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Vancouver offered Luongo for Scrivens + two 2nd rounders.

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Old
04-04-2013, 10:37 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by TheGooooch View Post
Clearly he is not wanted for the price Van wants, otherwise he would have been traded. They can hope the market changes in the summer but I don't see it
Nobody sees it except Gillis and a handful of delusional Canuck fans on HF..

The reasonable Canuck fans seem to realize that if they want to trade Luongo, its going to be for virtually nothing.


Gillis continually calling Nonis back several times as the deadline approached, just speaks to his desperation.


People claiming Dreger is unreliable, are unreliable.. Him and McKenzie are two of the best in the business and don't have jobs if not for their credibility...

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Old
04-04-2013, 10:39 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
How did you know no other GM matched the rumored price? Perhaps the Canucks did not want to trade within the division or conference and being forced to face Luongo's stellar goaltending for the next 5 years and rather wait to ship him out to the East? Are you the new Eklund making all these assumptions about Luongo's value and interest around the league?

How feeble of you to make assumptions after assumptions in order to come to your point, which is also invalid.

However, if Gillis did offer this deal, Nonis would be an idiot to have rejected it. To receive a top 10 goaltender with most likely 4+ years of elite goaltending left for 2 2nd round picks and a career backup? Remember, the Leafs are the most profitable franchise in the league, to eat up the rest of Luongo's contract over 10 years is definitely not a problem. Those two picks will likely result into fringe/depth players with multiple years of development, effort and time invested into the prospects.

I understand that Leaf fans want to defend their own GM, but if this rumored deal is true, then Nonis screwed up. He could have solved an agonizing black hole in the Leafs organization that lasted for nearly a decade by trading two draft picks that weren't even first rounders.
First of all, Luongo isn't top ten. Check the numbers.

Second, this doesn't really have ANYTHING to do with Toronto. Not a single team in the entire league would even match that Scrivens/plus/plus deal. Making up stuff about these other great deals on the table that Gillis rejected because they were within the conference or whatever is just you making up crap. And you're accusing Toronto fans of being defensive and defending Nonis? Come on. You're a shining example of why everyone hates the Canucks.

Third, look at the numbers. Again. Goaltending is not a big black hole for the Leafs right now. Reimer has been very good again this year, getting back to his breakout performances a couple of years ago (although the injury knocked him off stride for a bit). Scrivens has performed very well, too, proving he can at least be an NHL backup. Acting like the Leafs have this huge problem in net is just ridiculous. The goaltending situation in Toronto is far, far, far better than the clown show that Gillis has orchestrated in Vancouver.

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04-04-2013, 10:43 PM
  #553
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I am personally glad nonis turned down the deal, I will not deny that Luongo is a solid goalie and would have been an upgrade for the leafs, but bottom line here is like Lu himself said, the contract sucks, plain and simple and it brings Luongos trade value down very significantly. He isnt unmovable by any means, and he will still likely be moved this summer, but the asking price still needs to come down before a team takes on the contract.

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04-04-2013, 10:46 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
First of all, Luongo isn't top ten. Check the numbers.

Second, this doesn't really have ANYTHING to do with Toronto. Not a single team in the entire league would even match that Scrivens/plus/plus deal. Making up stuff about these other great deals on the table that Gillis rejected because they were within the conference or whatever is just you making up crap. And you're accusing Toronto fans of being defensive and defending Nonis? Come on. You're a shining example of why everyone hates the Canucks.

Third, look at the numbers. Again. Goaltending is not a big black hole for the Leafs right now. Reimer has been very good again this year, getting back to his breakout performances a couple of years ago (although the injury knocked him off stride for a bit). Scrivens has performed very well, too, proving he can at least be an NHL backup. Acting like the Leafs have this huge problem in net is just ridiculous. The goaltending situation in Toronto is far, far, far better than the clown show that Gillis has orchestrated in Vancouver.
Rinne isn't a top 10 goalie, look at the numbers! Nazem Kadri is a top 10 forward! Look at the numbers son! - uninformed Leaf fan

I didn't read any of the lower parts, your first sentence makes you sound foolish and a statistical geek.

EDIT: HF gets worse and worse... go figure.

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04-04-2013, 10:53 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by tml145 View Post
LOL

Nonis is trolling Vancouver for firing him
Whatever! MG is going to have stew over this for a couple of more months

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Old
04-04-2013, 10:55 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by MentalPowerHouse View Post
Ok so Vancouver are only willing to trade him to half the league... thats still half the league that didn't match or exceed what Toronto was asked for (assuming rumour was true).

I am not making any assumption, you are. The fact is 0 teams traded for Loungo. 0 teams. I repeat again, 0 teams. I don't see how bashing Toronto for not trading for Luongo is at all reasonable when 0 teams traded for Luongo.

The ability to pay the contract is not the issue. The fact is the Leafs have to operate within a salary cap like all teams.

If Luongo is so elite as you claim, why are the Canucks trying to trade him?
0 teams traded for Vanek! 0 teams traded for Riberio! 0 teams traded for Elias!

A terrible rebuttal.

I'm bashing the Leafs if the hypothetical offer was on the table, so this criticism is all hypothetically speaking. Likewise, if Tampa offered Hedman for Luongo or something ludicrous, then I would also claim Gillis would be an idiot to reject that offer.

How does that fact indicate anything? If you believe 5.3 M cap hit is a lot for a starting goaltender you need to get your head checked. Travis "second line center" Zajac got a 5.75M a year extension.

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04-04-2013, 10:56 PM
  #557
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Since I am a stats junkie apparantly, lets look at some career stats...

James Reimer (25 years old):

93 Games, 47 Wins, .913 SV%, 8 SO

12/13 Stats:

22 Games, 13 Wins, .920 SV%, 2 SO

Cory Schneider (27 years old)

90 games, 50 wins, .926 SV%, 7 SO

12/13 Stats:

22 Games, 12 Wins, .922 SV% 3 SO

I can agree that Schneiders careers stats are slightly better, but they are currently playing at the same level with Reimer being younger. I just don't buy any argument that Toronto should give up on Reimer and give up assets for a goalie with a brutal contract that was supplanted by essentially a very comparable goalie.

Schneider and Reimer are are essentially at the same level of play yet Vancouver should trade a "top 10 goalie" and Toronto should trade for one?


Last edited by MentalPowerHouse: 04-04-2013 at 11:21 PM.
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04-04-2013, 10:58 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Basically putting words in my mouth, oh well. A little sensitive subject I suppose.
Your post was definitely sarcastic. Who are you kidding?

Also, if you watched the game, Reimer bailed out the team multiple times. His stats are above and beyond what some people make them out to be.

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Old
04-04-2013, 11:00 PM
  #559
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Luongo is a good goalie, but his contact is just way too awful. Honestly, the Nucks may never be able to trade him, I won't be shocked if they're forced to just buy him out. With Reimer playing like a legit starting goalie, I wouldn't take Luongo for free.

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04-04-2013, 11:01 PM
  #560
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just for arguments sake, which of these guys is Luongo better than?

Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Rask
Miller
Schneider
Fleury
Price
Anderson
Backstrom
Howard
Ward
Halak

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Old
04-04-2013, 11:02 PM
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
0 teams traded for Vanek! 0 teams traded for Riberio! 0 teams traded for Elias!

A terrible rebuttal.

I'm bashing the Leafs if the hypothetical offer was on the table, so this criticism is all hypothetically speaking. Likewise, if Tampa offered Hedman for Luongo or something ludicrous, then I would also claim Gillis would be an idiot to reject that offer.

How does that fact indicate anything? If you believe 5.3 M cap hit is a lot for a starting goaltender you need to get your head checked. Travis "second line center" Zajac got a 5.75M a year extension.
Zajac isn't 33 and signed for 9 more years. He's 27 and signed for 8 more. Huge difference.

Luongo signed for 3 or 4 more years is a valued asset. A lot can happen to a 33 year old over the next 9 years.


Luongo is a good goalie with a horribly unattractive contract. I'm not sure why that's so difficult for some to grasp.

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Old
04-04-2013, 11:06 PM
  #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
0 teams traded for Vanek! 0 teams traded for Riberio! 0 teams traded for Elias!

A terrible rebuttal.

I'm bashing the Leafs if the hypothetical offer was on the table, so this criticism is all hypothetically speaking. Likewise, if Tampa offered Hedman for Luongo or something ludicrous, then I would also claim Gillis would be an idiot to reject that offer.

How does that fact indicate anything? If you believe 5.3 M cap hit is a lot for a starting goaltender you need to get your head checked. Travis "second line center" Zajac got a 5.75M a year extension.
Yup 0 teams traded for those players, and 0 teams traded for Luongo. So we both agree, no teams agreed to the asking price. So yeah if you want to pick out 1 team in the league to bash for not trading for them I will again point that 0 teams traded for them so its unreasonable to bash 1 team.

Again if the hypothetical deal was on the table, and the leafs declined, then hypothetically no team matched or surpassed the deal either.

5.3M is not alot for a starting goalie, its a lot for a backup which is what Luongo currently is.

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04-04-2013, 11:09 PM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalPowerHouse View Post
Since I am a stats junkie apparantly, lets look at some career stats...

James Reimer (25 years old):

93 Games, 47 Wins, .913 SV%, 8 SO

12/13 Stats:

22 Games, 13 Wins, .920 SV%, 2 SO

Cory Schneider (27 years old)

90 games, 50 wins, .922 SV%, 7 SO

12/13 Stats:

22 Games, 12 Wins, .922 SV% 3 SO

I can agree that Schneiders careers stats are slightly better, but they are currently playing at the same level with Reimer being younger. I just don't buy any argument that Toronto should give up on Reimer and give up assets for a goalie with a brutal contract that was supplanted by essentially a very comparable goalie.

Schneider and Reimer are are essentially at the same level of play yet Vancouver should trade a "top 10 goalie" and Toronto should trade for one?
Sorry man, logic isn't welcome here.


Those numbers are actually pretty surprising.. Especially considering the contrast in teams in front of them for the most part. The Leafs were a bottom 5 team until this year..


I'm just not sure why Gillis doesn't take one of the offers from the other '4-5' teams? Probably because they don't exist and that's why he called Nonis back 3 times in the last hour before the deadline with a refined offer..


He's desperate to move him and needs to just admit it. Cut your losses and turn the page. Stop trying to save face and make a 'hockey deal' ... It ain't happening.

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04-04-2013, 11:12 PM
  #564
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In Conclusion

So the summary of this thread is the Canucks should just trade Schneider and keep Luongo and that TO and Van City should not trade with each other because neither understand the value of the others assets.

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04-04-2013, 11:13 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by LEAFMAN99 View Post
just for arguments sake, which of these guys is Luongo better than?

Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Rask
Miller
Schneider
Fleury
Price
Anderson
Backstrom
Howard
Ward
Halak
Ben Scrivens

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04-04-2013, 11:13 PM
  #566
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Either Dreger is full of **** or Nonis is a piece of ****.

Either way, that family are a bunch of losers sucking on Brian Burke's man teats. Nonis has never been hired by anyone other than Brian Burke and Dreger has made his pathetic career by being Nonis' cousin.

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04-04-2013, 11:14 PM
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFMAN99 View Post
just for arguments sake, which of these guys is Luongo better than?

Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Rask
Miller
Schneider
Fleury
Price
Anderson
Backstrom
Howard
Ward
Halak
Tier 1: Quick, Lundqvist, Rinne, Rask, Price

Tier 2: Backstrom, Miller, Luongo, Schneider

Tier 3: Howard, Anderson, Fleury, Halak, Ward

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04-04-2013, 11:17 PM
  #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Quackenbush View Post
So the summary of this thread is the Canucks should just trade Schneider and keep Luongo and that TO and Van City should not trade with each other because neither understand the value of the others assets.
I just think its weird that there is so much hate on Toronto for not wanting a another teams player. I am only a casual reader of this board, so is this common? It just seems really bizarre?

Like OMG you don't want our spare part for your best assets? How dare you, I hate you!!

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04-04-2013, 11:18 PM
  #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalPowerHouse View Post
Since I am a stats junkie apparantly, lets look at some career stats...

James Reimer (25 years old):

93 Games, 47 Wins, .913 SV%, 8 SO

12/13 Stats:

22 Games, 13 Wins, .920 SV%, 2 SO

Cory Schneider (27 years old)

90 games, 50 wins, .922 SV%, 7 SO

12/13 Stats:

22 Games, 12 Wins, .922 SV% 3 SO

I can agree that Schneiders careers stats are slightly better, but they are currently playing at the same level with Reimer being younger. I just don't buy any argument that Toronto should give up on Reimer and give up assets for a goalie with a brutal contract that was supplanted by essentially a very comparable goalie.

Schneider and Reimer are are essentially at the same level of play yet Vancouver should trade a "top 10 goalie" and Toronto should trade for one?
Except you're wrong. Schneider's career save percentage is .926%.

And you left out the fact that Schneider has .940% in 8 playoff games. For a stat junkie, it's real bad when you cannot get a simple statistic correct.

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04-04-2013, 11:21 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
Except you're wrong. Schneider's career save percentage is .926%.

And you left out the fact that Schneider has .940% in 8 playoff games. For a stat junkie, it's real bad when you cannot get a simple statistic correct.
OMG you are right, .04 SV% makes all the difference!! Btw I don't claim to be stats junkie, thats you who makes the accusation. I corrected the post you can sleep easy tonight. Fact is their stats this year are pretty much equal, with Reimer being younger. If anything Toronto is a more offensive team, and less defensive, than Vancouver, so please stop with the Kesler injury excuses.


Last edited by MentalPowerHouse: 04-04-2013 at 11:26 PM.
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04-04-2013, 11:27 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Zajac isn't 33 and signed for 9 more years. He's 27 and signed for 8 more. Huge difference.

Luongo signed for 3 or 4 more years is a valued asset. A lot can happen to a 33 year old over the next 9 years.


Luongo is a good goalie with a horribly unattractive contract. I'm not sure why that's so difficult for some to grasp.
It's a horrible contract for a team who isn't ready to compete or is not in the financial situation to absorb his contract. Leafs do not fit either criteria. Fact is, Zajac is an average second line center making nearly 6M. A 5.3M starting goalie is nothing substantial when you put the contract into perspective.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalPowerHouse View Post
Yup 0 teams traded for those players, and 0 teams traded for Luongo. So we both agree, no teams agreed to the asking price. So yeah if you want to pick out 1 team in the league to bash for not trading for them I will again point that 0 teams traded for them so its unreasonable to bash 1 team.

Again if the hypothetical deal was on the table, and the leafs declined, then hypothetically no team matched or surpassed the deal either.

5.3M is not alot for a starting goalie, its a lot for a backup which is what Luongo currently is.
I just proved that it is wrong to hypothetically claim that no team matched or surpassed the deal either. Another assumption that you have made, when I have repeatedly called you out on it. There may have been teams with better offers or offers that are as good, but the Canucks do not want to face Luongo for the next 5 years in the same division. Additionally, no other teams may have matched the price or surpassed because they are not ready to compete and cannot absorb the contract. The Leafs do not fit either criteria as I have stated above, they CAN absorb the contract with ease and are eager to get in the playoffs.

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04-04-2013, 11:35 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by MentalPowerHouse View Post
OMG you are right, .04 SV% makes all the difference!! Btw I don't claim to be stats junkie, thats you who makes the accusation. I corrected the post you can sleep easy tonight. Fact is their stats this year are pretty much equal, with Reimer being younger. If anything Toronto is a more offensive team, and less defensive, than Vancouver, so please stop with the Kesler injury excuses.
Kesler being out for the majority of the year is not an excuse, it is a reason. How many Leafs have won the Selke in the past 15 years? Canucks had a .926% save percentage last year with the same defensive core (Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis), and this season they have a .913% team save percentage this year. Did both Luongo and Schneider magically drop 13 points? If you have watched any Canuck game, the defense has been playing poorly and we are without Kesler. Goalies have saved us from at least half the games this season.

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04-04-2013, 11:36 PM
  #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFMAN99 View Post
just for arguments sake, which of these guys is Luongo better than?

Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Rask
Miller
Schneider
Fleury
Price
Anderson
Backstrom
Howard
Ward
Halak
Reimer

Scrivens

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Old
04-04-2013, 11:36 PM
  #574
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Originally Posted by Jaguars Fan View Post
Reimer

Scrivens
Reimer

Scrivens

Gustavsson

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04-04-2013, 11:38 PM
  #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
I just proved that it is wrong to hypothetically claim that no team matched or surpassed the deal either. Another assumption that you have made, when I have repeatedly called you out on it. There may have been teams with better offers or offers that are as good, but the Canucks do not want to face Luongo for the next 5 years in the same division. Additionally, no other teams may have matched the price or surpassed because they are not ready to compete and cannot absorb the contract. The Leafs do not fit either criteria as I have stated above, they CAN absorb the contract with ease and are eager to get in the playoffs.
Aren't you the one assuming that a small handful of teams within Division, or even half the teams in the league, would have matched or exceeded the deal but Vancouver declined? Half the league is in another conference, and 0 of those teams traded for Luongo. You are the one assuming they had better offers within division but declined. I am not bashing Vancouver for not trading him, I am just defending Toronto for not trading for him.

Just because they can absorb a contract does not mean they should, and you are the one assuming adding Luongo would impact their making the playoffs odds.

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