some people.
Exactly. I love Shero, but he's bound to mess up. Every GM makes mistakes. Shero happens to make a lot of positive moves too, but making mistakes and bad trades/draft picks are part of the job. He deserves all the credit in the world for his positives, but some people can't get so caught up about his mistakes. Every GM makes mistakes, and most GM's make mistakes way more often than Shero.

Take a look at Glen Sather. I don't personally like what he does, but for every terrible Free Agent signing, he as an amazing trade (Gomez for McDonaugh) Mistakes are bound to be made and GM's know that, team Owners know that. But Shero is a good GM because of how many great moves he makes, to outweigh the negative moves he has made.

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04-04-2013, 08:59 PM
  #102
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When did I ever say this? I don't like the pick, but it's not a failure yet. I never said that.

The two players I did say were mistakes to add to the team are pretty much widely considered to be true. Morrow hasn't looked like he is a guy you give up Joe Morrow for, and Glass sucks. They really aren't even debatable. You can believe otherwise, but I will still think you're wrong.
Morrow looks like overpayment, but we really need to wait and see how it plays out. It likely will never look like a good trade purely based on price, but if Morrow helps us win a Cup I think I'm ok with an overpayment.

Glass sucks. But if Tanner Glass for 1.1M dollars is one of your biggest mistakes, you're doing a damn good job. When this team is healthy, he shouldn't even be playing. Its a mistake that he's more than covered up and he can probably just buy him out of it looks like it will be causing a real issue in the offseason.

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04-04-2013, 09:06 PM
  #103
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Where is No Wingers at?
His new screen name is "Wingerz." I've seen him around...

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04-04-2013, 09:10 PM
  #104
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I NEVER once doubted Shero... Now the Disco-Dolt on the other hand I am still VERY worried about!

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04-04-2013, 09:20 PM
  #105
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Morrow looks like overpayment, but we really need to wait and see how it plays out. It likely will never look like a good trade purely based on price, but if Morrow helps us win a Cup I think I'm ok with an overpayment.

Glass sucks. But if Tanner Glass for 1.1M dollars is one of your biggest mistakes, you're doing a damn good job. When this team is healthy, he shouldn't even be playing. Its a mistake that he's more than covered up and he can probably just buy him out of it looks like it will be causing a real issue in the offseason.
Exactly, and you're right time will tell. I'm simply judging it right now based on what I see. If he ends up turning things around and doing what you hope he does, then of course I'll agree with that statement.

I'll throw in signing Tyler Kennedy, although that's somewhat a hindsight thing too.

Trading for Poni, even though the price to acquire him was not really anything notable.

We really could use a defender like Scuderi too, and we let him walk.

We didn't prioritize signing Malone and let him walk when he was also a good player for us.

I know the circumstances sometimes dictate these things, and obviously none of them were make or break, but this is what he gets paid to do. Again, he's a great GM, and I wouldn't want anybody else running this team, but he does make mistakes too.

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04-04-2013, 09:23 PM
  #106
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This year deadline was great, and he just proved that he has huge balls and is willing to pull the trigger to make this team better. I love the Iginla move...I love the Jokinen move. The Murray move I thought was good, but even when we did make that trade, I wanted to see what Regehr would fetch. I would have rather had Regehr and the price he came at than Murray.

The Morrow trade...I'm neutral on. That's a lot to give up for a guy like Morrow, but fact is, we needed a guy like him. We'll see how that one works out.

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04-04-2013, 09:23 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Exactly, and you're right time will tell. I'm simply judging it right now based on what I see. If he ends up turning things around and doing what you hope he does, then of course I'll agree with that statement.
ya, I get what you're saying. Its a lot to pay for the guy. Shero obviously believes Veteran Presence has some legitimate value that makes Morrow worth paying more for than getting a guy like Clowe. That and potentially believing it would help entice Iginla to make a big name splash early. That part is obviously speculation, but its hard to look at the Iginla situation without thinking there was some game playing going on. I fully believe Shero knew (or at least believed) he could offer less than Boston and still get him.

I don't think even RRP thinks Shero makes no mistakes. But he believes (and I do too) that those mistakes are small (glass), fixable(glass/Michalek) or understandable risks (morrow)

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04-04-2013, 09:31 PM
  #108
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I've said it before. Shero to me is this organization's MVP. It's absolutely impossible to win every trade or every draft or every free agency period. But he has made some simply spectacular unreal trades, solid drafts, and beautiful contract signings. To me the organization Shero has built is the co-MVP of this era of the Pens (with Sid, but in some ways even more important ... the only thing is I believe Sid made it possible). Penguins fans are very, very, lucky.

Long, long, may shero reign, even if his love for Db occasionally grates on me still.

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04-04-2013, 09:33 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
I NEVER once doubted Shero... Now the Disco-Dolt on the other hand I am still VERY worried about!
Amen!!!

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04-04-2013, 09:40 PM
  #110
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i don't buy the rhetoric of those saying they are "simply judging it right now based on what I see" with regards to the Morrow trade. unless you were watching all of J. Morrows WBS games or were privy to his value around the league i find it disingenuous to claim the move was absoltuely one of two mistakes Shero has made.

i'm with JTG - i'm neutral until i actually see how things play out. it was a steep price, but its arguable that this teams biggest weakness over the years has been composure. B. Morrow hasn't been playing well but this is the guy who stripped the C off Modano's sweater - there appears to be a reason that the price for Morrow and the price for Clowe were so different. some armchair GMs can't wrap their heads around it, while others are willing to watch what happens.

still, i'm willing to admit that it does sting to see homeboy Saad pot his eighth of the year.

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04-04-2013, 09:47 PM
  #111
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He's probably top 5, but signings like Glass leave me puzzled.

Good to see the coach getting trashed after a two game losing streak that followed a 15 game win streak.

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04-04-2013, 09:49 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
He's probably top 5, but signings like Glass leave me puzzled.

Good to see the coach getting trashed after a two game losing streak that followed a 15 game win streak.
He has only dressed three centers in each of the last two games. He literally played Tyler Kennedy as a top 6 center for an entire game. When that failed miserably, he switched him to third line center. I'm sorry, but those decisions should not be made by an NHL head coach.

Not saying he's a bad NHL head coach. I'm saying he makes some unbelievably bad decisions mixed in with all of the obvious good things he does that allow the team to win 15 straight games.

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04-04-2013, 09:54 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Sure Shero hasn't been perfect, but he's done pretty darn well for us.

But seriously, can we stop acting like missing out on Semin was such a bad thing? I mean really, this can't be good for a locker room.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,118770

I'm pretty sure had the Pens obtained Semin, both would have let bygones be bygones much more than some around here seem to be able to do. Esp since Crosby has worked hard to become a different player since then and Semin has noted that on occasions.



As for the topic at hand I think Shero has done well enough. I'm not sure if he's the best GM ever or whatever and he has had some easy tasks, but I think he's done well keeping the team below the cap while still competitive and having to deal with some key players leaving/injured. Are there some question marks, sure, but that could be said for many teams.

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04-04-2013, 10:00 PM
  #114
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Shero did stick to his guns on the Staal trade under tough circumstances. Now the 8th pick was the guy they had as the best pick. Morrow trade was defensive. Keep him for another contender. He is washed up. Iginla wanted to play with Sid, Shero met the minimum. Murray was a good trade as he is more valuable to the Pens than the Sharks. So the only trade that didn't have significant bidders was Murray. He IMHO was generous but that was the market. So with all the moves, it still comes down the the health of Crosby. Shero has done what the mandate is this year, win the cup. If the Pens have a bad playoff again, Everything Shero has done to get to this point is out the window. Do I think Shero is in trouble if the Pens tank, depends on Mario. He Shero convinced the brass to bring the coaching staff back after the Philly playoffs. I will suggest this, if Montreal goes to the cup final, Shero may be in trouble and Bylsma will certainly be gone in any event.

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04-04-2013, 10:08 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
I NEVER once doubted Shero... Now the Disco-Dolt on the other hand I am still VERY worried about!
You do know who hired and has not fired DB, right?

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04-04-2013, 10:17 PM
  #116
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He has only dressed three centers in each of the last two games. He literally played Tyler Kennedy as a top 6 center for an entire game. When that failed miserably, he switched him to third line center. I'm sorry, but those decisions should not be made by an NHL head coach.

Not saying he's a bad NHL head coach. I'm saying he makes some unbelievably bad decisions mixed in with all of the obvious good things he does that allow the team to win 15 straight games.
The way the team played yesterday, it wouldn't have mattered where Kennedy played. He tried an experiment with a key player out, it didn't work, and he won't go back to it again.

Regardless, the pouting had already started DURING the Buffalo game. There are legit gripes, with Kennedy being one of them, but they're wiped out when the sentiment is that he's essentially the worst coach in the League.

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04-04-2013, 10:29 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
The way the team played yesterday, it wouldn't have mattered where Kennedy played. He tried an experiment with a key player out, it didn't work, and he won't go back to it again.

Regardless, the pouting had already started DURING the Buffalo game. There are legit gripes, with Kennedy being one of them, but they're wiped out when the sentiment is that he's essentially the worst coach in the League.
No, clearly it wouldn't have mattered, but that doesn't give Bylsma a free pass though.

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04-04-2013, 10:42 PM
  #118
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Seems another self congratulatory Pens thread ahead of its time to me.
I like Shero a lot for sure, and clearly he showed once again that when he has options and decides to go for it, he can really land his priorities.

But it IS about results, and this years post-season will mean a lot also for Shero. More so for Bylsma who has been given pretty much a dream roster, but he is Shero's guy. Dan has no excuses but to succeed (go REALLY deep) this year, but if he does not, that will also reflect on his boss.

Not trying to be Debbie Downer, but Disco scares me as much as he did before the season started.

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04-04-2013, 10:56 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Seems another self congratulatory Pens thread ahead of its time to me.
I like Shero a lot for sure, and clearly he showed once again that when he has options and decides to go for it, he can really land his priorities.

But it IS about results, and this years post-season will mean a lot also for Shero. More so for Bylsma who has been given pretty much a dream roster, but he is Shero's guy. Dan has no excuses but to succeed (go REALLY deep) this year, but if he does not, that will also reflect on his boss.

Not trying to be Debbie Downer, but Disco scares me as much as he did before the season started.
Shero's job is safe. I would have argued otherwise at the start of the season, and I thought the Morrow and Murray moves did nothing to change my stance.

However, the second he landed Iginla, he secured his job. I don't see how Mario and/or Burkle could look at the roster after an early elimination and say "We lost because our lineup sucked"

Unless Shero is one of those tragically loyal guys who doesn't care a lick about self preservation, Bylsma will be gone.

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04-04-2013, 11:52 PM
  #120
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For all his recent moves to make the Pens stronger, the team could go out and be worse than it would have been had Shero done nothing. To me that's hockey. It 's not just that any GM is going to make mistakes. Any GM is going to make the right decisions that still don't work out.

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04-05-2013, 02:27 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Shero's job is safe. I would have argued otherwise at the start of the season, and I thought the Morrow and Murray moves did nothing to change my stance.

However, the second he landed Iginla, he secured his job. I don't see how Mario and/or Burkle could look at the roster after an early elimination and say "We lost because our lineup sucked"

Unless Shero is one of those tragically loyal guys who doesn't care a lick about self preservation, Bylsma will be gone.
I agree. This post-season surely isn't about Shero's job, but if you and I and other critical ******** end up as frustrated with Bylsma when the playoffs are over as we've been most every year since the Cup, then chances are that we'd have to question how he came to beat the record for longest tenure on the Pens bench.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but I would not be surprised in the least if we get to see this in game 1 of the playoffs - Martin permitting:

Kunitz Sid Duper
Neal Malkin Iginla
Morrow Sutter Jokinen
Glass Adams Kennedy

Orpik Martin
Murray Letang
Eaton Nisky

...and if we lose out (arguably) because of no chemistry, not using our best lineup and an opposing coach running rings around Dan.... well, you know....

I hope the above is very wrong, of course.

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04-05-2013, 05:28 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Crozbar View Post
For all his recent moves to make the Pens stronger, the team could go out and be worse than it would have been had Shero done nothing. To me that's hockey. It 's not just that any GM is going to make mistakes. Any GM is going to make the right decisions that still don't work out.
Agree here. While clearly you make that Iginla deal ten times out of ten, there is some inherent risk in trying to fix something that wasn't broken. One would assume adding more good players can only help but team dynamics are a funny thing. It's not fantasy hockey. There's a lot of floating pieces to fit in different spots now and it's a major challenge for Bylsma to figure out and not much time to do it. Some good players could get demoted or benched and it could be the wrong call.

It's possible Shero did too much at the deadline. I think he'll be open to that criticism if things don't go well.

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04-05-2013, 05:52 AM
  #123
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I'm not so sure I'd give as much praise to Shero as some of you give him.

Let's be honest, we only got Iginla because Jarome wanted to come here and he jinxed the trade with Boston. If not for him doing that, Boston would've gotten Iginla. Shero basically offered an underwhelming package however overpaid for 2 pluggers like Morrow & Murray.

In the past year:
I Love the Iginla trade (which he lucked out on only because Iginla was stubborn and jonxed the deal to the Bruins).
Love the Jokinen trade.
Love the Staal deal (however he messed it up by not drafting Forsberg. I like DePo but we can all argue the pick).
Like the Vokoun acquisition.

Hate what he paid for Murray & Morrow.
Hate the Glass signing, thus far.
Michalek deal was laughable.
No comment on wasting time with the Boychuk experiment.
Unhappy with losing Brian Strait for nothing.



Overall, I think he's been underwhelming.

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04-05-2013, 08:07 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
I'm not so sure I'd give as much praise to Shero as some of you give him.

Let's be honest, we only got Iginla because Jarome wanted to come here and he jinxed the trade with Boston. If not for him doing that, Boston would've gotten Iginla. Shero basically offered an underwhelming package however overpaid for 2 pluggers like Morrow & Murray.

In the past year:
I Love the Iginla trade (which he lucked out on only because Iginla was stubborn and jonxed the deal to the Bruins).
Love the Jokinen trade.
Love the Staal deal (however he messed it up by not drafting Forsberg. I like DePo but we can all argue the pick).
Like the Vokoun acquisition.

Hate what he paid for Murray & Morrow.
Hate the Glass signing, thus far.
Michalek deal was laughable.
No comment on wasting time with the Boychuk experiment.
Unhappy with losing Brian Strait for nothing.


Overall, I think he's been underwhelming.
Again, the Michalek trade was a salary dump. It was made with the intention of clearing cap space for Parise. We ended up not getting him, but that space that was opened up has since been put to good use anyway. So to say you loved the Iginla/Jokinen/Vokoun deals but hated the Michalek deal doesn't really make any sense because they kind of go hand-in-hand.

As for Boychuk, I don't really see how such a completely risk-free, harmless experiment is something to hold against Shero. He took a shot at something and it didn't work. Unfortunate, but no harm done.

The other criticisms are fair, even though I don't agree with all of them. I like the Murray deal and I think it's too early to tell about the Morrow deal. I do agree that losing Strait for nothing and signing Glass were both bad moves though.

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04-05-2013, 08:13 AM
  #125
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The way the team played yesterday, it wouldn't have mattered where Kennedy played. He tried an experiment with a key player out, it didn't work, and he won't go back to it again.
You're absolutely right. That doesn't change the fact that it was an absolutely terrible coaching decision. Experiment or not, how doesn't he have a 4th center in the line-up somewhere? Jeffrey and Vitale were each scratched one of those games. Both are more than capable of playing 4th line wing until the TK experiment inevitably failed.

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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Regardless, the pouting had already started DURING the Buffalo game. There are legit gripes, with Kennedy being one of them, but they're wiped out when the sentiment is that he's essentially the worst coach in the League.
Oh, for sure. The full on meltdown and hate is too much. Bylsma has done a lot this year to make me like him more than I had previously. And even before that, it was obvious that he does a lot of things right.

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