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Vancouver offered Luongo for Scrivens + two 2nd rounders.

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Old
04-05-2013, 12:27 AM
  #601
Numbers
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Originally Posted by MentalPowerHouse View Post
Where did I suggest that? As far I know I have not.
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Originally Posted by MentalPowerHouse View Post
I didn't deny that Toronto Wanted Kipper as a backup/mentor, or can you not read?
Well you just said here that you did not deny Toronto wanted Kipper as backup/mentor. Kipper has a 5.8 million dollar cap hit.

Add two and two together and voila.

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04-05-2013, 12:28 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by LEAFMAN99 View Post
just for arguments sake, which of these guys is Luongo better than?

Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Rask
Miller
Schneider
Fleury
Price
Anderson
Backstrom
Howard
Ward
Halak
based on overall body of work Halak Howard, Rask, Backstrom and an argument can be made for Miller

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04-05-2013, 12:29 AM
  #603
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based on overall body of work Halak Howard, Rask, Backstrom and an argument can be made for Miller
And Fleury and Ward... definitely.

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04-05-2013, 12:30 AM
  #604
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Well you just said here that you did not deny Toronto wanted Kipper as backup/mentor. Kipper has a 5.8 million dollar cap hit.

Add two and two together and voila.
He's contradicting his own statements, and trying to produce a legitimate argument. Getting no where...

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04-05-2013, 12:30 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
based on overall body of work Halak Howard, Rask, Backstrom and an argument can be made for Miller
What do you mean by "overall body of work"?

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04-05-2013, 12:37 AM
  #606
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After the initial anger and frustration of not being able to move lu, i've calmed down a bit and think the canucks could potentially get a better deal at the draft. It might be the best time to deal him then. Depending on how the canucks do in the playoffs, if they fail, they may make a bit of an overhaul.
From who? Florida has a great prospect on the cusp in Markstrom. If Reimer's play is solid, Toronto doesn't have a 'need' for Lu. Tampa just picked up Bishop. Chicago has Crawford (and I can't see Vancouver trading an all-star goalie to an arch rival).

One of the few teams I could see Luongo going to would be Edmonton (a young team with a need for an established goalie). With Philly picking up Mason, you have to wonder what they're thinking. If they buy out Bryz, (something like a 27m cheque to write) then would they really want to get another goalie with a long contract?

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04-05-2013, 12:39 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
From who? Florida has a great prospect on the cusp in Markstrom. If Reimer's play is solid, Toronto doesn't have a 'need' for Lu. Tampa just picked up Bishop. Chicago has Crawford (and I can't see Vancouver trading an all-star goalie to an arch rival).

One of the few teams I could see Luongo going to would be Edmonton (a young team with a need for an established goalie). With Philly picking up Mason, you have to wonder what they're thinking. If they buy out Bryz, (something like a 27m cheque to write) then would they really want to get another goalie with a long contract?
Would Philly give #1 job to Steve Mason if they buyout Bryzgalov?

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04-05-2013, 12:40 AM
  #608
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I honestly wonder if Vancouver will buy out Luongo at the end of the year if his contract is that much of an obstacle to getting him out of there. If you can't deal that contract, than he's just a 5.5 million dollar bench warmer. I'd rather have the cap space to the assets.

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04-05-2013, 12:42 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
From who? Florida has a great prospect on the cusp in Markstrom. If Reimer's play is solid, Toronto doesn't have a 'need' for Lu. Tampa just picked up Bishop. Chicago has Crawford (and I can't see Vancouver trading an all-star goalie to an arch rival).

One of the few teams I could see Luongo going to would be Edmonton (a young team with a need for an established goalie). With Philly picking up Mason, you have to wonder what they're thinking. If they buy out Bryz, (something like a 27m cheque to write) then would they really want to get another goalie with a long contract?
Florida, Toronto, Devils, Islanders, Edmonton, Flyers, Red Wings (if Howard leaves), Washington and Chicago could be possible destinations. And I also can't imagine Carolina is very satisfied with Ward.

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04-05-2013, 12:44 AM
  #610
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I honestly wonder if Vancouver will buy out Luongo at the end of the year if his contract is that much of an obstacle to getting him out of there. If you can't deal that contract, than he's just a 5.5 million dollar bench warmer. I'd rather have the cap space to the assets.
Several posters on HFBoards regarding Scott Gomez: You can't deal that contract! Untradeable! Worst contract in the NHL! You are nuts if you think anyone will take on that atrocity!

If Gillis wanted to ship Luongo off for next to nothing, the trade would have already been completed.

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04-05-2013, 12:47 AM
  #611
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I don't see any team wanting Luongo unless the Canucks eat a portion of his salary. That's the reality of his contract.
His contract isn't a huge issue in and of itself. He gets paid 6.7m most of the duration of the contract. However his cap hit is 5.3m. For an all-star goalie that's a great number. But it's definitely a contract for a rich team.

The issue is that there's 9 years remaining. With the new rules there's some concern that should he retire early that team will be on the hook for him not finishing his contract. Additionally, in the final years while only getting paid 1-3m, he still carries that 5.3m cap hit. If he's not performing as an allstar goalie, then that 5.3m hit is brutal.

So while that's all an issue... having the Canucks eat part of his contract doesn't solve any of those issues (other than perhaps the last couple of years, which really isn't the main issue).

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04-05-2013, 12:49 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
Several posters on HFBoards regarding Scott Gomez: You can't deal that contract! Untradeable! Worst contract in the NHL! You are nuts if you think anyone will take on that atrocity!

If Gillis wanted to ship Luongo off for next to nothing, the trade would have already been completed.
Are you really using a contract that was bought out as proof bad contracts can be traded?

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04-05-2013, 12:59 AM
  #613
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Florida, Toronto, Devils, Islanders, Edmonton, Flyers, Red Wings (if Howard leaves), Washington and Chicago could be possible destinations. And I also can't imagine Carolina is very satisfied with Ward.
Florida - has a young very promising goalie in net. Absolutely no reason to give up any assets for Lu.
Toronto - same reasons. Their position either gets stronger or weaker depending on how JR performs this spring.
Devils - same as Florida, however Wedgewood is further behind. Could perhaps see them making a play
Islanders - you really think they'll go into another long contract while they have DiPietro?
Edmonton - Potentially a destionation
Flyers - again, long contract fear with Bryz and that's only if they buy him out
Chicago - Vancouvers arch rivals, and has a quality affordable netminder in Crawford
Carolina - Ward is under contract for 3 more years at 6m+. For a team thats so cash conscious, that they ate half of Jokinen's cap hit to avoid paying his full 3m salary next season.

So really... there's a couple potential destinations... and do you really think the offers will get better in June/July? In all honestly they'll likely be the same. A meh player/prospect and a pick or two. Especially with Toronto's offer leaking like this, and with everyone knowing that Vancouver must move him (less than 1m in cap space, 16 ppl signed), they don't have a lot of options. At some point they'll have to suck it up and move him for the best offer on the table. Or offer out Schneider... however I don't think anyone expects them to actually do this.

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04-05-2013, 01:04 AM
  #614
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Would Philly give #1 job to Steve Mason if they buyout Bryzgalov?
Probably not. He could play lights out and I still don't see a team completely trusting him without a larger sample size.

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04-05-2013, 01:16 AM
  #615
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From who? Florida has a great prospect on the cusp in Markstrom. If Reimer's play is solid, Toronto doesn't have a 'need' for Lu. Tampa just picked up Bishop. Chicago has Crawford (and I can't see Vancouver trading an all-star goalie to an arch rival).

One of the few teams I could see Luongo going to would be Edmonton (a young team with a need for an established goalie). With Philly picking up Mason, you have to wonder what they're thinking. If they buy out Bryz, (something like a 27m cheque to write) then would they really want to get another goalie with a long contract?
Why Edmonton? Dubnyk is top 10 in the league in GAA and SV% among goalies with 20 or more starts (ie, not backups). I don't see them adding huge salary and term to get an upgrade on Dubnyk.

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04-05-2013, 01:24 AM
  #616
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Anyone interested in opening a poll of who's better:

Reimer

Or

Schneider
No question, Schneider. Who ain't gonna be fetched for Scrivens and two 2nds.

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So Reimer is a Franchise goalie for the Maple Leafs?
That's what the Leafs are trying to determine. Obviously the jury is still out.

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So are you suggesting that Nonis wanted a backup/mentor with a 5.8 million dollar cap hit?
My guess is that Nonis was thinking of Kipper as a tweener. Someone who would start his share of games with Nonis hoping, once away from Calgary, Kiprusoff might get hot, in which case he supplants Reimer for the time being. However, if Miikka didn't recover his form, then he might come in handy as a good mentor to help James along. Personally I think Kipper is more the curmudgeon type than the mentor type, so I, and many other Leaf supporters, didn't like the idea.


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04-05-2013, 01:25 AM
  #617
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Gillis is such a hack. He clearly feels that moving Luongo is the best move for the team---indeed, doing so would be a huge boon for the team's offseason fortunes---and he clearly wanted to move Luongo, yet he still felt that he could demand a high price for him.

Not logical.

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04-05-2013, 01:31 AM
  #618
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Gillis is such a hack. He clearly feels that moving Luongo is the best move for the team---indeed, doing so would be a huge boon for the team's offseason fortunes---and he clearly wanted to move Luongo, yet he still felt that he could demand a high price for him.

Not logical.
Logic dictates that Gillis obviously feels we're better off with Luongo as insurance than whatever offers he's got now.

That'll probably change in the offseason, but until then, who knows?

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04-05-2013, 01:52 AM
  #619
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Gillis is such a hack. He clearly feels that moving Luongo is the best move for the team---indeed, doing so would be a huge boon for the team's offseason fortunes---and he clearly wanted to move Luongo, yet he still felt that he could demand a high price for him.

Not logical.
If you're only getting a couple of picks, there's no positive effect to this season by trading him. If anything, having him there to back up Schneids is better.

"a huge boon for the team's offseason fortunes" - could you elaborate on this point a bit? I'm confused what you mean here. Schneider is a great goalie and an understandable choice for the Canucks going forward..

"he still felt that he could demand a high price for him" - in a shortened season like this one, there are so many teams that are still in the hunt for a playoff spot. Gillis had a set price in mind and other teams would not succumb to this demand because of the uncertainty surrounding each team's standing in their respective conference.

I wanted Lu to be traded (really wanted to see him turn it around this season in Tampa Bay.. perfect environment for him), but we'll just have to wait.

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04-05-2013, 02:17 AM
  #620
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Why Edmonton? Dubnyk is top 10 in the league in GAA and SV% among goalies with 20 or more starts (ie, not backups). I don't see them adding huge salary and term to get an upgrade on Dubnyk.
He's 13th in GAA (2.50%), and 7th in SV% (.922). Decent, but nothing out of this world. Why would they consider it? For the same reason Toronto did. Lu is an allstar goalie, who still has at least 4-5 seasons left where he can continue that form. If Edmonton wants to take the next step, someone like Luongo could help push them over the top. Dubnyk hasn't been bad... but he hasn't been lights out amazing either.

The salary itself on a yearly basis isn't that bad. Besides, Katz is rich... if they could acquire Lu cheaply I could perhaps see them doing it.

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04-05-2013, 02:22 AM
  #621
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Gillis is such a hack. He clearly feels that moving Luongo is the best move for the team---indeed, doing so would be a huge boon for the team's offseason fortunes---and he clearly wanted to move Luongo, yet he still felt that he could demand a high price for him.

Not logical.
There was absolutely no reason to accept Toronto's offer at this point in time. None of those assets help Vancouver win this year (vs keeping Luongo). That type of trade is one that would happen on draft day.

But Vancouver absolutely MUST trade Luongo (or someone else with a high cap hit) this summer due to their cap situation. The logical person to move is Lu. Perhaps there's more of a market for him then (I don't think so... but who knows). But I doubt anyone will be giving up much more than what Toronto offered.

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04-05-2013, 03:35 AM
  #622
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Gillis played his hand and teams called his bluff he went all in with 2 of hearts and 3 of spades and everyone called him and he lost all of his chips.
i can say without hyperbole that this is the silliest analogy i've ever come across here. how does "keeping your star goaltender" equate to "losing all your chips"?

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04-05-2013, 04:20 AM
  #623
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There was absolutely no reason to accept Toronto's offer at this point in time. None of those assets help Vancouver win this year (vs keeping Luongo). That type of trade is one that would happen on draft day.

But Vancouver absolutely MUST trade Luongo (or someone else with a high cap hit) this summer due to their cap situation. The logical person to move is Lu. Perhaps there's more of a market for him then (I don't think so... but who knows). But I doubt anyone will be giving up much more than what Toronto offered.
THIS

not hard to figure. he's a ridiculous insurance ...

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04-05-2013, 04:24 AM
  #624
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He's 13th in GAA (2.50%), and 7th in SV% (.922). Decent, but nothing out of this world. Why would they consider it? For the same reason Toronto did. Lu is an allstar goalie, who still has at least 4-5 seasons left where he can continue that form. If Edmonton wants to take the next step, someone like Luongo could help push them over the top. Dubnyk hasn't been bad... but he hasn't been lights out amazing either.

The salary itself on a yearly basis isn't that bad. Besides, Katz is rich... if they could acquire Lu cheaply I could perhaps see them doing it.
No No No No No no no no no no no no no no

The entire reason Luongo is even leaving Vancouver is ONLY because he said he'd be willing to, to get to the east coast for his wife. That has been a huge issue with trading him. He wants to be at least within a time zone of Florida, where his wife lives and has her business.

He didn't demand a trade; just said Schneider could/should be a no. 1 and he didn't mind moving along.

Luongo is never going to Edmonton or anywhere on the west coast.

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04-05-2013, 04:33 AM
  #625
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And all the ridiculously ignorant and stupid comments laughing at this situation and at Gillis.

All he's doing is trying to get his best for Luongo. It hasn't come along yet.

You guys have NO idea what he's asked other than what equally ignorant Canuck fans have said. I've even had to argue with many of them that he's not yielding Joe star and a number 1 pick.

If Gillis couldn't trade Luongo for someone that could help the team immediately; he wasn't going to trade him. There's no point. Zero. Even with Luongo gone, the team can't hold salary. So why would we trade for it.

And those calling Gillis a "hack" or "soon to be unemployed" .... That's so naive and stupid.

It was Luongo that started everything by suggesting he'd rather leave than stay. He handcuffed Gillis the moment he said that.

Otherwise, the situation would have gone with Schneider being showcased all season and shipped off for a beauty return (like Conachar??).


Ultimately, Gillis is in a position where he's got a guy willing to go to about 8-10 teams, 6-8 of those teams have zero goalie needs, leaving only a couple places to call. He's going to take what he can get, or be totally content holding onto a great piece to have for a play-off run. It's not like Gillis was shedding a tear at the end of the day; his club is better for having not made a move at the deadline.

Luongo is the only one upset and let him be. He's the guy that opted for a huge contract only to say he'd be willing to move after it. If it wasn't for that, GMMG would be sitting pretty damn pretty trading off Schnieder for some damn sexy pieces.

So if you're going to type **** up in this thread like you have a clue, educate yourself on the situation first. Lu ****ed things up. We know the return isn't huge. We're okay with it. We'd rather keep him for this years playoffs and being a causality of the dropped cap and changes to the CBA are certainly no big deal.



PS. Everyone out of the Canuck's office has stated clearly that Dredger is purely ************ and/or speculating. And those suggesting it's a pr game. That is ridiculous. Why would anyone even bother. It sounds more like Dredger is trying to be the man. There's more motive there.

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